Apologize up front for this being long but I do support funding for Ukraine

So, we are only using part of the Defense funds, ok, that's cool. We both know that is false, and new bills will be required for increased Ukraine support. But why?

1. Use our defense funds, take this time in the volatile world to cut our own defenses for this operation. Or, take it from welfare funds. Biden brags every day about the low unemployment numbers, why is welfare spending higher than ever? Something doesn't jive there. Take from Obamacare (did you know that every spending bill since it's inception, has included additional funds to keep it afloat? EPIC FAILURE). Take it from the European nations that have the most to lose by Russian taking over Ukraine. Where are their billions? I know they gave a few tanks and some MREs, but really? In actuality they are funding Putin's army through energy purchases more than they are supporting Ukraine. Why? One again, spending money that we do not have, is not a solution. It's hard enough to track gov't spending in the U.S. with receipts, but we have no issue handing blank checks to people with a history of corruption (and that is not just Ukraine by the way).

2. The left supports Ukraine, but no one wants to win. The US loves quagmires just like Afgan, Iraq, Somalia, ALL THE BALTIC STATES, and pretty much everything from 'Nam forward. If Biden and the war loving left really wanted to help Ukraine, why did he block them from getting Polish fighter jets? Because we never "fight to win", we only fight to propagate an image.

3. Everyone knows Putin is a thug no matter how many names you and your kind on Tnet call us. Trump can also respect Putin and his timing on the attack, and not like him. Miami steamrolled us in the 4th qtr, and I can respect their effort; but also hate them at the same time. Tabby has some of the best responses on this board and I respect him, but that doesn't mean that I agree with him all the time. But in this case it is not a matter of "anyone questioning the spending loves Putin", it is a matter of continued spending without an end game. Again, fight to win, or do not fight at all.

***Also, military officers have different opinions on EVERYTHING; ALL THE TIME. So, what is your cut off for "highly ranked officers", so I will know if my opinion meets the mark?

tabbyplague®

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Oct 26, 2023, 10:48 AM [ in reply to Re: What does Quozzel mean by stiffing Ukraine? ]

Up front - I'm very concerned about our national debt that has gone completely off the rails with the Federal Government's spending. Our Government has spent $trillions on things it had/has no Constitutional business spending our tax dollars on. We have created whole bureaucracies dedicated to spending money while increasing the Federal Government's power through massive, wasteful bureaucratic processes that produce more backdoor laws (called regulations) than was ever intended by our Constitution and our founding.

However, one of the fundamental responsibilities of any Government and a Constitutional purpose for our Federal Government is for the "common defense" of the United States. As such - money going towards that effort is within the Constitutional framework upon which we were founded.

There are two major nation state geopolitical adversaries that the USA must stay ahead of to maintain our position in the world: China is number one with Russia being number two. Both of these countries seek our demise if not destruction and money spent to counter their military capabilities and keep them in check falls under that national defense blanket.

I'm a generational product of the Cold War, raised with an understanding of the dangers of Marxism and it's many poisonous fruits - particularly Communism. I joined the military while Reagan was President and spent my early "gold bar" years training to defend the Fulda Gap against the Soviet hordes before spending the rest of my military career mired down in the Middle East for what was largely a fools errand.

Throughout my career, I have seen an incredible amount of tax dollars wasted by the DoD chasing unrealistic battlefield technology, flag officer "boondoggles" and funding defense industry "jobs programs" that produced nothing of consequence to our national defense. I also know some Ukrainian Army officers on a personal level so I come at the whole Russia vs Ukraine thing from a certain perspective that is admittedly biased.

Having said all that - if anyone had made the deal with me that for less than 10% of the annual US military budget every year for the next 10 years we could:

1. Destroy 50% of the Russian military's combat power
2. Crush and deplete the Russian defense industry's ability to make new modern tanks, aircraft, and ships
3. Destroy much of the best trained Russian military units and deplete the rest of their ranks of experienced warriors
4. Mire Russia into a conflict that continually exhausts their manpower, weaponry, and greatly erodes their ability to supply other US adversaries with their military hardware
5. Effectively set the Russian military back more than 10 years in capability

AND..

All this would be done without deploying most of the US military to foreign lands, having a single dead or wounded US Soldier, no massive losses in US military ships, tanks, artillery, and aircraft and the lifelong US Government costs associated with such things - I would take that deal every day of the week and twice on Sunday. I'd almost think it too good to be true but here we are and thanks to Ukraine's willingness to fight it has fallen into our lap. So I say - "Praise the Lord and pass the ammo"...

To my fellow Conservatives... I understand the natural inclination to avoid sending more money/weaponry to Ukraine. I really do - especially when it will be printed or borrowed money that we can ill afford. But unlike a lot of our tax dollars spent by Congress and our over-grown Federal Bureaucracy - the money being spent in Ukraine is producing tangible results. It is ultimately supporting our nations defense by destroying large swaths of one of our two geopolitical adversary's military and removing their ability to arm other US adversaries throughout the world. It is also greatly reducing Russia's ability to militarily affect other regions and conflicts elsewhere in the world. If we want to pay as we go - the DoD easily spends 10% of their annual $800(+) billion budget on BS that can be shelved or cut to cover these Ukrainian costs.

I can fully agree with the Republican position that we need better accountability of the money/weapons being sent to Ukraine. I have no issues with more "accountability strings" being attached to Ukraine funding/weapons. As of this summer, the US has sent a total of about $78 billion in aid to Ukraine over the last 1.5 years:

Financial - $26 Billion
Humanitarian - $4 Billion
Military - $47 Billion

That is about $52 Billion a year or 6.5% of our annual Defense budget to have 50% of a geopolitical adversary's military destroyed - that is a bargain from any clear-eyed military budgeting perspective. I contend this cost can be absorbed from the military budget since the money is ultimately being spent to destroy an adversaries military. However, if the Republicans don't want to offset the Ukrainian costs completely out of our military budget then make it part of a deal that Ukrainian support is contingent with other Federal Agency cuts - particularly those agencies that Conservatives have been going after for quite some time. The Democrats will deal to get the Ukraine funding - the Republicans just have to push the right buttons and for once show they have a brain and a spine.

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What does Quozzel mean by stiffing Ukraine?

Re: What does Quozzel mean by stiffing Ukraine?

Re: What does Quozzel mean by stiffing Ukraine?

Ironic***

I'm not sure you know what ironic means.***

Re: I'm not sure you know what ironic means.***

I know what is ironic...

I imagine there's some Natives in Louisiana that would be too...***

Not true; I'm a good dog***

Sorta spotty...***

Re: What does Quozzel mean by stiffing Ukraine?

Independents scare the weak minded

Re: What does Quozzel mean by stiffing Ukraine?

Re: What does Quozzel mean by stiffing Ukraine?

Re: What does Quozzel mean by stiffing Ukraine?

Re: What does Quozzel mean by stiffing Ukraine?

Re: What does Quozzel mean by stiffing Ukraine?

Much to upack there. It's like I gave a Rorschach test to a schizophrenic

Only here to say...

Re: Only here to say...

You're triggered over TWEAN MEEEETs...***