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YOUR BALANCE
Constitutional rights
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Constitutional rights


Apr 8, 2020, 9:13 PM

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/judge-andrew-napolitano-liberty-coronavirus


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Re: Constitutional rights


Apr 8, 2020, 9:49 PM

Football??

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Re: Constitutional rights


Apr 8, 2020, 9:57 PM

Nope posted it in amphitheater. Not sure how it got here. Thanks for the heads up.

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Re: Constitutional rights


Apr 8, 2020, 9:53 PM

No , you're free to get it and die .

Sometimes our rights as free men have to be curtailed so that we and our fellows stay alive .
It's not about the constitution in the face of a worldwide pandemic , it's about humanity .

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DB23


^ This***


Apr 8, 2020, 9:54 PM



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"I've played multiple sports and would bet any amount that I'm still more athletic than you at this present time...."


Re: Constitutional rights


Apr 8, 2020, 10:01 PM [ in reply to Re: Constitutional rights ]

It’s about our rights as Americans and the health and well being of our country. Just wanted to show a view of how our rights as American citizens are being disregarded totally.

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Re: Constitutional rights


Apr 8, 2020, 11:02 PM

What a joke... Is he still around. Thought he was in jail for selling drugs to lamebaufh.

So you state "health and well being of our country" isn't that what our Government is doing? Can't have it both ways. Paper Tiger.

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Re: Constitutional rights


Apr 8, 2020, 11:21 PM

Yes you can. Trying to have a grown up conversation seems to be hard tonight.

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Re: Constitutional rights


Apr 8, 2020, 10:11 PM [ in reply to Re: Constitutional rights ]

So you suggest that we shut down the next couple years from say November to April ? It’s not going to disappear and a true vaccine might be available in 2 or 3 years.

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We had to slow the thing down


Apr 8, 2020, 10:20 PM

to let resources and medicine catch up. We did and it is working. We should be celebrating. We will resume life in a few weeks.

You are free to vote for Trump again in Nov. as long as you can get past him not stopping this "charade" and giving away 2.2 trillion bones. I have not figured out why that socialist is bailing out people and businesses who did not plan for a pandemic.

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Re: We had to slow the thing down


Apr 8, 2020, 10:37 PM

What ? So Trump could have stopped this charade ? Wow !!

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Re: We had to slow the thing down


Apr 8, 2020, 10:38 PM [ in reply to We had to slow the thing down ]

Trillion bones and a plan that pays many almost double what they were making with unemployment and the $600 per week.

Why would anyone want to return to work and many of the “lucky” people that are employed wish they could be laid off to get the $$$.

They all need to be voted out for this.

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Re: We had to slow the thing down


Apr 8, 2020, 10:42 PM [ in reply to We had to slow the thing down ]

Trump didn’t have the bones to give. House controls the purse strings. That said he did sign off on it. We saw what happened to one congress critter who tried to slow the roll.....

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Trump - socialist? Really?


Apr 12, 2012, 4:16 PM [ in reply to We had to slow the thing down ]

?????

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"When I was young, I was sure of many things; now there are only two things of which I am sure: one is, that I am a miserable sinner; and the other, that Christ is an all-sufficient Saviour. He is well-taught who learns these two lessons." -John Newton


Re: Constitutional rights


Apr 8, 2020, 10:20 PM [ in reply to Re: Constitutional rights ]

Sadly if this plays out the way I think the local government is going to play it, there won’t be much for any citizen to come back to. I keep hearing this is war, that’s bs. They can’t have it both ways, war brings casualties. Either this is war and let’s take the proper preventative measures to open back up the economy. OR let’s surrender and let the virus determine what the US of A will look like in 5 years.

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Re: Constitutional rights


Apr 8, 2020, 11:11 PM

No, your POTUS keeps labeling it a war. I guess you buy in to widespread voter fraud by mail too.

