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Replies: 72
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TNET: Elliott looking for answers to slow starts on offense
Oct 15, 2018, 5:15 PM
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Orange Blooded [2575]
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Re: TNET: Elliott looking for answers to slow starts on offense
Oct 15, 2018, 5:27 PM
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motop-tierls? I no understand!!
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Paw Warrior [4740]
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I think it's French
Oct 15, 2018, 5:55 PM
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And we should've had our motop-tierls down this summer when everyone else was getting them down. It's a little late in the season, but when it comes to moto-tierls, it's never really to late to get them down. We'll need them down pat if we make it to the CFP.
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Orange Blooded [3380]
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Close. It's Cajun. And ETN gets it
Oct 16, 2018, 5:50 AM
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That's all that matters.
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Paw Master [16681]
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Re: I think it's French
Oct 16, 2018, 9:14 AM
[ in reply to I think it's French ] |
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I think it must be like what happens at the beach when a wave really slaps a tiny bikini top/bottom, or something like that. I think we need more of that going on at Clemson.
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Commissioner [942]
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Re: TNET: Elliott looking for answers to slow starts on offense
Oct 15, 2018, 5:55 PM
[ in reply to Re: TNET: Elliott looking for answers to slow starts on offense ] |
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Understand this. We can well lose this game Saturday. We have yet to face a top-tier defense, and N.C.State will bring that to Death Valley. I do believe that we will win, but this team is good---our first real test.
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Orange Beast [6413]
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Re: TNET: Elliott looking for answers to slow starts on offense
Oct 15, 2018, 6:39 PM
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They have a good QB and a good wr but what else makes you believe they are that good? What makes you believe they are better than A&M. They are not as talented as A&M and their coach is not as good as A&M. I don't expect to just beat the crap out of them but we are the much better team. State has played nobody and is not as good as last year imo. We will find out how good they are Saturday but we have not seen them play anybody. Our O has to play like they did against Wake and not like the Cuse game. We need a TD the first possession.
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Game Day Hero [4452]
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Rock Defender [68]
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Re: TNET: Elliott looking for answers to slow starts on offense
Oct 16, 2018, 10:13 AM
[ in reply to Re: TNET: Elliott looking for answers to slow starts on offense ] |
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You don't think Syracuse was a real team? Texas A&M? Did you not watch the games? Just because a team sucks against everyone else, doesn't mean they weren't an excellent team against us!
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Clemson Sports Icon [59296]
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Re: TNET: Elliott looking for answers to slow starts on offense
Oct 16, 2018, 5:01 PM
[ in reply to Re: TNET: Elliott looking for answers to slow starts on offense ] |
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NS State hasn't face a D as ours either, and there is a chance they could win, but I believe that chance is any where to 5-10% in DV against our D...Also, if our OC'S will strip the play book of all plays that is more suited for a KB type QB, and just run plays that fit TL'S skill set, NC State has absolutely no chance in DV going against our D and what could be our potentiate offense!!!
Message was edited by: allorangeallthetime52®
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Paw Master [16681]
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Tiger Spirit [9995]
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Re: TNET: Elliott looking for answers to slow starts on offense
Oct 15, 2018, 5:30 PM
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Aww just do the ol run up the middle, bubble screen, desperation pass punt routine. We are used to it
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Letterman [172]
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Re: TNET: Elliott looking for answers to slow starts on offense
Oct 15, 2018, 5:47 PM
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The sooner Elliott grasps the concept that throwing the ball behind the line of scrimmage (read bubble screen) is counter productive to moving the ball down the field, the sooner he can meet his objective of faster starts on offense!
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National Champion [8046]
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Re: TNET: Elliott looking for answers to slow starts on offense
Oct 15, 2018, 5:52 PM
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I'm not sure if they do it or not; but scripting the 1st set of plays! Practicing those plays exactly how we want them to work. Go and execute it. They coach our offense to take what the defense is giving based on what technique they are in.
Practice the ###### against what you are likely to get from an opponent. If you wait until finding out what they are in your less aggressive and more reactive! Take it to them with what you want to run! And, have all week to prep those first 10 plays!
