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New Story: Swinney talks Watson, new coordinators and bowl game
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Replies: 67
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New Story: Swinney talks Watson, new coordinators and bowl game
Dec 7, 2014, 8:40 PM
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Scout Team [166]
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Absolute ZERO upside to Watson playing in this game***
Dec 7, 2014, 8:50 PM
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Tiger Spirit [9505]
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Re: Absolute ZERO upside to Watson playing in this game***
Dec 7, 2014, 9:19 PM
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Amen to that. If it is 8 months recovery (I thought it was 6) it will be August 8 (if he does it tomorrow) before his rehab is completed. Pushing it kind of close?
As frustrating as it may be with CS, it will get DW back sooner.
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Zealot [757]
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Amateur [30]
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Re: I would like to be in the best position to win the game, and
Dec 7, 2014, 10:33 PM
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Ummm... Yes. If a team knows your QB is playing with a torn ACL do you not think that puts a huge target on him? Get the kid healthy for a great season next year.
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Zealot [757]
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By that guess then there was a huge target when he was
Dec 7, 2014, 11:03 PM
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scrambling, buying time, and running for 2 TDs against the coots. Still don't see the additional risk, especially in light of the coot game.
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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Nobody aside from the coaches knew he had a torn ACL
Dec 7, 2014, 11:28 PM
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during the game.
It's not fair to hold us fans accountable for their decision to play him at that time.
I'm indifferent on his decision to play him against USuCk b/c, in hindsight, it was a non-issue. But if you were to ask me about what I believe he should do now, I'd say go ahead with the surgery and baby that knee till he's back 100%. Watson is a franchise QB...he will be playing at the next level and already has an unbelievable talent at his age, and an even more humble nature.
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Orange Blooded [3881]
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I still haven't quite made up my mind on the isse yet but
Dec 8, 2014, 9:14 AM
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you have a very good point about not rushing rehab and healing time.....but I sure would like to win our bowl game and get that 10th win......hhmmmm what to do
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Orange Blooded [3881]
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Freshman [3]
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From personal experience...
Dec 7, 2014, 10:40 PM
[ in reply to I would like to be in the best position to win the game, and ] |
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From personal experience, you can get hurt more. I had a partial thickness tear and tried to cut on it. Went down on it again and tore my Meniscus. It added ~6 weeks on crutches to my recovery time.
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Zealot [757]
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That brace prevents any over extension of any of the other
Dec 7, 2014, 11:01 PM
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ligaments, otherwise he wouldn't have played against the coots.
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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Maybe when you're cutting on your own weight...
Dec 7, 2014, 11:59 PM
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But when you have a 300 lb lineman fall on your knee from the blindside while you're in the pocket, Watson could wind up like this...
A brace won't do much against preventing that...
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Zealot [757]
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That has nothing to do with his injury. Or playing against
Dec 8, 2014, 7:37 AM
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the coots.
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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Are you saying he can't injury it more or tear more
Dec 8, 2014, 8:15 AM
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ligaments with the brace?
http://www.tigernet.com/forums/message.jspa?messageID=16450743
You seem to think it can't....I'm pretty sure it can.
I've seen a guys brace get mangled, albeit that was nearly 10 years ago. I'm pretty sure they don't make the knee bullet proof. The brace gives a limited amount of protection to the player and prophylactic use supposedly reduces the risk of injury but a brace does not universally "prevent" all injuries to the knee...especially if a 300 lb lineman falls on it. It can restores the knee to its original function and offers some degree of protection, but that's about it...it doesn't make it impervious to injury if the scenario above were to unfold.
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Orange Blooded [3881]
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and if he plays just drop back and throw, hand off and don't
Dec 8, 2014, 9:16 AM
[ in reply to That brace prevents any over extension of any of the other ] |
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worry about that extra yard....next play. If we are smart with him, we could play him. The biggest issue for me is the head start on rehab.
