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All-In [42151]
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A whole lotta wrong going around
Nov 23, 2004, 10:54 AM
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Pardon me while I climb up on my trusty high horse. Steady boy. Yes, boy, I know you're nervous after that barn incident with Ut.
There's a whole lotta wrong going around lately. Unfortunately, bad cases of kneejerkitis can often cause folks to make some pretty bad decisions... like storming a field for a fight. But there's no need to rehash that one...
Look, Mr. Barker and Mr. Phillips, I know y'all are pretty smart guys. But yesterday you made an extremely dumb decision. I know you and other fans thought it was the appropriate action to take. You know, send a strong message of discipline to the rest of the college football world.
That's very noble... and very naive.
We don't have to get into the semantics of who was wrong in the fight. I think it's clear that both sides were wrong. But rather than address the brawl on a case by case basis, you took out a baseball bat and just started bashing the whole group in hopes of nailing the guilty.
Let's break down why your decision is wrong:
-You never, ever, EVER, in any case of discipline, punish the entire group for the actions of a few. This ineffective form of punishment has been tried for centuries on many, many levels. It is NEVER effective. The intent of the punishers is to turn the innocent on the guilty and teach the guilty that they're hurting the group. Sure, some of the innocent might turn on the guilty. But in the end, all of the innocent don't blame the guilty. They blame the punishers. And now you've just turned a lot of innocent young men and some of your employees against you.
-Following that theme, you send a horrendous message to recruits: If you come to Clemson and keep your nose clean, you still might get punished for someone else's actions.
-There are young men on this team who did nothing wrong and gave their all for Clemson for four years. They thought with a win Saturday, they would play in one last game before moving on with their lives. Now they're left with only a sour memory from Saturday.
-You've turned a large portion of the fan base against you. I don't think I need to elaborate the implications of this, but keep it in mind when you keep begging for money for the five different fundraising efforts. You demand so much from us fans over and over and then you...
-Punish the fans as a whole as well. Yep, that's right. The innocent group isn't just the players and coaches. It's us, too. How is my uncle supposed to explain this to his 10-year-old grandson, who, after the Miami game, called him up and asked, "Papa, what bowl game do I get to go with you to?" You didn't just punish the innocent players and coaches. You punished people like him.
It saddens me to think that you made this decision possibly because the University of South Carolina forced your hand. I would like to think you'd base your decisions on what's right... not on some knee-jerk whim for good publicity.
When you punish the whole, the innocent will turn on you.
Steady, boy, I'm not climbing down yet. There's another group spreading a whole lotta wrong around.
This next portion is directed at the certain fans threatening boycotts, IPTAY cancellations and other measures to "get back" at Clemson officials for their decision.
Again, very noble in standing up for your cause... and also very stupid and very naive.
There are plenty of people inside Clemson's halls who serve only themselves and not the University. Barker and Phillips are not two of these people. People inside Clemson's administration make mistakes. Some of them make decisions that really hurt the school, such as Barker and Phillips' decision.
But when you decide to withdraw support from Clemson because of the actions of a few, you as well are hurting the school with your decision.
Are you catching my drift? You're making the same mistake that Barker and Phillips made: You're punishing those who don't deserve to be punished. You're punishing the innocent players. You're punishing the innocent students. You're punishing the innocent coaches. And you're punishing you're fellow fans.
Don't let a bad case of kneejerkitis cloud your judgment. There are ways you can battle their decision without withdrawing support for your school. Don't walk away from the problem in a huff and create a bigger one. Work to fix the problem.
Because, again, when you punish the whole, the innocent don't blame the guilty. They blame the punishers.
Okay, I'm climbing down now. Thanks for listening.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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I wholeheartedly agree!!!***
Nov 23, 2004, 10:57 AM
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Legend [16058]
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His email address is pterry@clemson.edu...
Nov 23, 2004, 10:58 AM
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You should sent that to him. (minus the part about Ut)
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Devotee [203]
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Im not saying I agree with it, but did you happen to see
Nov 23, 2004, 11:01 AM
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NIGHTLINE last night ABC after the MNF game?
It was there "whats wrong with sports edition?" talked abnout the NBA fight as well as ClemsonUSC one.. .showed whole thing and then Said Kellys quote " at least the fans didnt get involved" and Bowden's NBA reference
made our University look horrible. I feel bad for graduates, students, players, recruits.
I hadnt agreed with the decision but that changed my mind
made me sick that someone besides "espn" viewed it that bad on national TV.
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110%er [5436]
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O-linemen fron USC said the samething
Nov 23, 2004, 11:05 AM
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Funny how know heard that interview.
