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Varsity [246]
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#7 ESPN Recruiting......and it's because.........
Jun 19, 2011, 9:32 AM
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"Something special is in the air at Clemson".
We are killing it on the recruiting trail right now, and although we may see some fruit this year, we will really be a force to be reckoned with in 2012 moving forward.
Dabo is building a championship program. It's only a matter of time before we see these results on the field. I smell a national championship in the next 3 years. Yes, I said it, we will be that good.
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Heisman Winner [111519]
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Re: #7 ESPN Recruiting......and it's because.........
Jun 19, 2011, 9:34 AM
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an ACC title would be a nice start, we are long overdue.
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CU Medallion [51530]
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Hell, an undefeated season at home would be nice.***
Jun 19, 2011, 6:26 PM
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Starter [377]
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Re: #7 ESPN Recruiting......and it's because.........
Jun 19, 2011, 9:40 AM
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Well I dunno about a NC but to win the ACC would be nice seein as how FSU is also on the rise.. And VT will always be good, but i hope ur so right
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CU Guru [1679]
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Re: #7 ESPN Recruiting......and it's because.........
Jun 19, 2011, 10:19 AM
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Some people say that recruiting is over rated. And maybe so. However, I always say the best jockey in the world can't ride a nag to a Kentucky Derby victory. But, the worst jockey in the world certainly CAN ride a great horse to victory. Winning STARTS with good players.
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CU Guru [1636]
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Re: #7 ESPN Recruiting......and it's because.........
Jun 19, 2011, 10:55 AM
[ in reply to Re: #7 ESPN Recruiting......and it's because......... ] |
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VT has been overrated since the late 90s. Right now, Clemson and FSU are the only teams recruiting nationally, and hopefully the two of us start separating ourselves from the rest of the pack. Miami has the potential as well, but right now they are having an identity crisis.
The question is, can we finally overcome the Eagle-Turtle curse? No one is ever going to take us seriously as long as that curse continues. 11 times in history Maryland and Boston College have been on our schedule in the same year, and our record of beating them both in the same year is 1-10, with 1958 being the only year its been done.
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CU Guru [1110]
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VT overrated?
Jun 19, 2011, 3:35 PM
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Here's their record the last few years:
2010: 11-3
2009: 10-3
2008: 10-4
2007: 11-3
2006: 10-3
2005: 11-2
2004: 10-3
Like Nebraska in the 80s and 90s, they aren't going to overwhelm you with recruiting stars, but they do tend to win football games, and do so with impressive consistency.
So I guess it depends on what you mean by overrated, but they're probably the most consistent team in college football. I doubt there's another BCS team that has this kind of consistency in winning 10+ games every year.
I bring it up because they're the gold standard in the ACC right now. They haven't "recruited nationally" and haven't needed to. You almost never see them near the tops of the recruiting rankings. They just win. Looking forward to seeing us do the same.
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CU Guru [1636]
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I strongly stand by my statement
Jun 19, 2011, 8:36 PM
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I did some research for some smack talking hokies I know to show they're frauds. This has nothing to do with Clemson/VT; I fully admit they've owned us since '98 more than any other team, but mainly because our coaches were clueless. The only years they were really just way better than us was with Vick in 99 and 2000. All the other games were our coaches not having a clue.
I will repost what I showed some hokies and posted here recently. The hokies have inflated their record by beating up on weak Big East and ACC teams. VT has fallen flat on their face in statement games against SEC and Pac 10 teams. In the 80s Clemson proved we were not frauds by creating a rivalry with UGA, and beating Oklahoma, Nebraska, Penn State, Stanford, FSU, Illinois, and one of the best West VA teams ever.
If VT were for real, I wouldn't expect them to win all of the big games, but at least a few of them. They have 2 arguably good wins the past decade and a half: 2003 they beat Miami, the year Miami was still decent, but starting to slide into irrelevance, where they remain today. Miami also lost to a Tenn team that year that we whipped in a bowl. 2005 they beat WVU, but I wasn't sold on WVU that season because that was the 1st year of the butchered Big East. WVU beat UGA in a bowl that year because UGA started taking them seriously when it was too far-gone. The 28 unanswered points weren't enough, and that was the only decent team WVU beat in '05. Beating 8-5 LSU in 2002, 7-6 Tenn in 2009, and Big east Cincy in 2008 proved nothing for VT.
