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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Back to the "interesting stat"
Jan 9, 2014, 2:44 PM
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What the Coot doesn't realize is that low SAT score is more of an indictment of the South Carolina public education system, and the public education systems of the South in general, and less of an indictment of either Clemson or South Carolina. We both draw a large number of recruits from impoverished areas, where generational poverty and ignorance is rampant.
So, the question now becomes, what do you do with football players who are behind from the start. At Clemson, these players start in the mentoring program. My wife was a mentor to a few Clemson players who went on to the NFL. They met with her once a week, discussed classes, upcoming tests, attendance, etc. Her basic job was to help them with time management. If they failed to show up for mentoring, she had to turn them in, and they were punished. If their teachers contacted her with a bad attendance report, or a bad report in general, they were in serious trouble. One fairly well known linebacker was terrified of my wife, because one bad word from her would mean punishment. Generally, each player missed one mentoring session and never missed again.
Next, Clemson has mandatory study hall with student tutors for at risk players. Players missing study hall was not common, as again, punishment was swift, and from what my football playing friends told me, terrible. I was room mates with an offensive linemen, he was a smart guy, but made some marginal grades in tough classes on semester and had to go to study hall the next semester. One day his car wouldn't start, and he was afraid of being late to study hall. I'm not sure I've ever seen a look of fear and desperation in a 300+ pounders eyes, as I did when he came to my room begging for a ride. My roommate ended his 5 year Clemson stay with a Masters degree.
So, yes, it isn't surprising that Clemson has players that start out behind the eight ball, but we manage to take these kids and not only get them through school, but prepare them for life after football. Does USCe do the same?
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Oculus Spirit [82043]
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Please don't cloud the idiots with truth. They're citing an
Jan 9, 2014, 2:50 PM
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article where the University of South Carolina conveniently didn't report back their data.
Only need to look at athletes like Cliff Hammonds and their academic success along with their athletic success at Clemson to know we care.
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Oculus Spirit [97149]
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Very well stated! I do feel compelled to ask one question..
Jan 9, 2014, 2:53 PM
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pics?
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Ehh, I posted a few on the jounge a while ago
Jan 9, 2014, 2:54 PM
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Soccercrazy can verify...he met her in person.
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Oculus Spirit [82043]
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Yup, gotta come to the junge tailgate to see.
Jan 9, 2014, 2:57 PM
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His wife is very pretty, a veterinarian, and a good girl...Drew must've threatened her or something to get her.
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Ring of Honor [26353]
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Pics or it didn't happen***
Jan 9, 2014, 2:58 PM
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Oculus Spirit [82043]
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That's how I got mine, started dating when we were 15.
Jan 9, 2014, 3:00 PM
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Internet high five.
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Ring of Honor [26353]
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^^^Look at the kewl kids high fiving each other***
Jan 9, 2014, 3:02 PM
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Jealous
Jan 9, 2014, 3:03 PM
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Sorry you keep getting stuffed in internet lockers.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Oculus Spirit [82043]
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I don't even have to admit I was 30.
Jan 9, 2014, 3:04 PM
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wut?
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Details, Details
Jan 9, 2014, 3:06 PM
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All that matters is you sealed the deal before the law caught up to you.
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Ring of Honor [26353]
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All-In [26968]
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We all know that all the big schools admit athletes
Jan 9, 2014, 2:55 PM
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Who would never sniff the university based on academic standards, if they couldn't make money for the university on the football field or basketball court.
Clemson, S. Carolina, all of 'em.
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Oculus Spirit [97149]
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It's very interesting that you use the phrases "academic
Jan 9, 2014, 2:57 PM
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standards" and "S. Carolina" in the same post.
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All-In [26968]
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They do have academic standards...
Jan 9, 2014, 2:58 PM
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Not as high as Clemson's, I believe, but they do have them. I would not have gotten into USC with an 850 SAT score.
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All-In [49613]
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Of course not! An 850 would intimidate their instructors.***
Jan 9, 2014, 3:02 PM
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Hall of Famer [23693]
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I shall render the interpretation for cootish interlopers.
Jan 9, 2014, 3:07 PM
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Rev is sayin' y'all teechuhs ain't brainiacs, yo.