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Walk-On [117]
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Catahoula uber alles!***
Nov 23, 2004, 11:04 AM
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110%er [5406]
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HOF post. Well said, Catahoula.***
Nov 23, 2004, 11:06 AM
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Hall of Famer [23693]
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Naive=knave?***
Nov 23, 2004, 11:08 AM
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null [65]
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Right on as usual, Cata...***
Nov 23, 2004, 11:10 AM
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110%er [7714]
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I have to respectfully disagree
Nov 23, 2004, 11:14 AM
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This wasnt a case of punishing everyone for the actions of a few. The entire benches cleared. Thats unacceptable in all sports and usually results in severe penalties....i.e expulsions, fines, suspensions, etc. Last time I checked this is a team sport, and being that the entire team left the sideline, you have to be prepared to face the music on the ramifications of such an action.
To me the penalties enforced by TDP were realisic, although I would bet the barn we wouldnt be facing this type of penalty if we were BCS bound. But after weighing the negatives and the positives of declining a 3rd tier bowl invitation, i say the right choice was made. Its sad for the seniors, but maybe they'll learn a lessen about getting stiffed in life.....God knows it happens to me all the time.
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MVP [502]
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Couldn't have said it better...worst situation in 22 years
Nov 23, 2004, 11:15 AM
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I haven't felt this despondent about Clemson athletics since we played dead before the ACC and accepted the 3rd year of probation in 1982. What's worse now is our prez is at least a CU grad. Et tu, Jim?
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All-TigerNet [12270]
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i disagree in part.
Nov 23, 2004, 11:19 AM
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i grew up with six brothers and three sisters and when one of us did something wrong and my parents didn't know who did it we were all punished if the guilty party didn't step forward to take the punishment this worked real well. imo tdp should have given the quilty a chance to step up and take the blame and if no one had the balls to do that then punish the whole team.
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All-In [42151]
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Did the guilty really have to step forward?
Nov 23, 2004, 11:24 AM
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I think the footage shows who is guilty on our side.
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All-TigerNet [12270]
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Re: Did the guilty really have to step forward?
Nov 23, 2004, 11:31 AM
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you have a point there!
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All-TigerNet [11181]
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I have to agree with Sav82 on that one but
Nov 23, 2004, 12:15 PM
[ in reply to i disagree in part. ] |
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i agree with the rest of the original post
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Enthusiast [78]
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Bravo! Bravo!***
Nov 23, 2004, 11:21 AM
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null [22]
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Better article than anything I've seen in the paper. Thanks*
Nov 23, 2004, 11:28 AM
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nm
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null [41]
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Have any of you seen Full Metal Jacket?
Nov 23, 2004, 11:34 AM
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In basic training the innocent get punished all the time for the actions of the guilty. Remember what happens to Private Pyle? He gets a soap party in his bunk from the innocent because they are tired of the guilty getting them in trouble. The innocent in this case do turn on the guilty instead of the punisher. I just hope animosity doesn't set among the players.
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All-In [42151]
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That's a movie, not real life.***
Nov 23, 2004, 11:35 AM
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null [41]
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Re: That's a movie, not real life.***
Nov 23, 2004, 11:48 AM
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Granted. I was just making a point that that sometimes the innocent do turn on those directly responsible instead of those dishing out widespread punishment. But it does happen in the military, even still today.
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Hall of Famer [24477]
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Are we absolutely positive that the UCS bench came onto
Nov 23, 2004, 11:44 AM
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the field first, or was it a case of both benches coming to an on-the-field fight? I have not heard one way or the other. If UCS went first, and we can prove it, then IMO we go to the bowl - a person cannot stand 20 feet away and let 5 guys beat up 1. But if we left the sidelines in reacton to the on the field fight we stay home. IMO, the fact the 25 or so players are not inclucded in that "we" makes no difference.
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All-In [42151]
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The footage shows...
Nov 23, 2004, 11:47 AM
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That USC's bench made it out to the middle of the field first.
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Expert [1841]
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Some of it is coming from you.
Nov 23, 2004, 11:54 AM
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I don't disagree with you often, Cata, but there will only be certain opportunities to so strongly shape the impact of our athletic program. I think we've sort of stolen a victory in integrity from a loss of face. No bowl trip to Boise or Wisacky could be worth sacrificing credibility, and that's what we'd have done if we suspended a few players and tried to sweep this under the rug.
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Legend [17753]
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Integrity more important than one lousy bowl!***
Nov 23, 2004, 12:25 PM
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