Here's my repost:
I'm sick of hearing about Va Tech, and how Beamer does so much with 3 star players. If you go back to the late 90s and look at their wins and losses, they're extremely overrated. Beamer's done a good job beating the scrubs in the Big East and ACC, but outside the ACC the talent gap with those 3 star players shows. In 99 they beat UAB, James Madison, and Big East teams to make the title and lose to FSU; 2000-2002 lost 3 straight to the best Miami teams in recent memory; 2004 lost to unbeatens USC and Auburn; 2006 lost to an average UGA team, 2007 ACC champs lost to SEC champ LSU 48-7 (Huge ammunition for the SEC), and to Kansas in bowl; 2008 finally won a BCS bowl against a Cincy team who'd gotten drilled by OU and UConn; 2009 lost to unbeaten Bama, and beat a 7-6 Tenn team in bowl; 2010 ACC champs lost to Boise State, James Madison, and were drilled by an at large BCS team Stanford.
Last year was probably the ACC's biggest embarrassment. Overrated VT again had a chance to prove their selves OOC but fell flat on their faces. No BCS conference champ should EVER lose to JMU, EVER. I hate when people say Boise State beat them twice. No way an Alabama or Texas would let JMU come in their stadium and beat them under any situation. VT is an average team with an inflated record by beating up on the Big East and ACC all of these years, and had they joined the SEC, Big 10, or Big 12 in 04 they wouldn't have won a single conference title. I know they own us right now, but that hasn't meant a thing since 1991.
If VT wants to earn respect, then they need to quit embarrassing the ACC in BCS bowls against Big East and at large teams; having INEXCUSABLE losses to JMU as the ACC’s champion, and humiliating losses to the SEC champ when they're the ACC champ, proving SEC fans right.
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Legend [16058]
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Uh...That doesn't prove that they are overrated...
Jun 20, 2011, 12:02 PM
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You didn't even mention any of their wins over top 25 teams.
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CU Guru [1636]
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You really didn't say this, did you?
Jun 19, 2011, 10:58 PM
[ in reply to VT overrated? ] |
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Sorry, I overlooked a lot of your post.
A team gains respect by going out of conference and proving that they can play with the best teams from any conference. I loved watching that Nebraska team of the 90s. I'm diehard Clemson, but I couldn't help but root for those guys because they were so fun to watch, and they MORE THAN GAINED respect. They were a dynasty. In '94 they beat Miami in the title, and 1995 was the funnest national title I ever witnessed. That was when Steve Spurrier's arrognace was at an all time high. Watching Nebraska make tools out of Spurrier and the gators in that 62-24 punishment is a game I'll never forget. In '97 they won the title by humiliating another SEC team, Tenn, 42-17. In '96, when they didn't play for the title, they played Va Tech and DESTROYED them in the Orange Bowl. Mentioning VT in the same sentence as NU of the 90s is a total disrespect. Plus they didn't have recruiting rankings then, so I don't know where their recruits would've ranked. Oh, and after Arizona State shocked NU in '96 after 26 straight wins, and 36 of their last 37, they didn't pull a James Madison. They did like an angry team should do and beat Colorado State, 65-9.
You lost all credibility when you called them the "gold standard of the ACC." VT is the ONLY BCS conference champ IN HISTORY to lose to a 1-AA team. They have represented the ACC HORRIBLY in big OOC games and BCS bowls. They're a HUGE reason why the ACC has no credibility. And I have no answer when people say, "is that the best y'all have?"
Tell me, what do you think their record would be in any conference but the ACC and Big East? Be honest. But I will give them credit for being consistent, as you said. I'll give them credit for consistenly beating Rutgers, Temple, Duke, Syracuse, and UVA to pad their record the past 15 years.
"Gold Standard for the ACC." All I can do is shake my head....
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CU Guru [1110]
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Key: "...OF THE ACC." Since they joined seven years ago...
Jun 20, 2011, 8:33 AM
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They won 4 out of the 7 titles. Isn't that pretty good? I mean, VT has won 4 titles, FSU, GT, and Wake have won once. Which team has been the best, by far, out of the ACC? Is it close?
I didn't say they were the gold standard of the *country*. They've never won a national title and won only one BCS game. That was against a pretty weak opponent by BCS standards.
Nothing that you said in this post do I disagree with, except they ARE the best team the ACC has had to offer year in, year out. The fact that since their inclusion into the conference, they've won more titles than any other team combined validates that statement.
And if that makes you shake your head, I understand. It ain't like they've been a top five team.
What got my attention about your original post is that you start off by discounting VT, then turn your attention to FSU. I don't think there's any evidence at all in the last seven years to suggest that VT is going anywhere at all.
I'm getting the sense that people believe -- and you didn't say this explicitly -- that if we just continue to recruit well, we'll blow right by the VTs of the world. This is not necessarily going to be the case. My point is that Nebraska didn't recruit all that well either back in the day, not that modern VT = 80s Nebraska.