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Nm


Apr 8, 2020, 11:43 PM

dupe

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Re: Constitutional rights


Apr 8, 2020, 11:43 PM [ in reply to Re: Constitutional rights ]

Hey bo he is your potus too. That’s what I’m saying called it what you want but when they tell me when and where and what I can do that’s not what I defended in the military. In fact I fought totally against that. Have a great day.

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Re: Constitutional rights


Apr 8, 2020, 10:42 PM [ in reply to Re: Constitutional rights ]

And may I add thanks for the death wish. Thumbs down for my post the people who want to protect our constitution. Yep that’s all I’ve got of if this post.

Again tell me about the curtailing part that’s written In the constitution by much smarter men than you. Or I.

I guess I missed that amendment in history class.

Do you not think they had their a$$’s handed to them by much bigger things than this virus?

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Re: Constitutional rights


Apr 8, 2020, 11:20 PM

Can’t that same constitution force you to go fight in a war regardless of how you feel about the war, and throw you in jail if you refuse?

Don’t we have many other laws aimed at keeping people safe?

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Re: Constitutional rights


Apr 8, 2020, 11:32 PM

Military requirements: If you do not want to go to war you have a right as a US Citizen to display cause.

The constitution was created enable us to set up governing entities. One of the main purposes was to define the clarity of government vs citizen. Basically to keep any aspect of the gov. Local, state or federal from overreaching their authority.

Some things have a bipartisan view. And hence we sit. I think if the government would take a reasonable approach then we will be ok. But our governor seemed to cave unde pressure instead of enforcing the restrictions they had in place.

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Re: Constitutional rights


Apr 8, 2020, 11:32 PM [ in reply to Re: Constitutional rights ]

Yep ... same thing happens during war time ....

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If people were as good as their obituary - and products were as good as advertised - this would truly be a wonderful world !!


this discussion is terribly polarizing however I am


Apr 9, 2020, 8:38 AM [ in reply to Re: Constitutional rights ]

curious.... outside of prohibition name one right we had, the government took away and then gave it back

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Re: this discussion is terribly polarizing however I am


Apr 9, 2020, 11:28 AM

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habeas_Corpus_Suspension_Act_(1863)

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"I've played multiple sports and would bet any amount that I'm still more athletic than you at this present time...."


Re: this discussion is terribly polarizing however I am


Apr 9, 2020, 11:53 AM

Nice play, FM.

However, your exception proves the rule.

Made notable by the fact that the suspension of habeas corpus would end at the cessation of hostilities as written into the law, yet it still took an act of political courage by a very unpopular President to invoke its cessation.

Furthermore, that cessation didn't apply to Southern states as long as we were being Reconstructed, which meant "we" were without habeas corpus in selectively evil Southern states for 3x longer than we were at war.

Long after the threat to life was over, the loss of liberty remained.

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Re: this discussion is terribly polarizing however I am


Apr 9, 2020, 11:53 AM [ in reply to Re: this discussion is terribly polarizing however I am ]

Nice play, FM.

However, your exception proves the rule.

Made notable by the fact that the suspension of habeas corpus would end at the cessation of hostilities as written into the law, yet it still took an act of political courage by a very unpopular President to invoke its cessation.

Furthermore, that cessation didn't apply to Southern states as long as we were being Reconstructed, which meant "we" were without habeas corpus in selectively evil Southern states for 3x longer than we were at war.

Long after the threat to life was over, the loss of liberty remained.

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Understood...


Apr 9, 2020, 1:06 PM

But in the end the right taken, then returned. Which fit the bill, if I understood his question correctly.




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"I've played multiple sports and would bet any amount that I'm still more athletic than you at this present time...."


Re: this discussion is terribly polarizing however I am


Apr 9, 2020, 1:22 PM [ in reply to this discussion is terribly polarizing however I am ]

Clean air, clean water...but they are taking that back again.

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That could be the excuse for everly day of the year.


