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Scout Team [166]
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ACC got outmaneuvered. Is any Tiger fan REALLY surprised?
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Aug 9, 2023, 11:30 AM
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With Swofford's corrupt and short-sighted regime and all the terrible decision-making it did as the landscape began to change, it's no surprise that the ACC has ultimately lost out to the SEC, etc. who were proactive and rolling with the punches and have come out ahead. ACC is now on life-support and is all but dead. It crushes me that this is where Clemson and the conference are, but it's the truth. ACC DONE and Clemson screwed over.
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110%er [8563]
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Re: ACC got outmaneuvered. Is any Tiger fan REALLY surprised?
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Aug 9, 2023, 11:49 AM
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Swofford did not approve anything, the University Presidents did. Patience grasshopper, we have plenty of money.
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All-TigerNet [13579]
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Re: ACC got outmaneuvered. Is any Tiger fan REALLY surprised?
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Aug 9, 2023, 11:58 AM
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Swofford brought them to the well and they drank the Kool Aid. The sin was not in the initial signing which at the time did make financial sense. The sin was the length of the extension crafted in 2016 and locking us in for the next 20 years. As fast as things change, no one would generally go for that which is why none of the other conferences are in the mess that the ACC is in and why they have been able to make the moves to strengthen their conference while we watch ours getting weaker and less competitive.
Message was edited by: slwcu79®
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110%er [6970]
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Contracts should be reviewed every 5 years. 20 is wayyyy
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Aug 9, 2023, 12:07 PM
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too long.
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Oculus Spirit [90916]
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Yep…
Aug 9, 2023, 12:11 PM
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to all the above!
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Oculus Spirit [77309]
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All-TigerNet [13579]
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Re: ACC got outmaneuvered. Is any Tiger fan REALLY surprised?
Aug 9, 2023, 1:28 PM
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His responses are a mile wide and an inch deep...
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Orange Blooded [4023]
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Re: ACC got outmaneuvered. Is any Tiger fan REALLY surprised?
Aug 9, 2023, 1:27 PM
[ in reply to Re: ACC got outmaneuvered. Is any Tiger fan REALLY surprised? ] |
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Could we have gotten a better deal if we were negotiating a new deal next year? Would anyone be willing to pay BIG/SEC type money right now for the ACC? I'm not sure that they would.
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All-TigerNet [13579]
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Re: ACC got outmaneuvered. Is any Tiger fan REALLY surprised?
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Aug 9, 2023, 1:33 PM
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We would have been ia a much stronger negotiating position with the media contracts and could have been more competitive in expansion without the GOR around our necks. Now, the only teams interested in us are the ones with few options but need a better conference home.
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Orange Blooded [4023]
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Re: ACC got outmaneuvered. Is any Tiger fan REALLY surprised?
Aug 9, 2023, 1:36 PM
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The GOR is Clemson's albatross, but not the ACC's. How would the ACC have been in a stronger negotiating position? They would have been weaker because Clemson/FSU would have probably already bolted. There aren't any teams available for expansion that would pay for themselves, much less increase revenue per team.
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All-TigerNet [13579]
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Re: ACC got outmaneuvered. Is any Tiger fan REALLY surprised?
Aug 9, 2023, 1:43 PM
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Your original premise was could we have been more competitive without our current contract restrictions. My response is, yes, if we had moved quicker than the B1G once the SEC made their moves.
Do you really think the better teams would have wanted to join the ACC and inherit the agreements in place with the ACC? As these media contracts skyrocket over time, we will be locked in for the next 13 years.
We are not an attractive alternative unless you are really desperate.
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Orange Blooded [4023]
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Re: ACC got outmaneuvered. Is any Tiger fan REALLY surprised?
Aug 9, 2023, 1:48 PM
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What moves could we have made? Do you believe Texas/Oklahoma would have decided to join the ACC versus the SEC? Would USC/UCLA have chosen to join the ACC over the BIG?
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Letterman [255]
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Orange Blooded [4023]
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Re: ACC got outmaneuvered. Is any Tiger fan REALLY surprised?
Aug 9, 2023, 1:24 PM
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I'm not sure what else could have been done. At this point, expansion only works if you bring in major players. There isn't any teams we could have added that would have made the ACC more profitable. Our TV deal is not bad on it's own. Really, what could the ACC have done to stop Tex/OU from going to the SEC and USC/UCLA going to the BIG and thus getting ridiculous new TV deals? (Yea, they are ridiculous and will fox/ESPN regret throwing out that kind of money?)
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CU Guru [1269]
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Re: ACC got outmaneuvered. Is any Tiger fan REALLY surprised?
Aug 9, 2023, 1:34 PM
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Birmingham you have forgotten that we don't deal in reality when it comes to our beloved Tiger football. Go Tigers Fight
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All-TigerNet [13579]
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Re: ACC got outmaneuvered. Is any Tiger fan REALLY surprised?