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Dynasty Maker [3433]
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Re: I would like to be in the best position to win the game, and
Dec 8, 2014, 1:05 PM
[ in reply to I would like to be in the best position to win the game, and ] |
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Of course you can get hurt more! Please read this: http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/sportsdoc/Do-I-need-an-ACL-to-play.html
A couple of important exerpts:
The ACL is the main stabilizing ligament in the knee. It prevents excessive rotation of the knee joint that can occur with cutting and pivoting motions such as those in football, soccer, basketball and other similar sports. When the ACL doesn’t work, these rotational forces are transmitted to the other knee structures resulting in tearing of the meniscus and damage to the joint surface cartilage. Cartilage is the Holy Grail of orthopaedics and sports medicine. We do a very good job a reconstructing the ACL but our results with cartilage repair are adequate at best.
What Broadway Joe proved is that a torn ACL, despite bracing, results in severe damage to the knee joint. Research shows that 90 percent of people with a torn ACL have significant problems or re-injury and only 10% of the patients did ok without surgery.
What about braces? Braces simply do not work in preventing injury to other knee structures after ACL injury and this has been proven with a multitude of studies. The risk of playing with an ACL injured knee is severe and permanent damage to the remaining meniscus cartilage and the joint surface cartilage. We can fix the ACL but we don’t do a good job at fixing the joint surface cartilage. Injury to this cartilage means early and progressive arthritis.
So, for the love of god, don't risk playing Deshaun again with a torn ACL.
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Dynasty Maker [3433]
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Re: I would like to be in the best position to win the game, and
Dec 8, 2014, 1:08 PM
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Especially note the part in bold. Watson already had a sprained LCL...obviously this sprain should be ok by the time the bowl rolls around, but it's totally insane to risk it again since this brace protects the ACL but puts more strain on the other ligaments.
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Paw Master [16698]
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Re: Absolute ZERO upside to Watson playing in this game***
Dec 8, 2014, 8:26 AM
[ in reply to Absolute ZERO upside to Watson playing in this game*** ] |
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Unless, maybe, a win might be considered "upside". I hope, if Deshawn can't play that Cole has a great game, but I certainly don't have the confidence level in him as I do in Deshawn, and I'm sure I'm not alone.
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Team Captain [473]
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so what you're saying is...
Dec 8, 2014, 8:35 AM
[ in reply to Absolute ZERO upside to Watson playing in this game*** ] |
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Cole has at least 1 more INT to throw this season?
The upside is not losing the bowl game. Cole is terrible, awful, worst QB in the country! ( bash all you want, but deep down you know it's true, kid might be the best human being alive, but a good WB he is not ). We have zero- zero chance of winning tho shame without Cole.
If DW need s more time to recover, ok, we have 2 elite QB's on the way to help next year, but as for this game, this season, we know we have Cole the turn over machine.
He stares down receivers, throws late and has no zip on his passes! None. He is terrible! We lose the bowl unless Gallman and Dye each run for 200 if Cole plays.
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Dynasty Maker [3433]
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Re: so what you're saying is...
Dec 8, 2014, 1:10 PM
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We don't have two elite QBs coming in next season. We have two very good prospects. Willy Korn was an "elite prospects". So was Kyle Parker. Neither of them worked out. We know what Deshaun is and should protect him at all costs. Playing him with a torn ACL risks permanent damage. We did it once and skated. Don't risk it again.
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MVP [501]
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Re: Absolute ZERO upside to Watson playing in this game***
Dec 8, 2014, 8:59 AM
[ in reply to Absolute ZERO upside to Watson playing in this game*** ] |
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Agree...I believe that Coach intentionally waited until the bowl teams were selected to float the idea of having Watson's knee repair sooner rather than later. Watson's playing possibility helped us secure that bowl, and that's why it wasn't mentioned right after the USC East game. I also think that some of the "Blow Back" of playing him in that game may be playing a part in the decision. Go ahead and get him ready for all of next year's games...Maybe we can get CS ready to do those 2ft flip passes to Tavis. Just my thoughts.
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Recruit [97]
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I'm not sure what i'll think if Dabo chooses to play Watson.