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Heisman Winner [120341]
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Thats Vickery Hall
Jan 9, 2014, 2:57 PM
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funded by IPTAY!
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Enthusiast [115]
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Re: Back to the "interesting stat"
Jan 9, 2014, 3:04 PM
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Or could it be that you can get a Clemson degree with work like this:
"After begin a part of your class this spring help me to find many different way to write a paper or to formate a paper. When I pick the topic for my research paper why should student athletes get paid in college sports. The first essay was on the whole arugment of the paying of student athletes and different opinion from writers, coaches, and players. This help me to understand the different view points that everybody had about the topic. The second essay was for you to go deeper in the topic and to find more individuals that are not with it or people who agree. This essay was called literature review and it help to see the many different opinion that was out there. The third essay was my opinion about the topic and how I felt about everyone else opinion on the topic. My opinion is that I believe that student athletes should get paid for what they do for the university and the lack of time they have to their self. A couple of reasons why should student athletes should get paid: lack of time, athletes help the university to make money, athletes have low income families, and can't get a part time job. Reason why to pay student athletes is Pell Grants, they get schalorships, and they have a chance to get a degree, to go to the pro's, or both.
The overall view of the class, this class really help me a lot in many different areas with my writing skills. Giving us freewrites 1 2 3 which give us the chance to vioce our opinion on different topic help me to write little better never time. I just want to thank you for a exciting spring and hope to have you as a teacher in the future."
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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So, if you get past the grammar
Jan 9, 2014, 3:12 PM
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This is obviously from an intro English class. How you have access to a Clemson football players intro English class paper (if it actually is a Clemson players paper) is ethically dubious at best.
So, anyway, we have established that these players start off behind. However, actually looking at the summary shows a progression of ideas. He lists a thesis statement: College athletes should be paid. He then lists 3 supporting facts for his statement, which he can use as the body of his paper.
This shows the student has a firm grasp of the writing process, and again, while grammatically terrible, the ideas he presents would make for a solid paper and shows an understanding of the writing process in general, which is the goal of an intro English class.
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Orange Blooded [3933]
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This also may be a first draft.
Jan 9, 2014, 3:22 PM
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I always write my first draft in the language I grew up speaking (Southern American Redneck) but clean it up in further revisions. It's sad that we assume we know something about the intelligence of an individual because of they spoken or written grammar they use. My mother (and no, I'm not posting a pic) has terrible written grammar but is an incredibly successful businesswoman. We must be careful what we ASSUME about others based on their speech or written grammar.
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Enthusiast [115]
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Re: This also may be a first draft.
Jan 9, 2014, 3:36 PM
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All I assumed is that paper should not get a passing grade in any collegiate program.
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Oculus Spirit [82043]
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And what makes you think it did?***
Jan 9, 2014, 3:37 PM
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Enthusiast [115]
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Re: So, if you get past the grammar
Jan 9, 2014, 3:35 PM
[ in reply to So, if you get past the grammar ] |
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It's available online, there was an article all over the internet a few years ago. I didn't post the link because it names the football player.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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So, again, it's been established that South Carolina
Jan 9, 2014, 3:43 PM
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As a state, does not do a good job of educating the poor. I think we remember the corridor of shame thing a few years ago. So, if a football player, from the state of South Carolina, is able to score the minimum required score on the S.A.T. A.C.T., whatever, should that player be punished for the failings of a broken public education system, or should the player helped in overcome the failings of the system through remediation, tutoring, and monitoring? Clemson does an excellent job of taking "broken" students, and helping them succeed both on the field and in the classroom. I see no issue with this, and again, if consider where these kids start, a paper containing a thesis statement and three supporting details is not bad. Also, consider that this isn't a finished writing sample, but a summary of the class, probably written in class with no editing.
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CU Medallion [64730]
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Facts will only confuse him.....
Jan 9, 2014, 3:54 PM
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This is the same goober who isnists that Clemson's 1981 National Championship is tainted yet he has zero evidence to support an allegation that is based largely if not entirely on ignorance and envy.
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Enthusiast [115]
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Re: Facts will only confuse him.....