As for your point about VT losing to JMU, they did. Horrible loss. How many losses did VT have to ACC teams last year? None.
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CU Guru [1636]
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Key: Winning the ACC means nothing
Jun 20, 2011, 1:23 PM
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I know I will get blasted for saying this, but the ACC has truly been an embarrassment this millennium. That's why I hate this conference, because even if we win it I don't think it's anything to brag about, not in its current state anyway. Someone has to win the ACC, right? Someone has to finish number one, but that doesn't mean they are good. In the 1980s Clemson did not become a national name by beating ACC teams. Clemson became a national team by beating Nebraska 22-15, Oklahoma 13-6, defending national champion Penn State 35-10, a good West Virginia team 27-7, Illinois 30-0, and Stanford 27-21. PLUS, we created a rivalry with UGA, which became a national rivalry, and was the rivalry of the south in the 80s. The series was very even, and so were the games. THAT is how you gain respect.
VT is the product of inflating their record beating scrub teams, and have proven time and time again that they can't hold their own with the best from other conferences. They have no respect from me. They own us, but unfortunately we've been lost for 20 years and are typical of other teams VT pads their record against. If the Clemson of the 80s; the FSU of the 90s; and Miami of the 80s and part of the 90s came back; VT would be an after-thought.
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CU Guru [1110]
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I don't disagree with any of that.
Jun 20, 2011, 4:11 PM
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The ACC was bad last year and worse the year before.
VT has been playing better teams of late, but like you said, they've lost those games.
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Legend [16058]
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Clemson, FSU, Nebraska, Tenn, GT, and Miami
Jun 20, 2011, 12:09 PM
[ in reply to You really didn't say this, did you? ] |
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All have lost to VT. They aren't just playing Duke and Vandy.
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CU Guru [1636]
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Please stop, here's all the proof you need
Jun 20, 2011, 1:09 PM
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This is just too funny. You just flat out have no argument here. I pointed out VT beating Miami in 2003, and WVU in 2005 as OK wins. But even those wins were questionable, because those Miami and WVU teams padded their records beating up on the same scrubs VT has always beat up on. If they had beaten USC or Auburn in 2004, or Alabama in 2009, those would be defining wins, w/o leaving any doubts. Their only "quality" wins have come against teams that play scrub teams like they do.
Are you talking about them beating GT in 2009? GT won the ACC title and could not even beat a UGA team that was REBUILDING, plus lost to Iowa, a team Northwestern beat. When UGA wins the SEC title can you imagine GT beating them? When UGA won the SEC in '02 they beat GT 51-7.
Nebraksa? Tennessee?
Let's see here. 2008: VT 35 Nebraska 30
VT record 10-4, Nebraksa 9-4
Nebraska wins: Western Michigan, San Jose State, New Mexico State. First 3 wins were against non-BCS schools. The rest: Iowa State(2-10), Baylor(4-8), Kansas(8-5), Kansas State(5-7), Colorado(5-7), and Clemson(7-6).
Dangit, I wish you hadn't brought that up, I didn't realize how truly pathetic our loss was to NU that year. 2 wins against BCS teams with winning records? VT still barely beat them: Quality win = FAIL!
Tennessee: Are you REALLY stretching so far to claim VT's 2009 win over a 7-6 Tenn team was quality? You do realize, that the Vols were bowl eligible that season because they beat Western Kentucky, Ohio, Memphis, Vanderbilt, and Kentucky? FAIL!
FSU last year was an average win. FSU's fans will be the first to say they were a year away, and were looking more towards 2011. They also were humiliated by Oklahoma, 47-17.
Clemson, I don't even have to go there, I've already explained my thoughts on that.
And FINALLY, for those of you who think VT is the team to emulate, then I guess this is good enough for you? Not for me:
Even if the Virginia Tech football team had managed to pull off an upset over No. 5 Stanford Monday night, its record facing top five opponents would have still been a point of contention. The Hokies were just 1-26 all-time -- and 1-18 during Coach Frank Beamer's tenure -- against top five opponents heading into this latest affair on the national stage.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/hokies-journal/2011/01/virginia_techs_struggles_conti.html
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CU Guru [1110]
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This was never my argument, though.
Jun 20, 2011, 4:22 PM
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You said: VT is overrated.
I think most people feel that VT is a top 20 team, year-in, year-out. I think that's fair.
I also claimed that they've been the best team in the ACC. Four titles in seven years as an ACC member, when nobody else even has two, backs that up.
I never said they were an elite team. I don't think they are an elite team. They don't beat the country's best teams and can't claim to be elite.