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Orange Immortal [61170]
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Yes! My thoughts exactly. We used to do this.
Oct 16, 2018, 7:46 AM
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And it seemed to work pretty well. I can't remember if it was under The Chad's reign or during the TB years, but it worked better than what we're doing now.
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110%er [3631]
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110%er [3631]
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Re: scripting the first drive
Oct 16, 2018, 2:37 PM
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Really, t-net?
Why is ###### getting censored? The quotation marks?
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110%er [3631]
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Re: scripting the first drive
Oct 16, 2018, 2:43 PM
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######
######
######
Darn you, t-net. Why is scripting ok but scr*pt isn't?
I have learned a new curse word. From now on i will just say "scr*pt it" to my Christian friends and they will have no idea I'm cursing in T-net lingo.
Darn motop-tierls.
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All-TigerNet [10825]
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110%er [5339]
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Orange Blooded [2177]
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Re: TNET: Elliott looking for answers to slow starts on offense
Oct 15, 2018, 5:30 PM
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Throw deep the first play of every game
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Recruit [97]
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Not sure why he chose to single out ETN
Oct 15, 2018, 5:40 PM
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Athletic Dir [1128]
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Re: Not sure why he chose to single out ETN
Oct 15, 2018, 5:52 PM
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Be less predictable open up the offense give the defense a little eye candy.
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Orange Beast [6413]
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Re: Not sure why he chose to single out ETN
Oct 15, 2018, 5:57 PM
[ in reply to Not sure why he chose to single out ETN ] |
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If you would read he said he is focusing on his group(RBs) and then went on to talk about ETN who is our starting RB.
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Recruit [97]
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I did read and was trying to be polite
Oct 15, 2018, 6:34 PM
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National Champion [7827]
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He’s referring to ETN dropping passes
Oct 15, 2018, 10:21 PM
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they have absolutely been drive killers. I’m not sure he doesn’t take the one against GT the distance once he turns it up field.
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Recruit [97]
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Yeah that's two dropped passes in games that we won handily
Oct 15, 2018, 10:51 PM
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Freshman [4]
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Re: Yeah that's two dropped passes in games that we won handily
Oct 16, 2018, 12:37 PM
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Dropped balls stall drives. ETN dropping passes in the first drives don't help. Once he settles in he is the best player on the field. Him dropping balls and getting us into 2nd and long and him being our best player don't have to be mutually exclusive. Everyone makes mistakes. Elliott just expects more from ETN because we see it every week.
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CU Guru [1350]
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Re: Not sure why he chose to single out ETN
Oct 15, 2018, 10:43 PM
[ in reply to Re: Not sure why he chose to single out ETN ] |
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Not amused that Coach Elliott would refer to ETN's dropped passes as an inside joke. Everyone ##### their pants at practice or in a game at some point during their career.
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Walk-On [121]
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Re: Not sure why he chose to single out ETN
Oct 16, 2018, 2:54 PM
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I'm amused. That's some funny #$@& right there
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Gridiron Giant [15431]
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Re: TNET: Elliott looking for answers to slow starts on offense
Oct 15, 2018, 5:52 PM
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I hope Elliott and Scott looked at the first 10 plays of every game over the last 3 years and came to the realization that they are predictable. Everyone knows what's coming so mix it up. The difference in 2016 was a third year DW that could cover for mistakes.
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National Champion [8046]
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Re: TNET: Elliott looking for answers to slow starts on offense
Oct 15, 2018, 5:55 PM
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That and they gave him the ability to change a play based on if he thought the play would work or not at the line of scrimmage!
Has TL got there yet? Unclear at this point. He has the intelligence to get there and will get there I have no doubt. DW4 often checked out of plays or changed the protection based on the look the defense gave. That's where we could stand to get way waaaaaay better at!
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Gridiron Giant [15431]
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Re: TNET: Elliott looking for answers to slow starts on offense
Oct 15, 2018, 8:23 PM
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Fully agree!
