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CU Guru [1177]
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Why is 1 coach considered a God, while another.............
Jun 3, 2013, 8:30 PM
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Can someone explain to me why Bill Wilhelm is considered a God around here (second only to Danny Ford) BUT Jack Leggett is hated by most Clemson fans?
From what I read around here it seems most fans want him fired because they say the program has been on a steady decline since he took over.
Looking at the stats coming into the 2012 season
Bill Wilhelm 1958–1993 1707 1161 536 10 .683
Jack Leggett 1189 812 376 1 .683
Each coach has taken Clemson to the CWS 6 times. Wilhelm was 4-12 in the CWS, Leggett is 8-12
The only difference I see between the two coaches is Wilhelm won more conference championships than Leggett.
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CU Guru [1464]
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Leggett isn't hated by most, myself included. He's a good
Jun 3, 2013, 8:40 PM
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coach and that's widely acknowledged but like Bowden he's done all he's capable of and I want some new blood. It may work out and it may not but you never win without taking some chances.
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CU Guru [1845]
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Re: Leggett isn't hated by most, myself included. He's a good
Jun 3, 2013, 8:43 PM
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The ACC was not very good at baseball pre FSU days.
Ever thought of all those ACC titles and the competition? It's not like it is now.
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110%er [6937]
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Re:And neither was any other conference.***
Jun 3, 2013, 9:52 PM
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CU Guru [1142]
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Re: Why is 1 coach considered a God, while another.............
Jun 3, 2013, 8:44 PM
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We can say the exact same thing about Dabo Swinney and Ken Hatfield. Hatfield was 32-13 (71%) with an ACC ship in 3 years, and Dabo is 36-17 (69%) with an ACC ship in 4 years (not counting 2008). Both were considered fine Christian family men, with impeccable characters, by most Tiger fans, yet Hatfield is vilified and Dabo is ready for canonization, Ha, Ha! I guess these Wilhelm/Leggett and Hatfield/Swinney comparisons are what's known as 'tater' logic, huh?
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110%er [8083]
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Its very simple
Jun 3, 2013, 8:49 PM
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Coach Leggett followed a legend in Coach Wilhelm
Coach Hatfield followed a legend in Coach Ford
Coach Swinney did not follow a legend at Clemson so he is given a little more lead way.
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Oculus Spirit [96848]
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Maybe it has to do with Hatfield inheriting a potential
Jun 3, 2013, 8:59 PM
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national championship team from Ford? Also, I remember hearing about how aloof Hatfield was with fans, and that he ruined relationships that Clemson had with several high school coaches.
I guess you guys weren't around during that time?
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CU Guru [1142]
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Re: Maybe it has to do with Hatfield inheriting a potential
Jun 3, 2013, 9:11 PM
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Thanks RockSolid and cutigerbob, both those answers do help to explain the perception of those different coaches among the Clemson faithful.
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Oculus Spirit [96848]
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I guess you could say Dabo has a much better "bedside
Jun 3, 2013, 9:15 PM
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manner" than Hatfield. Kenny just wasn't very personable. And most fans feel like he ran our once proud program into the ground.
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Legend [16903]
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CU Guru [1142]
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Re: Maybe it has to do with Hatfield inheriting a potential
Jun 5, 2013, 11:07 PM
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I'm pretty sure that Danny was the coach who first lost to UVA (maybe not in DV?)??
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CU Guru [1400]
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Legend [16903]
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Re: Maybe it has to do with Hatfield inheriting a potential
Jun 6, 2013, 3:26 PM
[ in reply to Re: Maybe it has to do with Hatfield inheriting a potential ] |
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I'm gonna guess you were too young to be watching at that time but blowing that streak was a big, big deal at the time. Imagine if a new coach is the first to blow UNCs home streak in basketball. This was bigger. This could have been another loss, but I have always attached Hatfield's putrid "In victory you glow, in defeat you grow" speech to that game. He might be the winningest coach to be absolutely reviled.
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Oculus Spirit [96848]
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It was certainly a big deal. I heard that when he arrived
Jun 6, 2013, 3:31 PM
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back home after the trip to UVa that he found a moving van sitting in his yard.
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Legend [16255]
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Two years ago many kooks were screaming for Dabo's
Jun 5, 2013, 11:23 PM
[ in reply to Re: Why is 1 coach considered a God, while another............. ] |
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head (some still are) after the 2010 6-7 season. Dabo's stellar recruiting and the program's impressive rise since are in stark contrast to Hatfield's performance as his tenure wore on. Plus, Hatfield wore ugly striped shirts, while Dabo generally keeps it solid.
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110%er [6981]
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Let me help you
Jun 6, 2013, 7:43 PM
[ in reply to Re: Why is 1 coach considered a God, while another............. ] |
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Hatfield took over a top 10 program and ran it in the ground, losing to a bad Wake team at home and was fired for it.
When Leggett took over baseball ( I was a junior) we were #1 in the nation. He has failed to maintain Clemson as a top 10 program and we came become just another team
Have to understand the context.
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Orange Blooded [2438]
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Folks like to finish at or near the top........
Jun 3, 2013, 9:22 PM
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Like many folks have said, I don't believe people hate Coach Leggett. What I DO believe is that Coach Wilhelm's run of either regular season or tournament ACC Titles between 1973-1985 placed the expectation in our minds that Clemson should annually be at or NEAR the top in our league. Maybe that isn't "fair" given FSU, GT and Miami being added, but I really think that plus the.......er.........Coot issue have even the most patient of us Tigers at the end of our rope.