Dec 7, 2014, 9:43 PM
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Best case is we win this meaningless bowl game. The downside however is that we could really damage Watson. I am not a doctor however and obviously they cleared him to play in the USuCk game so what do I know.
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Zealot [757]
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Not a single football game is menaingless and a chance at
Dec 7, 2014, 9:48 PM
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10th win is significant too. My understanding is Watson can't hurt more. They would go through with surgery earlier simply to give him more time to heal before summer workouts.
I want to win the game. It's not meaningless at all and Watson can't get hurt more.
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Valley Protector [1433]
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Re: Not a single football game is menaingless and a chance at
Dec 7, 2014, 10:00 PM
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You no how selfish that sounds just bc us as fans really want to win this game this kid is 18 years old and he already played one game on a torn acl bc it was THE game we needed to win and we smashed the coots and as fans it's selfish to say well it can't be damaged anymore that doesn't mean this kid isn't in serious pain he already did more than most anyother player could do so go ahead and have surgery thank you for the wonderful freshman season and thank you for playing thru that pain Saturday and helping shut spurrier up and ended that losing streak GO TIGERS!!
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Zealot [757]
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Simple question.......
Dec 7, 2014, 10:09 PM
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How can he get hurt more? I don't think he can. It's not matter of being selfish to put us in the best position to win the game, as long as no additional harm can be done to Watson.
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Game Changer [1900]
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Can he get hurt more? Maybe
Dec 7, 2014, 10:31 PM
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I'm no doctor, but I understand that all on the ligaments in the knee, the ACL, PCL, MCL, LCL, etc. help to support the knee and allow it to move normally. From the articles that came out about Watson's intial injury, it's unusual for the LCL alone to be injured. That would normally occur during an ACL tear or injury to another ligament. Right now, he's got a torn ACL and a sprained LCL, so his knee is probably pretty weak. Could injury occur to the other ligaments? How much support and protection does the brace provide? I simply do not know. I want to win the game and know Watson playing provides a much better chance of that happening, but I'm starting to think it might be best long term for Deshaun (and the team) to sit this one out.
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Zealot [757]
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From what you posted I'm guessing you don't know?
Dec 7, 2014, 10:44 PM
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I'm not trying to be rude, but I'm not interested in speculation and guesses. If it's no different then the coot game, why not play him?
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Freshman [1]
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Re: Can he get hurt more? Maybe
Dec 7, 2014, 10:57 PM
[ in reply to Can he get hurt more? Maybe ] |
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We as Tiger fans have seen & know the extent of Lattimore's injury at Carolina, His career is completely over.....Watson's health comes first, get the knee repaired. The coach needs the to tell him,no.
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Zealot [757]
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I'm hoping someone can explain.
Dec 7, 2014, 10:59 PM
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Can Watson get hurt more then he already is and was when he led us to victory against the coots? I don't it has anything to do with Marcus Lattimore.
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Trainer [31]
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Re: Simple question.......
Dec 7, 2014, 11:52 PM
[ in reply to Simple question....... ] |
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If he's already playing with one torn ligament, the others that aren't are taking more stress. On a hot to that knee in the right place, and not only is his acl torn but his mcl. You could end up with nerve or muscle damage. Forget it. Sit him. Get him the surgery and get ready for what should be a acc championship run if not a national title run next year.
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Trainer [31]
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Re: Simple question.......
Dec 7, 2014, 11:52 PM
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One hit to that knee*
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Zealot [757]
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That risk is the same regardless of his existing injury. In
Dec 8, 2014, 7:38 AM
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fact it may be the case the brace is stronger than the normal ligaments.
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CU Guru [1639]
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Re: Simple question.......
Dec 8, 2014, 7:45 AM
[ in reply to Simple question....... ] |
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Simple question, if he was your son would you want him to play? I doubt it.
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Trainer [39]
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Re: Simple statement.......
Dec 8, 2014, 10:18 AM
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3 Christmas gifts...
Give Watson the surgery!
Give Cole the bench!
Give Nick to ball!