Apr 9, 2020, 10:08 AM [ in reply to Re: Constitutional rights ]

Every year of your life.

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Re: Constitutional rights


Apr 9, 2020, 12:45 PM [ in reply to Re: Constitutional rights ]

If you didn't like that article then you are definitely not going to like what Dr. Nepute has to say.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LxcFNFMyRw

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This is a valid point.


Apr 8, 2020, 10:20 PM

Chronic disease such as heart disease, diabetes, cancer, obesity, etc. create much more illness, death, and strain on our healthcare system than COVID-19. How would people feel if the government started telling people what they can and cannot eat, how often they must exercise, how much they are allowed to weigh, etc.? If the government did this, we would save countless lives and loads of money in our healthcare system.

I understand why the government has put stay at home orders in place, but it begs the question: how much government involvement is acceptable? This COVID situation is justified by many because it has the potential to overwhelm the healthcare system, but it could be argued that the aforementioned diseases already have overwhelmed the system. But I’m guessing most people wouldn’t want the government getting more involved in our daily lives to help reduce the incidence or severity of those ailments.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: This is a valid point.


Apr 8, 2020, 10:25 PM

Thanks. That’s all I’m really trying to say here is how much government governing can we stand?

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Smoking is not allowed in restaurants.


Apr 8, 2020, 11:01 PM [ in reply to This is a valid point. ]

Why? Your rights stop where my rights start. You want to harm your body by eating honey buns for every meal, go for it. But you don’t have the right to make me eat them too.

The health care overload is a real concern, and a valid one.

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpgringofhonor-francismarion.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

"I've played multiple sports and would bet any amount that I'm still more athletic than you at this present time...."


Re: Smoking is not allowed in restaurants.


Apr 8, 2020, 11:17 PM

Tell me where you see this in the constitution. Tell me where my right to fish on a river in my own boat infringes on your rights. Or on the bank. Or what the difference from walking on the battery than sitting on a bench.

That was my whole point but if you didn’t read my replies, at what point can the government tell us not to move. There are nations that have implemented reasonable restrictions not to trounce all over their beliefs.

If you don’t believe in our constitution, so be it’s YOUR right. But if your beliefs do not match our constitution then too bad brother. Because I have fought for our country and I’m willing to fight again.

I fought for our constitution. Not yours, not mine but for ours.

If vets or active military do not believe they are fighting or have fought for our constitution then what the hell else is there. God speed.

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For starters, you clearly haven’t read up on how the Home...


Apr 8, 2020, 11:33 PM

or Work order affects your right to fish. Here’s some helpful info from SCDNR. No one is saying you can’t fish.




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"I've played multiple sports and would bet any amount that I'm still more athletic than you at this present time...."


Re: For starters, you clearly haven’t read up on how the stay...


Apr 8, 2020, 11:39 PM

Ru In Charleston? Then you do not have any idea on how they are enforcing this stay at home order.

And fishing if just an example.

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If law enforcement in Charleston has told you...


Apr 8, 2020, 11:42 PM

you can’t fish, then they were wrong. Here’s what the Berkeley County Sheriff’s office has to say...

“We know there have been many questions regarding the order given to Law Enforcement by Governor McMaster. In order to save lives, the governor has issued a ‘Work or Home’ Executive Order.

Several Berkeley County residents have messaged us and have called dispatch to ask what is permissible and what is not. Berkeley County dispatch has been inundated with calls asking questions. For questions regarding the order, we would ask that you visit https://governor.sc.gov/sites/default/files/Documents/Executive-Orders/2020-04-06%20eFILED%20Executive%20Order%20No.%202020-21%20-%20Stay%20at%20Home%20or%20Work%20Order.pdf.

Please understand that Berkeley County deputies will NOT be making traffic stops on vehicles for the sole purpose to see where you’re going. You are still allowed to go to any business that has been deemed essential or any activity that has been deemed essential, per orders.