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Paw Master [16774]
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I would assume it's the crappy scripted plays we use to
Oct 15, 2018, 5:53 PM
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start the games, once we get away from the"gameplan" we seem to do a lot more damage...But all the screens and read option dives we lead with are just a waste
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Game Changer [2088]
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Re: I would assume it's the crappy scripted plays we use to
Oct 15, 2018, 5:57 PM
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Send everyone deep on the first play of the game and score in the first 10 seconds like Bama does.
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110%er [9174]
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Rival Killer [2683]
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+1 Shack, that was my first thought too when reading the
Oct 16, 2018, 6:16 AM
[ in reply to I would assume it's the crappy scripted plays we use to ] |
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article as that's the one common thread each game, the same scripted plays each game. Our opponents watch film too and know pretty much what to expect!
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Paw Master [16681]
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Legend [6876]
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All due respect, he answered own query, run don't hand off
Oct 15, 2018, 6:08 PM
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to ETN!
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Legend [6876]
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Re: All due respect, he answered own query, hand off, don't
Oct 15, 2018, 6:10 PM
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pass to ETN.
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Top TigerNet [30346]
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Re: TNET: Here's a novel thought, Tony.....
Oct 15, 2018, 6:35 PM
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stop calling tunnel screens.
You're welcome.
RB
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Commissioner [930]
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Part Of The Slow Start....
Oct 15, 2018, 7:12 PM
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Isn't the starting QB anymore . It'll take time to get the game plan wrapped around TL . By the time we play the dirtpeckers I think everything will be completely dialed in.
Let's not forget that this team is 46-4 over the last few years. That's pretty dang good in anyone's book; in the dirtpeckers realm it's a dream...that'll never come true .
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Walk-On [141]
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Re: Part Of The Slow Start....
Oct 15, 2018, 7:40 PM
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It appears we have given up on use of the tight ends. Vanilla play calling is a problem.
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Recruit [97]
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I thought about that watching A&M and remembering
Oct 15, 2018, 7:44 PM
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Rock Defender [56]
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Re: I thought about that watching A&M and remembering
Oct 15, 2018, 8:23 PM
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Does anyone know the if Feaster is ok?
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Gridiron Giant [15431]
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Re: Part Of The Slow Start....
Oct 15, 2018, 8:35 PM
[ in reply to Re: Part Of The Slow Start.... ] |
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Amen! The TEs are the forgotten offensive weapons (except for blocking). Galloway is a very good receiving TE and has proven it when he has been given the chance. He hasn't fully developed yet to Legget's size and hasn't become the blocker yet but he will get there. As a matter of fact, all thebTEsvcan catch and need to be used. There are not many Line Backers that will ever cover them because they have to worry about ETN and the other backs. Then the safeties and corners better be worried about the wide receivers or they are going to give up chunk play after chunk play. Result: TE is open. Just use all the weapons.
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All-Conference [402]
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Re: Part Of The Slow Start....
Oct 16, 2018, 7:40 AM
[ in reply to Part Of The Slow Start.... ] |
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Of those 4 losses, two were due to the defense, one was due to key injuries, and only one truly the offense's fault.
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Walk-On [121]
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Re: Part Of The Slow Start....
Oct 16, 2018, 3:01 PM
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Please explain?
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Paw Master [16774]
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110%er [3631]
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Re: Are you blaming the Defense for the Pitt loss?***
Oct 16, 2018, 5:41 PM
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While that might be an oversimplification, how can you disagree?
Our two losses DW4's last two years, our D/ST gave up 40 and 43 points. How can you blame the offense?
Even with a couple TOs, you can't. Deshaun threw for--what? 996 yards in those two games? Set an ACC record vs. Pitt and a CFP record vs. Bama.
The only loss due to the offense underperforming was under KB vs Bama in the 2017 CFP.
Unless you want to blame the SYR loss on the poor QB play. That's kinda unfair.
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Orange Blooded [2379]
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Don't run the bubble screen until you have established
Oct 15, 2018, 8:36 PM
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the run and the downfield pass. The pass plays that work for us are the skinny post, slants, and the play-action to the tight end down the middle. The screen will ONLY be effective after you convince the defense that you will (a) run the ball, and (b) throw the ball downfield. It's not rocket science.