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Freshman [6]
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Clemson Sports Icon [59586]
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Re: Not a single football game is menaingless and a chance at
Dec 8, 2014, 2:03 AM
[ in reply to Re: Not a single football game is menaingless and a chance at ] |
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If you can't play one that is injured, why is it OK to play the other that is injured also. Cole could just as likely to be severely injured in his shoulder also. Go ahead and get Cole fixed up with what ever is needed to get him back to a 100% also along with Watson. After all, he going back into the real world where he will need both shoulders at a 100%. But please lets not insinuate or even agree that it's OK to play 1 injured QB and not the other injured QB!!!
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Valley Protector [1433]
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Re: Not a single football game is menaingless and a chance at
Dec 8, 2014, 2:21 AM
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I don't want cole to play forget cole stoutd. He is gone after this and has shown against decent teams he blows.Play nick he's 100% no injury issues and he will actually be here next year even tho prob will never play too much with talent coming in, it woulnt hurt To get him some playing time he couldn't be any worse than cole
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Clemson Sports Icon [59586]
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Re: Not a single football game is menaingless and a chance at
Dec 8, 2014, 3:04 AM
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As injury prone as Deshaun is, I wouldn't bet 50cents against Nick not getting valuable playing time next season.
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Asst Coach [864]
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Re: I'm not sure what i'll think if Dabo chooses to play Watson.
Dec 7, 2014, 10:03 PM
[ in reply to I'm not sure what i'll think if Dabo chooses to play Watson. ] |
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Its the same as any other bowl game that is not the Sugar or the Rose. Winning 10 games is a big deal in my book. With the cat out of the bag about the ACL tear, OU would come after a less mobile DW (wish Dabo had kept coy about the situation although it might not make too much o f a difference). We can win anyways. I hope we do
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CU Guru [1639]
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Re: I'm not sure what i'll think if Dabo chooses to play Watson.
Dec 8, 2014, 7:43 AM
[ in reply to I'm not sure what i'll think if Dabo chooses to play Watson. ] |
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Funny, everybody says don't play Watson. If that's how you feel there should be zero negative posts about Cole or any other player on here. But we all know, if Watson doesn't play the Dabo haters will be out in force if we lose.
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Head Coach [944]
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i think its like this,
Dec 7, 2014, 10:15 PM
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If Watson plays itll be because Watson wants to play. If he doesnt then it means he wants to have surgery & play it safe. This will be a call that only Watson will make. He is an adult & knows the situation he is in.
Im no dr either but what ive heard was it is a 6-10 month recovery time so best case senerio he is good by mid june worst case hes good by oct. A friend of mine had surgery on his ACL after a skateboarding accident & was back skateboarding semi-pro after 5 months. Bottom line he is a team player & he wants whats best for himself & for his team so we will see what he does.
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Game Day Hero [4317]
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How is Dabo coming along with the hiring of
Dec 7, 2014, 10:32 PM
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A Sports Psychologist? Obviously, there hasn't been one with the major regression of Cole Stoudt from the first game until now. Also, according to many of you, nearly all of the Bowl games (both past and present) that the Tigers play in are meaningless - since they aren't in the playoffs. Trying to win a Bowl game and get a 10th win is not meaningless!!!
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Walk-On [145]
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Re: i think its like this,
Dec 8, 2014, 11:55 AM
[ in reply to i think its like this, ] |
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No...he is not an adult yet. He is just 18 years old...he cannot even drink a beer (not that he would want to).
Let his family decide...they are still his guardians and will consider the best for him.
Either way Watson, thank you for a great year!!! We are praying for you.
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Starter [356]
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Re: i think its like this,
Dec 8, 2014, 1:23 PM
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That's not a valid point at all about DW not being an adult at 18 and not being old enough to drink a beer(or any alcohol).
I know many 30, 40, 50 and even some 60 year olds (my age group) who can, by law, drink alcohol who don't know how to act like adults when they do!!!!!
It varies with each individual concerning both "being mature" and "being an adult". There is no guarantee of either.