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CU Medallion [58411]
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I think that's pretty much it.***
Jun 3, 2013, 9:29 PM
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Die-Hard [8977]
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The ACC sucked in the 80s...
Jun 4, 2013, 12:41 AM
[ in reply to Folks like to finish at or near the top........ ] |
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winning the title in those days wasn't much of an accomplishment. The ACC is many times tougher now than it was when coach Wilhelm was the coach.
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CU Guru [1142]
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Re: The ACC sucked in the 80s...
Jun 5, 2013, 11:08 PM
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certainly not in football!!
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CU Guru [1400]
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The flip side is
Jun 6, 2013, 3:11 PM
[ in reply to The ACC sucked in the 80s... ] |
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It was much harder to get to the CWS in Wilhelm's days because the field for the playoffs were smaller.
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Head Coach [759]
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You say "more" like it is just 1 more championship.
Jun 3, 2013, 9:26 PM
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Even if you count Division championships as Conference championships, Coach Leggett will never catch Coach Wilhelm...ever.
I understand that you have an agenda here, but you can't just gloss over the championships issue.
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110%er [8083]
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So is Conference Championships the only thing that matters?
Jun 3, 2013, 9:38 PM
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By that logic, Coach Penley should be fired since Clemson has not won or even come close to winning a conference championship since 2004.
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Head Coach [759]
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Well in your polarizing world, it is one or the other.
Jun 3, 2013, 10:22 PM
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Either they are the only thing that matters, or they have zero importance.
In my world, I see two coaches with equal winning percentages and vastly different championship resumes. I do not see the championships as trivial.
As for Coach Penley, I would like to ask you why you feel your argument is so compelling. Why would it be absurd to fire Coach Penley? Does that reason apply to Coach Leggett?
Also please check your golf stats. I do believe we have done more than "come close to winning a conference championship since 2003." Fabricating negative stats about Clemson will never buy you credibility. Please fan-up before you take another stab at this.
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110%er [8083]
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Which coach has won more conferece titles
Jun 3, 2013, 10:37 PM
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since 2003? If one coach should be fired for not winning them, then why shouldn't both?
How many Top 5 finishes for the National Championship has each had in the same time frame.
I am just pointing out, if you want a coach fired for not winning conference championships, why isn't the same standards being held across the board for all coaches?
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Head Coach [759]
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I never once mentioned firing anyone.
Jun 5, 2013, 9:14 PM
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You are obsessed with firing someone. The question posed in this thread is why Wilhelm is seen as a better coach. The answer is more championships over his career. Penley will always be seen as a better coach than Leggett for the same reason. More championships over his career.
Your fabricated 2003 metric is not only a bad attempt at cherry picking stats, it is also irrelevant to the Wilhelm/Leggett discussion.
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110%er [8083]
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Clemson Golf 1 - 2nd place finish since 04
Jun 3, 2013, 10:52 PM
[ in reply to Well in your polarizing world, it is one or the other. ] |
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I was wrong, Clemson came close 1 year....... 2nd place in 2010. Clemson has only made it to the NCAA Championship tourney (ie CWS) 3 times since '04.
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All-TigerNet [14470]
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Re: Clemson Golf 1 - 2nd place finish since 04
Jun 3, 2013, 10:55 PM
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fire penley.
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Orange Blooded [2457]
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Re: Why is 1 coach considered a God, while another.............
Jun 3, 2013, 10:26 PM
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People use championships as the reason. Our total from the 80s would be dramatically less if FSU and Miami were in conference. They won 50 games every year back then and went to Omaha on the reg.
I think a lot of it has to do that Wilhelm built it and was a good ole boy. Leggett isn't and he is the man to follow a legend.
It is like Frank Howard. He started something great really, but you could easily find faults with his record. He gets the pass for being the man to start it though, which is fine.
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Scout Team [166]
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Re: Why is 1 coach considered a God, while another.............
Jun 3, 2013, 11:06 PM
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since '06;
vs. UVA 3-18
vs. UNC 4-17
Vs. USC 10-22
We're getting out-recruited and out-coached by programs in our own conference as well as our rival. Should never happen in a Clemson baseball program, regardless of who the coach is.
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CU Guru [1328]
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I just hope...
Jun 5, 2013, 10:02 PM
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"lead way" gets added to the T-net dictionary along with "grade of slaw", "deer", and "landblasted" 
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110%er [5436]
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Re: Its very simple
Jun 5, 2013, 10:25 PM
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Bill hand pick Jack! Bill also went 16 yrs without going to the cws in that time period he only went to one regional
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110%er [5436]
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Re: The ACC sucked in the 80s...
Jun 5, 2013, 10:25 PM
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Wrong nc state was very good
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Associate AD [800]
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Re: Why is 1 coach considered a God, while another.............
Jun 6, 2013, 4:14 AM
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Because Leggett chokes and cannot win the big games.
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All-TigerNet [11024]
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Wilhelm was warm folksy and southern...
Jun 6, 2013, 6:45 AM
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Jack is icy, brusque and northern.
Both are/were excellent coaches.
We play in a much stronger ACC now than when Bill was our beloved coach. That is a fact. Virginia back in Wilhelm's day for example was not even trying. They funded about 2 scholarships.
The jack hatred is irrational. There are certainly better coaches around but not many.
I have no idea how many "haters" there really are but my gosh they are a loud obnoxious bunch. Some of them are even my friends.
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