Aug 9, 2023, 1:34 PM
[ in reply to Re: ACC got outmaneuvered. Is any Tiger fan REALLY surprised? ] |
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We should have done exactly what the B1G did. After the SEC made their moves, we should have recognized the need and urgency to make our own moves before someone else did.
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Orange Blooded [4023]
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Re: ACC got outmaneuvered. Is any Tiger fan REALLY surprised?
Aug 9, 2023, 1:38 PM
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What realistic moves could ACC have made?
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All-TigerNet [13579]
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Re: ACC got outmaneuvered. Is any Tiger fan REALLY surprised?
Aug 9, 2023, 1:47 PM
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We got outmaneuvered on two fronts. We signed an agreement and then extended it for 20 years that locked us in. The SEC and B1G did not do that which gave them more flexibility with expansion.
Second, we sat back and watched things unfold instead of trying to expand ourselves and compete for some of the better programs. Even when we had a chance to put something together as an alliance with the PAC, we moved too slowly and individual teams quickly got picked off, killing that deal.
We played checkers while the B1G and SEC were playing 4D chess.
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Orange Blooded [4023]
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Re: ACC got outmaneuvered. Is any Tiger fan REALLY surprised?
Aug 9, 2023, 1:50 PM
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What better programs could we have added that would have been a net financial gain versus just another mouth to feed and increased travel costs? Everytime you expand, you split the pie even more.
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All-TigerNet [13579]
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Re: ACC got outmaneuvered. Is any Tiger fan REALLY surprised?
Aug 9, 2023, 1:55 PM
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Every move the B1G made was open for us as well. At the end of the day, the 2 Big Dog conferences are going to influence all of the decisions. Part of our expansion would have been defensive as well as offensive, meaning we were defending our flank to remain relevant as a conference.
Now, you have the SEC and B1G as the 2 alpha males driving the future direction and everyone else waiting to see what happens. We lost a lot of relevancy by falling further behind the Big 2.
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Orange Blooded [4023]
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Re: ACC got outmaneuvered. Is any Tiger fan REALLY surprised?
Aug 9, 2023, 1:58 PM
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You honestly believe we could have landed USC and UCLA?
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All-TigerNet [13579]
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Re: ACC got outmaneuvered. Is any Tiger fan REALLY surprised?
Aug 9, 2023, 2:04 PM
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You never know if you don't try. But to answer your question, no, because of the contractual limitations the ACC has incurred by making some very poor long-term decisions. The only move that we had a shot at was to lock down the PAC after UCLA and USC went to B1G but we didn't move with the urgency we needed.
It would not have been ideal, but for the other reasons I mentioned, it would have made us more of a player than we are now, narrowed the gap with the other 2 conferences, and given us a seat at the adult table, rather than the kid's table.
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All-TigerNet [13579]
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Re: ACC got outmaneuvered. Is any Tiger fan REALLY surprised?
Aug 9, 2023, 2:07 PM
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The other dumb thing we did was let the world know we were having discussions with the PAC. No one knew about TX and OK because the SEC did a great job of keeping their negotiations quiet. As soon as we mentioned meetings taking place with the PAC, the B1G moved right in and grabbed WA and OR and the Big 12 grabbed all but 4 of the others.
I mean how dumb can you really be?
Message was edited by: slwcu79®
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Orange Blooded [4023]
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Re: ACC got outmaneuvered. Is any Tiger fan REALLY surprised?
Aug 9, 2023, 2:29 PM
[ in reply to Re: ACC got outmaneuvered. Is any Tiger fan REALLY surprised? ] |
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There are no teams minus USC/UCLA that would add value to the ACC. It would just be more mouths to feed much higher expenses. The heart of the ACC is twice as far away from Cali than the heart of the BIG. The BIG also has higher fan attendance and overall interest among their schools.
The Pac12 schools choosing the BIG over the ACC is not getting out maneuvered. That's just reality and common sense.
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All-TigerNet [13579]
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Re: ACC got outmaneuvered. Is any Tiger fan REALLY surprised?
Aug 9, 2023, 3:00 PM
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Then why are we trying to add Stanford, Cal and SMU if they offer no value?
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All-TigerNet [13579]
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Re: ACC got outmaneuvered. Is any Tiger fan REALLY surprised?
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Aug 9, 2023, 3:04 PM
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Put another way, would we be even talking to these teams if we didn't find ourselves in this position in the first place?
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Orange Blooded [4023]
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Re: ACC got outmaneuvered. Is any Tiger fan REALLY surprised?
Aug 9, 2023, 3:09 PM
[ in reply to Re: ACC got outmaneuvered. Is any Tiger fan REALLY surprised? ] |
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They are exploring to see if these schools add value, especially if Clemson/FSU are bound to bolt at some point. It's unlikely that adding these schools will add to the overall payout of each school. It will probably diminish it. But the lesser ACC schools would benefit in that it would add more voting members, thus making it more difficult for us and FSU to leave.