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Dynasty Maker [3433]
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Re: i think its like this,
Dec 8, 2014, 2:01 PM
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Regardless of that, if we're truly meant to be a "Clemson family", then as the head of that family, Dabo should do what's in the long-term interest of the family and its members.
It's clear as day that the better decision is to not risk Watson's permanent well-being in this situation. For both him and the team.
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Amateur [30]
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Re: New Story: Swinney talks Watson, new coordinators and bowl game
Dec 7, 2014, 10:41 PM
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Am I alone in thinking that Jeff Scott was to be the head OC? Maybe I missed something but I thought Morris was grooming him for the position. I'm sure Elliott will do great otherwise he would not have been named the play caller, just took me by surprise.
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Associate AD [841]
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Dabo be smart
Dec 7, 2014, 11:41 PM
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I would like to win any game we play but this is essentially an exhibition game. Get the surgery NOW. Use this opportunity to get DW healthy, break in coordinators, and get Nick some more reps. If we don't turn it over we might luck out and win it. If not lets get focused on the next two years when we could get in a game that really matters!
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Varsity [201]
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Re: New Story: Swinney talks Watson, new coordinators and bowl game
Dec 8, 2014, 6:39 AM
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We have 3 weeks to find someone other than Cole or else we're looking at potential embarrassment in the bowl game and I don't care who we're playing - Cole has lost whatever edge he once had - if he had one.
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Rival Killer [2898]
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Get the surgery ASAP
Dec 8, 2014, 7:56 AM
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As someone who has gone thru multiple major knee surgeries, having an additional month of rehab could be significant, especially if there are complications or setbacks, which do occur in even elite athletes.
DW is the first Clemson player I've seen in a very long time that I truly believe can win the Heisman. He is simply the quintessential QB for today's game and lacks nothing to be the best QB in the country. Given that, if you agree, why would one even consider playing him? Given that, why would any adult risk this young mans future success in a mid-tier bowl game when he is a freshman?
I am frankly stunned that this is even a topic of discussion. Get the surgery, start the rehab ASAP, prepare for next year and let's see what these new OCs can do with Cole and Nick. We all want to win but someone has to be the adult and make the only logical decision, regardless of the possible outcome of the bowl game.
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Dynasty Maker [3433]
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Re: Get the surgery ASAP
Dec 8, 2014, 1:14 PM
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This times a million. This shouldn't even be a discussion. Get him the surgery immediately. This is about long term success.
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Connoisseur [360]
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Re: New Story: Swinney talks Watson, new coordinators and bowl game
Dec 8, 2014, 8:03 AM
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Dabo,Watson and staff have come to their senses in my opinion. I believe it's a done deal. He will not play in the bowl game and surgery will be scheduled soon.
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MVP [514]
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Here's the upside to Deshaun playing
Dec 8, 2014, 8:42 AM
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If we want to show all the recruits that would be signing in February that we're still going to have a great offense.
It will be a lot harder to get the finishing touches to this recruiting class and keep absolutely everybody if they think we're not the same team without Chad Morris. We all know it would be because we don't have Watson, but recruits might not be so sure. And feeling confident about where you're headed for 4 years is a big part of recruiting.
That being said, please get the surgery now, Deshaun!
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Rock Defender [63]
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Sounds like Dabo is coming to his senses..........
Dec 8, 2014, 8:43 AM
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Get the surgery now, next yr means everything, the bowl means nothing. Duh. Cole should have his confidence back by the time the bowl comes around. Lol
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Trainer [40]
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I doubt Dabo ever planned to play Watson in the bowl game...
Dec 8, 2014, 9:07 AM
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I think he announced that make us look better to potential bowl game suitors. Now that we are locked into our bowl, Watson will have the surgery and miss the game.
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Orange Blooded [2468]
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Let me give you your first "Thumbs Up"***
Dec 8, 2014, 9:37 AM
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Game Changer [1784]
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Dynasty Maker [3433]
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Ring of Honor [23085]
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Dabo, Deshaun and the doctors will make the right decision.
Dec 8, 2014, 9:24 AM
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I'm not at all worried about it because I trust them in this regard.