Please remember to act responsibly and practice social distancing and proper personal hygiene. We ask that you do remember to respect others and to be patient as the COVID-19 situation is fluidly changing.

“We know many residents are concerned about a situation that is leaving many helpless and concerned.” Sheriff Duane Lewis said. “Our deputies are working hard to make sure this medical pandemic does not become a free opportunity for criminals. Berkeley County deputies are still out and about keeping us safe.”

Sheriff Lewis understands our residents’ constitutional rights and we have no intentions on hindering those by any means.

Please remember to only call 911 for a criminal or medical emergency. Calls that are not an emergency or need immediate response, put a strain on emergency sources. We would encourage residents to use our online reporting system if it is not an emergency. Please visit our website for more information. We thank our residents for their cooperation as we work through this pandemic together.

#BerkeleyStrong”




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"I've played multiple sports and would bet any amount that I'm still more athletic than you at this present time...."


Re: If law enforcement in Charleston has told you...


Apr 8, 2020, 11:48 PM

Hey fm. Didn’t tell me but ran off 3 families fishing from a landing. Ask one couple what happened and said they the officer said they had to leave. Public lake so maybe it’s different elsewhere. God speed brother.

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Public landings are closed, so that’s probably the issue...


Apr 8, 2020, 11:51 PM

Take care, and thank you for your service, I mean that.




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"I've played multiple sports and would bet any amount that I'm still more athletic than you at this present time...."


Re: Public landings are closed, so that’s probably the issue...


Apr 9, 2020, 12:01 AM

Well we may no agree on some things but at least it’s not a death threat. lol. Thanks fm

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Charleston isn't in Berkeley County.


Apr 9, 2020, 11:39 AM [ in reply to If law enforcement in Charleston has told you... ]

HTH.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


*Let me edit this post...


Apr 9, 2020, 11:43 AM

The point of my reference was not that the city of Charleston is in Berkeley County, it was to point out that law enforcement is aware of constitutional rights and is spreading correct information to combat the disinformation that is rampant right now. Since Charleston, Berkeley, and Dorchester counties are considered the "Tri-County Area", and part of the city of Charleston extends into Berkeley County, it was applicable. To say the city of Charleston is not in Berkeley County is incorrect.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Island


HTH.


If you have any additional questions, please feel free to ask.


Message was edited by: Francis Marion®




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"I've played multiple sports and would bet any amount that I'm still more athletic than you at this present time...."


I only saw Charleston mentioned.


Apr 9, 2020, 11:44 AM

Which is in Charleston County.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Daniel Island is in the city of Charleston...


Apr 9, 2020, 11:45 AM

and is also in Berkeley County...

HTH




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"I've played multiple sports and would bet any amount that I'm still more athletic than you at this present time...."


Re: Daniel Island is in the city of Charleston...


Apr 9, 2020, 12:06 PM

Yes, that was the Joe Riley ######. Another questionable move constitutionally.

"How to annex property NOT contiguous to your current jurisdiction as required by the state constitution: use a body of water."

It was legal, but clearly against the intent of the law. But it was trumped by the intent of the city and majority property owner, the Guggengeim Foundation. (IIRC.)

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Sorry, but JK's all time favorite restaurant Hyman's is


Apr 9, 2020, 12:42 PM [ in reply to Daniel Island is in the city of Charleston... ]

located in Charleston County, therefore you are wrong.

If that historic institution that is so intertwined with the fabric of the lives of Charleston natives is in Charleston County, then it's impossible for any part of Charleston to be in Berkeley County.

Hth.

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"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


Locals love it!***


Apr 9, 2020, 12:50 PM



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"I've played multiple sports and would bet any amount that I'm still more athletic than you at this present time...."


You obviously prefer hymens to Hyman's.


Apr 9, 2020, 1:18 PM [ in reply to Sorry, but JK's all time favorite restaurant Hyman's is ]

Isn't that right, Princess?