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All-TigerNet [13579]
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Re: ACC got outmaneuvered. Is any Tiger fan REALLY surprised?
Aug 9, 2023, 3:11 PM
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OK, you just said they wouldn't add value so why bother? I'm beginning to understand why your pulse is 65.
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Orange Blooded [4023]
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Re: ACC got outmaneuvered. Is any Tiger fan REALLY surprised?
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Aug 9, 2023, 3:14 PM
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Tell me how adding those 2 schools is going to increase our payout? They ranked 44th and 45th in viewers in 2022.
Message was edited by: BirminghamTiger®
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All-TigerNet [13579]
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Re: ACC got outmaneuvered. Is any Tiger fan REALLY surprised?
Aug 9, 2023, 3:15 PM
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I think I've tried to be patient and explain to you quite a bit. Unfortunately, I can't help you with comprehension.
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Orange Blooded [4023]
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Re: ACC got outmaneuvered. Is any Tiger fan REALLY surprised?
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Aug 9, 2023, 3:19 PM
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I'm waiting for you to explain how the 44th and 45th most watched teams that reside 2000 miles away are going to bring in more revenue that will offset additional costs. Please elaborate.
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All-TigerNet [13579]
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Re: ACC got outmaneuvered. Is any Tiger fan REALLY surprised?
Aug 9, 2023, 3:23 PM
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And you might want to send the ACC Commish that question and see what he says. After all, one assumes they have their reasons for pursuing it.
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All-TigerNet [13579]
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Re: ACC got outmaneuvered. Is any Tiger fan REALLY surprised?
Aug 9, 2023, 3:20 PM
[ in reply to Re: ACC got outmaneuvered. Is any Tiger fan REALLY surprised? ] |
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I never said they should be added in the first place. I've said the ACC screwed the pooch so bad that this is their response, which isn't a good one, but it seems to be the only options they have left. We can sit tight with what we have but what we have probably isn't going to sit tight with us for very long.
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Orange Blooded [4023]
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Re: ACC got outmaneuvered. Is any Tiger fan REALLY surprised?
Aug 9, 2023, 3:24 PM
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I agree with you on that. But there really were not any realistic moves to make. Our conference is limited as to what it has to offer to a TV audience.
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All-TigerNet [13579]
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Re: ACC got outmaneuvered. Is any Tiger fan REALLY surprised?
Aug 9, 2023, 3:29 PM
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Which puts us back to the question of why are we so desperate to add these other teams in the first place? We should just admit the Big 2 got the best of us but I think they feel like if they don't add these other teams, even if it is not a good move financially, they think it at least shows we are doing something to try and stay within striking distance of the other two.
As I said before, they would not be pursuing this if they didn't feel like they needed to. It seems to be more of a strategic move rather than a financial move at this point.
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All-TigerNet [13579]
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Re: ACC got outmaneuvered. Is any Tiger fan REALLY surprised?
Aug 9, 2023, 3:34 PM
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We also can't totally leave out the academic piece of this. You'd never have a Stanford or a Cal-Berkeley looking to join your conference without something extraordinary happening. Maybe the ACC doesn't care that much about the athletic impact and simply wants to seize the moment for the academic benefit and cache of having these 2 premier institutions be a part of your future. There would be a lot of research opportunities and collaborations that could drive a lot of future funding on the academic side.
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CU Medallion [52815]
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Re: ACC got outmaneuvered. Is any Tiger fan REALLY surprised?
Aug 9, 2023, 1:53 PM
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Simple answer: NO!
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Orange Blooded [4814]
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Re: ACC got outmaneuvered. Is any Tiger fan REALLY surprised?
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Aug 9, 2023, 2:44 PM
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Being outmanuevered implies we have been doing maneuvering. Sounds like we signed this monstrous contract seven years ago and then went on permanent vacation while the world of college football completely changed around us. Even now ACC "leadership" is bouncing around from one terrible idea to another like a drunk a last call.
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Orange Blooded [4023]
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Re: ACC got outmaneuvered. Is any Tiger fan REALLY surprised?
Aug 9, 2023, 2:53 PM
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What realistic move should they have made?
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All-TigerNet [13579]
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Re: ACC got outmaneuvered. Is any Tiger fan REALLY surprised?
Aug 9, 2023, 4:33 PM
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This is what I was alluding to in some of my comments:
Andrea Adelson
@aadelsonESPN
I want to piggyback off this from
@ADavidHaleJoint
earlier - why expand the ACC even if there is no $ windfall? Additional security into the future. I was told: "It's a numbers game. Number of league members." Easy to start figuring out the rest from there ...
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Scout Team [166]
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Replies: 40
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