Jan 9, 2014, 4:03 PM
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I never said it was tainted. I just find palnk eyed speck pickers quite laughable. I said you are delusional if you read that report, insist it was Charlie Pell's fault, believe Cofer and Minor are the only 2 athlete's involved, and try to justify it by using the moronic premise that the NCAA didn't strip a title that it did not award.
Perfectly willing to listen to an intelligent rebuttal if you can structure something better than "tell 'em coot". I'm sure you will not and you certainly don't owe me one, but would like to point out you haven't presented any facts, just opinions.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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I'm still waiting for an intelligent rebuttal from you
Jan 9, 2014, 4:05 PM
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on the current post.
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CU Medallion [64730]
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I never said....
Jan 9, 2014, 4:13 PM
[ in reply to Re: Facts will only confuse him..... ] |
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the NCAA didn't strip a title it didn't award. Those are your words not mine.
I said the NCAA did not require Clemson to forefit any of the games played during the 1981 season which would not have been the case if the NCAA could prove that any players on that team received any illegal enducements.
The ABSOLUTE FACTS ARE, there has never been one shread of evidence presented whatsoever to support that any member of the 1981 National Championship team ever received any type of extra or illegal benefit.
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Enthusiast [115]
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Is there any other work available?
Jan 9, 2014, 3:57 PM
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The idea of the e-portfolio is to show a progression of work. So, to adequately judge this student, you would need to see several pieces of work, from each year.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Enthusiast [115]
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Re: Also, you never actually have any substantive responses
Jan 9, 2014, 4:10 PM
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I see. Obviously this site has some evidence of Mr. Clowney's work in college on which it bases it's opinions of him. Your assumption that it is from his freshman year is interesting as well. So what would your opinion be if I could show that it was not?
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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If you can show it is not, please do
Jan 9, 2014, 4:12 PM
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This paper is obviously from an introductory comp class, based on the assignment. It is not from an English class that requires analysis of literature.
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CU Medallion [64730]
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So...
Jan 9, 2014, 4:21 PM
[ in reply to Re: Also, you never actually have any substantive responses ] |
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you insist on evidence of Mr. Clowney's work which serves as the basis for this site's opinion of him, yet you are unable to produce any evidence whatsoever to support your contentions that there were players on the 1981 team who received extra or illegal benefits.
Oh the hypocrisy and the irony.
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Enthusiast [115]
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Re: So...
Jan 9, 2014, 4:27 PM
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Reading comprehension not your strong suit? I didn't demand evidence. Pointing out that most opinions on this type of website, whether Gamecock or Tiger, normally doesn't have much evidence behind it. I don't have a burden to provide evidence as those were not my contentions, but the NCAA's. I didn't say there were players on the 1981 team, I said it would take a moron to think that those violations only included 2 players.
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CU Medallion [64730]
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Actually....
Jan 9, 2014, 4:32 PM
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it takes a moron with a HUGE inferiority complex to suggest that the violations were further reaching notwithstanding all other actual evidence to the contrary. Also I never said it didn't include other players. I said there was no evidence it included any players on the 81 team.
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Enthusiast [115]
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Re: Actually....
Jan 10, 2014, 10:25 AM
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Actually it only takes a modicum of intelligence to see that there is no way there were only 2 players involved. You ask me for evidence of that opinion based on the facts presented in the violations report, look at the violations report and it uses the terms student athlete and enrolled student athlete. I don't think either Cofer or Minor ever enrolled.
Yet you present something as fact with no evidence to support it unless you have the transcripts of the hearing. Unless you know the names of the players attached to the violations you cannot definitively say no one involved played in 1981. I never made a claim that anyone did, so I don't need to provide evidence.
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110%er [5298]
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Re: So, again, it's been established that South Carolina
Jan 9, 2014, 4:14 PM
[ in reply to Re: So, again, it's been established that South Carolina ] |
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You are encouraged to put together your eportfolio starting from your freshman year. I had a few different classes with athletes on the football and basketball team just a short time ago (I am a 2013 grad) and they weren't treated special in any way. They were always in class, and they always contributed to discussions when appropriate. It is likely that because the syllabus to what is likely a freshman english class said he could use the paper in his eportfolio, the athlete submitted it.