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


That doesn't even make sense***


Apr 9, 2020, 3:16 PM



2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


I know...


Apr 9, 2020, 3:29 PM

Let's have a geography contest.

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"I've played multiple sports and would bet any amount that I'm still more athletic than you at this present time...."


lol Imagine bob trying to locate Argentia.....


Apr 9, 2020, 3:49 PM



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Why do dogs always race to the door when the doorbell rings? It's almost never for them.


Re: lol Imagine bob trying to locate Argentia.....


Apr 10, 2020, 12:20 AM

Dude, that pic is just wrong.

Not only do I find myself thinking, "Where is Antarctica?", but then I start wondering what islands she is wearing on her #oobs.
That's not fair.

I'm SURE she didn't wear that so we could gawk at her.

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Although you can catch COVID from someone


Apr 9, 2020, 11:37 AM [ in reply to Smoking is not allowed in restaurants. ]

and you can't catch heart disease or cancer, someone who develops a chronic disease absolutely affects others. Healthcare costs go up, government expenditures on health care go up, etc. It's not merely a situation that the person affected deals with in isolation.

The main reason given for people to stay at home isn't to reduce the number of people getting COVID-19, but to spread out the exposures so that the healthcare system doesn't get overwhelmed. My point is that our healthcare system is already overwhelmed by the myriad of chronic disease in our society today, most of which are a result of our crappy diets, lack of exercise, and high stress as a society. I'm not equating the two, just raising awareness because chronic illness gets shrugged off as "oh well, I'm just getting older," when it is a HUGE drain on our system. The point being, people who are okay with the government dictating human behavior to this extent should theoretically also be okay with the government stepping in for other health issues as well.

I'm not minimizing the concern regarding overwhelming the healthcare system during COVID-19. Yes, it's valid. Yes, I am in support of people staying home. But there are very real consequences for doing so, including the economy as well as the potential for government overreach in the future.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: This is a valid point.


Apr 9, 2020, 1:47 PM [ in reply to This is a valid point. ]

At least with health it seems more like steering the conversation to give facts and suggestions for improvement. I'm glad there are entities like the FDA, CDC, etc. My biggest fear is corruption of the judicial system. Lawyers, judges, politicians, big business, media, foreign interests, scare the #### out of me. Big money usually gets it's way. I'm sure it's worse in other places but the potential to control the conversation and the outcome are frightening. Lawyers, politicians and judges don't initiate actions on each other. Media can be bought. Just sayin', it's all a matter of perspective.

I don't think the virus cares who you are. How much money you have may decide if you live. Dying any kind of way usually puts a strain on the system. A bunch of people dying at once is inconvenient but it does happen from time to time. Just look at this as a good exercise for the next time, because there will be a next time.

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Re: Constitutional rights


Apr 8, 2020, 11:21 PM

I’m all for giving away my retirement and ruining the economy for a .0013 chance of dying from this disease. Make no mistake, much of this hysteria is orchestrated. More people will die from opioids this year than covid-19. Why no outrage?

Why have selective shutdowns? Lowe’s makes a killing while restaurants go out of business. How’s that for humanity? Public boat ramp guarded by police, private yaht club is open for business. Ridiculous.

What will be really irritating is when the numbers of dead are much lower than the projections, the TigerNetters screaming about no one following the rules will say, see it all worked. lol

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Re: Constitutional rights


Apr 8, 2020, 11:28 PM

Those projections had 100% participation in social distancing already factored in.
It’s a BS lie to claim we’ve flattened the curve to get the projections down this low.

The reality is lower because this isn’t the Andromeda Strain they made it out to be.

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"Anybody that says Coach Brownell is the best coach to come through Clemson is going to start an argument." -JP Hall


Re: Constitutional rights


Apr 8, 2020, 11:56 PM

Hey TS: I dont know if we will ever know. With every death being labeled covid19.

So if you have a cancer patient that I read about was living on borrowed time and they got the virus. Then died a couple days later, how is this a virus death?