Honestly, that's all I'm trying to say. I don't know why that's even controversial.
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CU Guru [1636]
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Re: This was never my argument, though.
Jun 20, 2011, 8:18 PM
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You disagreed with me saying VT is overrated, and I was making my argument to why I feel that way.
Last year VT was talking national title, and 7 days later they were 0-2 watching James Madison celebrate on their field, so they were overrated. And there's been years like 2003 when they were preseason number 9 and finished unranked. Those are off the top of my head.
One of the biggest myths in the ACC is that "Frank Beamer takes 3 star talent and makes them 5 star players." That's simply incorrect. What Frank Beamer does is takes 3 star talent, and consistently beats other teams with 2 or 3 star talent.
VT has beaten FSU a couple of times, and FSU has out recruited them. But, that's not saying much, because FSU has vastly underachieved with the talent they've had since 2001. FSU's lost to Wake twice, South Florida, and Kentucky as well.
This article sums up what I was saying about VT. The only thing I disagree with is the author saying VT gets 5 star production out of 3 star players. No, VT gets the most out of 3 star players, and most of the time beats other teams like GT, NC State, UVA etc, who have 3 star players or less. If they got 5 star production they would beat the Alabamas, Stanfords, and Auburns of the world. That's the problem, when they play teams outside of UVA and GT those 3 star guys catch up w/them. That's why they'd be middle of the pack in the Big 12, Big 10, or SEC. The talent pool is much greater in those leagues than what they're used too.
This article also explains in good detail why VT has been more successful than Clemson; coaching. They nailed it. And once again this year, VT's schedule is a complete joke. The entire month of September is nothing but a scrimmage, leading to more deceiving/inflated wins and an undeserved ranking.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/597571-virginia-tech-exemplifies-why-recruiting-rankings-matter-for-successful-programs
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110%er [5434]
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Re: VT overrated?
Jun 20, 2011, 9:07 AM
[ in reply to VT overrated? ] |
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Like Nebraska??? Are you kidding me??
They were loaded and I mean loaded
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CU Guru [1110]
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Sorry, wasn't trying to say VT is as good as Nebraska was
Jun 20, 2011, 9:43 AM
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Not the 80s or 90s Nebraska, at least. I meant to say that you don't just look at recruiting rankings to determine how good a team is, or how they're going to be in a few years. VT is like Nebraska in that they often weren't at the top of the recruiting rankings.
VT has been very strong for the last decade. But Nebraska was truly elite. VT has never had the sustained dominance that Nebraska had during that time. And NU was really, really good for a lot longer than the 80s leading up to those titles in the 90s as well.
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110%er [5434]
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Re: Sorry, wasn't trying to say VT is as good as Nebraska was
Jun 21, 2011, 8:45 AM
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They didn't rank classes back then I think?
Nebraska hand picked who they wanted back then just look at the people they put in the pros
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Expert [1326]
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Re: VT overrated?
Jun 20, 2011, 11:56 AM
[ in reply to VT overrated? ] |
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I don't care if VT is overrated or not. I just wish we could develop players like Beamer does. If we could combine our recruiting abilities with VT's ability to develop, we would win the ACC and be NC contenders every year.
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Rock Defender [53]
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It's called great coaching.***
Jun 20, 2011, 12:26 PM
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Fan [92]
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I love what we're doin on the recruiting trail
Jun 19, 2011, 10:26 AM
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one thing that concerns me is after this season we're gonna need Brandon Thomas, Gifford Timothy, and Shaq Anthony to grow up fast because those our our only OT we have on the roster since 2009. Maybe some OG can convert to play OT like David Smith. When we recruited Reid Webster I thought he was an OT, but seems they're playing him at OG.
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All-In [27371]
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Re: I love what we're doin on the recruiting trail
Jun 19, 2011, 10:53 AM
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I am not sure about championships but I would love to see Clemson return to the old days of 80,000+ crowds and an electric atmosphere in the Valley every saturday with nothing but POSITIVE fans showing up. That would be a good start and something that is definately 'do-able'!
GO TIGERS,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
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Orange Blooded [2441]
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Let's see results in the fall before we get too excited
Jun 19, 2011, 3:24 PM
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about February. We have had a lot more good Februarys in the past ten years than we have had good falls.
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Amateur [47]
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I'm just asking, but is anybody hesitant about strong...
Jun 20, 2011, 1:39 PM
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recruiting since TB? I have to see it to believe it.
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110%er [6577]
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I hope that "something special in the air" is the
Jun 19, 2011, 6:40 PM
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smell of Championships... otherwise, who gives a crap about out recruiting rankings.
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