The reason for the slow starts is predictability... we waste one down in each series by throwing the bubble screen, and that puts us behind the chains.
And here's the real winner... fake the screen and go deep!
Message was edited by: 7173TIGER®
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Valley Legend [13053]
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I wish I could like this post 1000 times***
Oct 15, 2018, 9:12 PM
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Rival Killer [2806]
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EXACTLY. DISTURBING that Elliott can't figure this out...
Oct 15, 2018, 11:51 PM
[ in reply to Don't run the bubble screen until you have established ] |
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on his own.
I spend the first half pissed at how predictable and crappy our behind the LOS play-calling is. It's like he's trying to set up 3rd and longs and then runs 20-30 yard routes while the D is blitzing us.
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All-TigerNet [10825]
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Valley Legend [13053]
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Is this The Onion?***
Oct 15, 2018, 9:12 PM
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Orange Blooded [2312]
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LOL
Oct 15, 2018, 9:44 PM
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“It’s hard to play off-script”. Hey man, that’s like, your job and stuff. If you’re telling me you don’t have any sort of contingency plan in the first couple scripted series and you are completely tied to whatever dippy tunnel screens you’ve drawn up, we’ve got big problems.
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Team Captain [489]
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Re: TNET: Elliott looking for answers to slow starts on offense
Oct 15, 2018, 9:48 PM
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We need to have formations and motion that NC State has not seen on film this year on the first couple of drives. We get an early lead and we can go back to running three rock with play action down the field.
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Dynasty Maker [3513]
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Re: TNET: Elliott looking for answers to slow starts on offense
Oct 15, 2018, 10:00 PM
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Especially with 2 weeks to prepare a scripted first drive, what about use some new plays.
I mean come on now the predictable first drive that we usually run looks like lazy coaching to me.
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Recruit [97]
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Re: TNET: Elliott looking for answers to slow starts on offense
Oct 15, 2018, 11:56 PM
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For anyone that never watched a heavyweight boxing match, the first round is nothing more than a lot of dancing and feeling each other out. You make a mistake early without measuring your opponent and it might be lights out for you. I have no problem with the slow starts against really good teams. As long as we're still standing when the match is over.
That said, the first play should be a deep route to the boundary, but the OLine had better pass-block their butts off. Otherwise, we lose our starting QB on the first play.
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1st Rounder [645]
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Re: TNET: Elliott looking for answers to slow starts on offense
Oct 16, 2018, 12:09 AM
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+1. Agreed sir. The first three plays to start the game are well known. Put RENFROW on a modified post for the first play out of the gate. The reception, if the pass is anywhere close, will be caught and we shake up the routine a bit. Get tired of eating the same salad put a different dressing on it. Don’t leave hands like RENFROW ‘s sitting until third down.
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Dynasty Maker [3211]
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Re: TNET: Elliott looking for answers to slow starts on offense
Oct 16, 2018, 6:17 AM
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Pass, pass, pass every down. It will open up the run, get TL in the groove early and it just might hit for a TD.
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All-Conference [402]
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Are you insane?
Oct 16, 2018, 7:44 AM
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Four things can happen when you pass, three of which are bad.
We've got the backs and the OL to just RUN THE #### BALL. Let the run open up the pass. Trevor is good, but let's not make things harder than they have to be for him.
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Walk-On [121]
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Re: TNET: Elliott looking for answers to slow starts on offense
Oct 16, 2018, 3:16 PM
[ in reply to Re: TNET: Elliott looking for answers to slow starts on offense ] |
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Agree 100%. I have often wondered why when interviewed some of the best DB's say don't talk smack about getting beat by Renfrow unless you've tried it. Every announcer, opposing coach, opposing defense know on 3rd and impossible we are going to Renfrow and he still makes the catch. Why not use him in every situation in which something is not going right offensively? Seems simple and usually that is what you aim for, simplied solutions.