So if the extra attention they are getting because of the virus did they live longer than they should or did they die a couple of days before their time.

These numbers will skew the death rates. Don’t you think?

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Re: Constitutional rights


Apr 9, 2020, 12:20 AM

It’s pretty clear that if someone has multiple issues, but one of them is the ‘rona, it will be counted as a C-19 death.
There is probably great political pressure to count as many deaths as possible to this to justify the panic response, saying C-19 is “suspected” but they won’t test a dead person to confirm or not.

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"Anybody that says Coach Brownell is the best coach to come through Clemson is going to start an argument." -JP Hall


Re: Constitutional rights


Apr 9, 2020, 11:23 AM [ in reply to Re: Constitutional rights ]

Obviously there can never be any perfect way of knowing an exact cause of death in some situations. I'd need to know more information about the cancer patient though to form an opinion on that individual death. Was this person already on their deathbed and expected to die within a few days from cancer? Or did they have cancer, and were expected to die within a few months? If the virus caused them to die even a month sooner then I don't see what's wrong with saying the virus killed them while noting that they had a higher risk factor due to the cancer.

I do think it's important for younger and healthier people who may be worried about themselves to realize that a majority of the deaths are from people with certain risk factors such as age, and certain health conditions in order to remain calm.

On the other hand, I think it would be reckless to use examples such as this to think that the entire thing is hype, and attributed to number building.

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This adds a whole new meaning to the phrase ...


Apr 8, 2020, 11:38 PM

Give me liberty or give me death.

Literally a choice now.

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Re: This adds a whole new meaning to the phrase ...


Apr 8, 2020, 11:50 PM

Truthfully brother. Stay safe.

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Re: This adds a whole new meaning to the phrase ...


Apr 9, 2020, 12:21 AM [ in reply to This adds a whole new meaning to the phrase ... ]

The correct answer hasn’t changed though, just the people.

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"Anybody that says Coach Brownell is the best coach to come through Clemson is going to start an argument." -JP Hall


Re: Constitutional rights


Apr 9, 2020, 8:34 AM

What is the purpose/function of a Government in society? For citizens of the USA it is clearly stated in the Preamble to our Constitution:

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

So are our Government(s) actions in the face of the COVID-19 pandemic within the standards of their Constitutional purpose? Are the Federal and State Government(s) COVID-19 actions and restrictions providing "for the common defence and promoting the general Welfare" of all people in the USA? If our Federal and State Governments took no restrictive action in the face of COVID-19 - would they be derelict in their Constitutional purpose?

In dealing with this pandemic, there is a natural conflict between our Governments response to the common defence/general welfare vs the Constitutional guarantees of individual liberty. It is a tough thing to balance because practically everything in our Constitution is geared toward ensuring individual liberty. That is why Socialism (a collectivist dogma that subjugates individual liberty to the collective "good") should be abhorrent to all Americans who believe in the Constitution.

So how do we balance the tension between the common defence/general welfare and individual liberty in the face of the COVID-19 pandemic? I don't know that we can keep the balance in this situation because of the unknowns in dealing with COVID-19. We are just now getting reliable data to understand how deadly this thing is. Without knowing the lethality of COVID-19 it is hard for our society, much less Government, to determine an acceptable death to individual freedom balance. As a result, the Government(s) had little recourse than to take a very cautious (maybe even overly cautious) approach. I don't like shutting down large parts of our society but as I look at my elderly relatives I understand the cautious approach and can begrudgingly accept a very temporary tipping of the scales in support of the general welfare over my individual freedom.

Having said that, I can understand why some on the board are VERY uncomfortable with locking down our society as that action is antithetical to our Constitutional guarantees of individual liberty and the American character in general. Quite frankly, I suspect most people are somewhat bothered by the lock down, even if they wholeheartedly support it, because it is such and extraordinary measure. I take some comfort in that President Trump is a wholehearted capitalist and is itching to get America back to work. I believe he will start pulling back on these restrictions after 30 April (if not before) to where a significant portion of the country can return to work.