In my experience, athletes at Clemson aren't given special treatment or grades by teachers. I think some of them probably need, and get, special attention from tutors, but I don't think anyone would argue there is anything wrong with that.
Message was edited by: summeyd®
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Enthusiast [115]
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Re: So, again, it's been established that South Carolina
Jan 9, 2014, 4:23 PM
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I didn't say it was. Just trying to point out that every school has athletes enrolled that are not necessarily the brightest. That's not why Dabo and Spurrier show up at their schools.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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No, you were taking a swipe at Clemson
Jan 9, 2014, 4:56 PM
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You failed because your school didn't even provide the information. My argument was that yes, Clemson does admit students with less that stellar backgrounds, but Clemson does an excellent job of helping those same students become successful academically. You attempted to counter with a 2 paragraph in class writing sample from a football players freshman year as evidence that this was not true.
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Oculus Spirit [82043]
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Member [26]
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Re: No, moron, I had an eportfolio my freshman year and that
Jan 9, 2014, 4:47 PM
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there was this one time at band camp and I couldn't pee....they inserted an exportfilio..yawzer
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Ring of Honor [26353]
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CU Medallion [64730]
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Oculus Spirit [82043]
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I'd also like to see an English paper Clowney wrote his
Jan 9, 2014, 3:32 PM
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freshman year, first draft.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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I taught a Coot DB
Jan 9, 2014, 3:37 PM
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Good kid, Smart kid, terrible writer, marginal test scores (at best). I actually had a conversation with Spurrier regarding the students ability to succeed in college. I told him that the kid had the work ethic and the brain power, but lacked the formal education part of the equation. The kid was a successful player at USCe and graduated. His writing looked similar, at least as a senior in high school, to the writing presented above.
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Oculus Spirit [82043]
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Heck, I got a 540 on my verbal in the SAT, but I made up
Jan 9, 2014, 3:40 PM
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for it with a 790 in math...
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CU Medallion [64730]
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Many kids write just like they talk....
Jan 9, 2014, 3:42 PM
[ in reply to I taught a Coot DB ] |
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and a lot of that has to do with all of the mobile devices being used today and the expressions often used therein.
Kids aren't learning good communication skills.
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CU Medallion [64730]
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Enthusiast [115]
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Re: LOL...like Clowney ever did any actual class work himself***
Jan 10, 2014, 11:30 AM
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Could you provide evidence of that?
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Orange Blooded [2535]
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you're obviously not a teacher
Jan 9, 2014, 4:03 PM
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Look carefull at what you said. Sentence one - part A, is directly contradicted by sentence two.
As if the educational system can solve "generational poverty and ignorance".
(Sigh)
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Actually, I was a teacher
Jan 9, 2014, 4:08 PM
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I taught in one of the most impoverished areas of the state. South Carolina does a terrible job with remediation of at risk students. Generally speaking, athletics is the only way for some of these kids to escape poverty. If education isn't the way to solve ignorance, I'm interested in your solution.
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CU Medallion [64730]
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Education is absolutely the way to solve ignorance....
Jan 9, 2014, 4:25 PM
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but education is not the sole responsibility of the schools. It is a cooperative effort between the parents and the schools and sadly, starting from a very early age and in far too many cases, many of the kids do not receive the support at home that is so badly needed in order to establish the foundation for better preparing them to succeed academically.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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I agree with that
Jan 9, 2014, 4:52 PM
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However, at some point, the solution of passing kids through without any of the requisite skills, and "graduating" them with no prospects of being a successful citizen is not the answer. This was my experience with the South Carolina education system. This was not my experience (at least to a certain extent) in both Tennessee (which had an excellent vocational programs) and Texas. Kids that couldn't read or right in the 12th grade were the exceptions in both of those states, it was almost the rule with my 12th graders in South Carolina. It is a fair comparison because S.E.S. and parental support wise, these kids were on a similar level.
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Orange Blooded [3328]
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Re: Back to the "interesting stat"
Jan 9, 2014, 4:39 PM
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See this thread:
Former USC running back, Kenny Miles, taken into custody
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All-In [40657]
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Moar pigs of DrDeadAnimals or none of this is true***
Jan 9, 2014, 4:52 PM
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50