I hope Deshaun plays, but I understand if he doesn't.
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Game Changer [1784]
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...just like when they played Kyle Parker with broken ribs.
Dec 8, 2014, 1:23 PM
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Kyle Parker suffered broken ribs against Auburn, but Dabo and the doctors never said a word about it and they played him the rest of the season. Then when the Rockies' doctors did an x-ray, they publicly announced that Parker's ribs had been broken.
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Starter [356]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Re: ...just like when they played Kyle Parker with broken ribs.
Dec 8, 2014, 1:28 PM
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In Parker's case, it was my understanding from the athletic trainer that Kyle's X-rays didn't show the fracture clearly. That's why they continued to play him even though he was experiencing pain. The Rockies examination went further as pro sports physicals usually do.
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Ring of Honor [23085]
TigerPulse: 100%
53
Posts: 23966
Joined: 2003
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This is correct. Nobody knew his ribs were broken.***
Dec 8, 2014, 2:04 PM
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Orange Blooded [2468]
TigerPulse: 100%
32
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What did Jay Jay McCullough do?***
Dec 8, 2014, 9:35 AM
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Team Captain [482]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: New Story: Swinney talks Watson, new coordinators and bowl game
Dec 8, 2014, 1:19 PM
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Playing DW in bowl game is not a.smart move. GO ahead with the surgery to prevent any further damage to ligaments. If he plays, he will be a.target for Oklahoma D. If surgery is done tomorrow, he won't be ready til June or July at earliest. Going.to need him next season, even with Isreal and Bryant coming in January. Start Nick and get him some snaps and ready for.spring. Cole, at this point is.not a viable option. Gone after.bowl game and Nick still has 2 years left.
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Starter [356]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Re: New Story: Swinney talks Watson, new coordinators and bowl game
Dec 8, 2014, 1:32 PM
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Has anyone even considered that Brandon Streeter may be able to help identify and correct Cole's issues that he has had as the season has progressed. That would certainly be a great start to his Clemson coaching career.
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Scout Team [168]
TigerPulse: 100%
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For the idiots who think DW can't injure the knee further,
Dec 8, 2014, 2:01 PM
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I encourage you to go back and re-watch the coot game. Watch how many times DW is simply running out of the pocket (and NOT making a cut) after throwing the ball and then comes up limping, then has to go sit out for a series. If those types of maneuvers are all it takes for him to go out of the game, think about what a serious knockdown or sack from a 300 lb DE (or multiple DE/DL) could do to him. It's probably a miracle he survived the coot game without further injuring the knee.
IMHO having him ready for next season is way more important than winning this bowl game. And if what they're saying about his rehab time is true, he should go ahead and have the necessary surgery sooner rather than later.
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Commissioner [1256]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Re: For the idiots who think DW can't injure the knee further,
Dec 8, 2014, 2:08 PM
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Uh, not sure Streeter ever corrected his issues... Suffered through his starts when i was a student ... quite unimpressive on this one.
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Dynasty Maker [3433]
TigerPulse: 91%
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Re: For the idiots who think DW can't injure the knee further,
Dec 8, 2014, 2:09 PM
[ in reply to For the idiots who think DW can't injure the knee further, ] |
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Yea, that's something I'm not sure people are remembering how bad our offensive line is. Yes, they played their best game against South Carolina, but we also need to take into account that South Carolina had one of the worst pass rushing defensive lines in the nation. They were tied for 121st in the nation with 12 sacks. Comparatively, Oklahoma is a decent #44 with 28 sacks. Our quarterback, regardless of who it is, is going to take some hits against Oklahoma.
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Offensive Star [308]
TigerPulse: 35%
15
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Just don't play Stoudt.
Dec 8, 2014, 7:48 PM
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It's not fair to the rest of the team. We need an alternative to Watson for next year anyhow. People who think that Stoudt should play another snap represent the dumbest part of our fan base. The sort of dumb that hires from within and thinks that Morris was the reason Stoudt had such a bad game against GT.
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