What I'm most concerned about is how this extraordinary precedent may be used by politicos in the future. In the future, the statists among our political elite may try to fabricate conditions to justify future lock downs in order to further their statist agenda. "Never let a crisis go to waste" where a smaller but manageable crisis is blown out of proportion to justify similar extraordinary lock down actions. These statists are already trying to extend the current shutdown for as long as they can with elements of the hard left wanting to extend the current lock down measures for 18 months. These statists know an 18 month shutdown would destroy our economy/free enterprise system and would give birth to their ultimate goal of collective governance (i.e. Socialism). While I accept the current shut down measures as necessary, I see a real danger the longer we have these measures in place.

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Re: Constitutional rights


Apr 9, 2020, 9:23 AM

Very well laid out constructive argument. Not aware of anyone suggesting an 18 month lockdown. I would also challenge what kind of a lockdown we're really under with the one exception of some businesses and religious gatherings... It's not like you're locked in to your house, not like you're not free to go where you want.

But, if one is going to condemn our liberties being trampled, then isn't it true that you also have to condemn the POTUS decisions to shut down travel from China and Europe?

What gets me is people tend to pick and choose what fits their agenda. The only reason I posted a couple quips at Rock's post is the same reason I say the same thing to my brother, don't just repeat what a fox news anchor says. What's "your" data... Same thing I'd say to someone who would post what maddox says on msn.

Like him or not McMaster did it right. He never closed churches, he just said you couldn't have 3 or more in any gathering.

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Re: Constitutional rights


Apr 9, 2020, 11:05 AM

You raise some good points. I'm what you would call a "right winger" and just about always view things with a conservative mentality. But I also realize that just about every news story in today's media is put through a interpretive journalism filter that is a reflection of the author's ideology be it a conservative outlet or a liberal outlet.

It drives me nuts that we have gotten to the point in journalism and TV media where truth and fact are obfuscated behind a political ideology - the spin never stops and is used to fuel the respective ideological echo chambers. How do we get the facts when just about everything, no matter how insignificant, is being processed and dished out for partisan political gain and ideological talking points? The state of today's journalism is a real mess that shows no signs of re-thinking their behavior/role in informing society.

Regarding the virus; I think, under the circumstances, most State and Federal Governments have made the best decisions they can based on the data available. We couldn't really trust the info coming out of China and by the time we really grasped the virulence of this disease it was already among us. So we were/are in the unfortunate situation of having to institute measures based on the best available (but flawed) data. The old expression "building a plane while in flight" comes to mind.

One of the guys that floated the 18 month idea was Dr. Zeke Emanuel (Rahm Emanuel's brother). He essentially thinks we are going to have to remain in social distancing and restricted measures until a vaccine is available 18 months from now:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pP3-hE-DrSc&feature=emb_title

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Re: Constitutional rights


Apr 9, 2020, 11:53 AM

Sorry but I am yet to buy into the Coronavirus hype.
I guess if its real then we have cured the flu, sinus infections, the common cold, heart disease etc. I haven't heard of one news story about the flu in the last 2 months.

The flu affects millions and millions each year, and kills tens and hundreds of thousands. But 1 million cases of mostly simple cases of Corona has somehow completely over loaded the system

Each day I feel like the human race is a herd of sheep being led over a cliff.....

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Re: McMaster did the right thing by denying...


Apr 9, 2020, 12:23 PM [ in reply to Re: Constitutional rights ]

Really?

The Right to Assemble peaceably is just as much a First Amendment right as Freedom of Religion.

I'm not saying what he did was unreasonable, but it's no less unconstitutional than what he didn't do: actually closing the churches.

From a constitutional standpoint, the government is lost in a fog, hoping it will clear soon.

Where is the Swamp Fox when you need him?

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