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Rival Killer [2683]
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Gotta love all the coaching help TNET provides!!***
Oct 16, 2018, 6:21 AM
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Dynasty Maker [3211]
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Re: Gotta love all the coaching help TNET provides!!***
Oct 16, 2018, 6:52 AM
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Message board "help" kind of goes with the idea it's a sports' message board.
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All-Conference [402]
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Are those designed bubble screens?
Oct 16, 2018, 8:19 AM
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I don't think those are designed bubble screens, but rather RPOs.
The logic is that if there is nothing in the middle for the run, the outside will be open and you can hit on a bubble screen. Usually, it goes nowhere, but when it works, it can go for a big gain.
Going downfield on an RPO risks getting flagged for ineligible man downfield because your linemen are blocking it like a run. So you have to throw behind the LOS.
RPOs were dangerous when we had Deshaun Watson, Mike Williams, Artavis Scott, and Wayne Gallman. They don't make a lot of sense with the talent we had last year and the talent we have this year. There was no point in having Kelly Bryant throw sideways across the field. Trevor can make the throws, but he's no real threat to run it himself, so that's one less thing the defense has to worry about. He also trusts his arm more than his RBs, which is probably a mistake.
This scheme was designed to use a mobile QB and WRs to make up for our deficiencies in our running game and that doesn't make sense any more.
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Dynasty Maker [3268]
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My answer may be different than most...
Oct 16, 2018, 8:20 AM
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I see a couple people here saying that we need to s-c-r-i-p-t (edited for filter) the first series... I'm pretty sure that's exactly the problem. The first 2-3 series we usually DO have scripted and they are pretty predictable. If I can narrow down the playbook that we have on the first 2-3 series, then I'm pretty sure opposing coaches can as well.
Our offense stops moving when we are in situations that we are more predictable. Why would we want to ###### a series when our scripting is generally predictable?
My answer is open up the playbook on the first 2-3 series. Allow Trevor to have a few checks into different plays. That's what we do the rest of the game and it generally works. Try to get through the first 2-3 series WITHOUT a bubble screen. I actually like that we have that play, but it's the most predictable thing we do in our first 2-3 series. Throw the ball downfield on first down during the first 2-3 series. If they cheat in because they know we don't usually do that, check to Higgins/Ross and burn them.
I'm not going to pretend to know more about coaching offense than Elliott/Scott, but that's my observation of the first 2-3 series when I think about how to defend us. That's exactly what I would NOT want them to change if I were the defense - which is probably why we need to change it.
Message was edited by: kgpittm®
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Varsity [232]
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More North/South and less East/West***
Oct 16, 2018, 8:34 AM
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Mascot [18]
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We just haven't found the right screen to call yet***
Oct 16, 2018, 9:01 AM
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Rival Killer [2756]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Set them up the bomb***
Oct 16, 2018, 9:23 AM
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Standout [205]
TigerPulse: 84%
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I think this is one thing that hurt Kelly Bryant
Oct 16, 2018, 12:30 PM
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Clemson has started slowly in every game this year, regardless of who the QB was. As the starter of the first four games, Bryant was held responsible for his and his teammates' sluggish performance in the first couple of series. By the time the team was warmed up, it was time to put Lawrence in, so he got the benefit and Bryant got the blame. I'm not saying that Lawrence wasn't more productive even after the rest of the offense woke up, and I'm not questioning the coaches' decision to reward Lawrence. But this has been a case where being the starter could bring a QB's overall numbers down.
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Paw Master [16774]
TigerPulse: 91%
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Posts: 26997
Joined: 2003
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His inability to make even a single read hurt him worse***
Oct 16, 2018, 12:48 PM
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110%er [3631]
TigerPulse: 96%
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Re: I think this is one thing that hurt Kelly Bryant
Oct 16, 2018, 3:01 PM
[ in reply to I think this is one thing that hurt Kelly Bryant ] |
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While i agree with you, the conservative play-calling on first possession has a purpose.
KB's conservative execution on all play-calling did not.
TL checked out of more bad playcalls in his first three games than KB did in 4 years. If KB didn't like a play call, he ran the play anyway--but kept the football.
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