Tiger Board Logo

Donor's Den General Leaderboards TNET coins™ POTD Hall of Fame Map FAQ
GIVE AN AWARD
Use your TNET coins™ to grant this post a special award!

W
50
Big Brain
90
Love it!
100
Cheers
100
Helpful
100
Made Me Smile
100
Great Idea!
150
Mind Blown
150
Caring
200
Flammable
200
Hear ye, hear ye
200
Bravo
250
Nom Nom Nom
250
Take My Coins
500
Ooo, Shiny!
700
Treasured Post!
1000

YOUR BALANCE
Why has Clemson so outperformed the rankings?
storage This topic has been archived - replies are not allowed.
Archives - Tiger Boards Archive
add New Topic
Replies: 21
| visibility 1

Why has Clemson so outperformed the rankings?


Jan 23, 2020, 11:36 AM

I've thought about this question for awhile now: on paper we shouldn't be as dominant as we are, not per the recruiting services. We rarely have cracked the Top-10 in recruiting rankings and this is the first year we've ever even gotten close to that Recruiting National Championship that Alabama almost always wins. But one thing, IMHO, the recruiting services consistently get wrong is, you can't just add up all the scores on a recruiting class like it's a numerical rating on Madden or those old NCAA Football console games they're about to start making again.

Because at the end of the day, it's also about what positions you get those players. And there's four types of players college coaches just can't find enough of:

1) Quarterbacks. The obvious. Only so many really good ones out there, especially really good ones who throw a good ball and can make plays with their feet and lead a team and stay out of the bars and keep from getting The Big Head when they're the #1 Big Man on Campus...tough.
2) Defensive tackles. Only so many 6'4+, 275+ "jumbo athlete" types with the quicks and lower-body strength and cat base (you've gotta have serious contact balance or an OG will put you on your butt) to play this spot.
3) Corners. Again, what everybody wants is those 6'0"+ guys who can flip their hips so they can turn and run in phase. Plenty of guys 6'O"+ who can really run...but most of them simply don't have the hip turn to play CB and so what they play instead is WR or S. Go to camp after camp after camp...they just aren't out there. Derion Kendrick was a durn good WR, but he made himself millions - maybe tens of millions - in future NFL earnings by switching from WR to CB because most guys just can't.

And finally...
4) LT. Maybe the hardest spot there is to fill because you have to do so much projection. Filling the LG to RT spots is much easier, but finding that kid who's 6'5"+ with the feet to match a speed rush around the edge and the wingspan to not get rag-dolled by the bull-rush and the lower-body strength to not get put on roller skates...that's hard, because those guys simply do not usually exist at age 16 or 17 when you're recruiting them. You have to project how they're going to develop once you put 30-40 pounds (or more!) on them and how they're going to develop in the weightroom and how they're going to develop as technicians.

Clemson dominates at all those spots in recruiting...and also at pass-rusher, which would likely be Spot #5 in terms of hard-to-find positions. Look at the laundry list of guys we've at recently from all those spots, and how many of the 5-stars and high-end 4's we've signed recently were from those positions.

So it isn't necessarily that Clemson is dominating recruiting, it's that we're dominating recruiting at the right spots. Other spots - LB, S, the OL from LG to RT, we've been content to just develop somewhat lesser-rated guys even if they weren't necessarily 5-star guys coming out of high school. We tend to hold onto those guys for 4-5 years, and they tend to almost invariably be those high-character, coachable, "Clemson-type" guys that seemingly form the backbone of our player culture.

It's an interesting formula...and one, frankly, our rivals - especially OSU and Alabama - have seemingly not replicated. They try to get 5-star guys everywhere. And that trend for Clemson has continued even the last couple of years when Clemson's coaching staff has had the ability to pretty much go out and sign anybody they wanted...the guys they've seemed to want have continued to look pretty much exactly like the ones who just left.

Is our staff deliberately recruiting away from 5-star, 3-and-done-type guys at half the positions on the field?

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up


Re: Why has Clemson so outperformed the rankings?


Jan 23, 2020, 11:40 AM

And coaching. And consistency in coaching.

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

"Anybody that says Coach Brownell is the best coach to come through Clemson is going to start an argument." -JP Hall


Agree with your premise. We are getting the best qbs


Jan 23, 2020, 11:44 AM

And some darn good wide receivers. But I truly think some staffs go about accumulating all the 5 stars they can where our coaches are better about not even recruiting a 5 star at a position if there is not a need. Plus I think going after the character people we do, I think we get more out of them because we know they are coach able and want to work hard. We don’t have the transfers others do. We still have them but most of them I can’t blame because they aren’t going to start and more talent is coming up behind them.


Message was edited by: lovingit®


military_donation.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Agree with your premise. We are getting the best qbs


Jan 23, 2020, 12:02 PM

Our staff has a good eye when it comes to evaluating talent. That is why you see them going after some 3 stars every year. Our coaches know how to spot and develop talent.

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up


Re: Agree with your premise. We are getting the best qbs


Jan 23, 2020, 9:53 PM

You know you’re new to the “successful program” club when you are just figuring out that recruiting class rankings don’t mean everything.

Yes, you’re right.

You forgot the part about playing in the ACC too.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

wow, I accidentally thumbed up a turd in the punch bowl***


Jan 23, 2020, 10:17 PM



badge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Replied for you... ;~)***


Jan 23, 2020, 11:31 PM



2024 white level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up


LSU is a great example of that maxim


Jan 24, 2020, 8:42 AM [ in reply to Re: Agree with your premise. We are getting the best qbs ]

this year being your lucky exception.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Is it possible that, as a group, 5-stars are more


Jan 24, 2020, 8:49 AM [ in reply to Agree with your premise. We are getting the best qbs ]

statistically likely to not be good team players (on the field & off). I mean, many of them are fawned over and told that their ##### don't stink. Plus, because they are so much more talented than their competition, they may not be developing towards their full potential.

I am not saying 5 stars are bad people - just that they encounter a lot of temptations along the way that may keep some of them from being the best guys for us here at Clemson (or elsewhere).

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Two primary things. We recruit players with character


Jan 23, 2020, 12:04 PM

that make better teammates and players.

And we recruit players that WE think WILL make great players, not who talking heads who never coached a day in their lives think ARE.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

I would add 1 thing to your QB assessment - High Football IQ


Jan 23, 2020, 12:08 PM

A QB has to have a high football IQ to read complex defenses, know what he is looking at and then react quickly/correctly to what is happening. If you find that rare combination of high football IQ QB with incredible ball skills you get a Deshaun Watson kind of guy that will win a lot of games - even on teams with lessor talent as a whole. Trevor Lawrence is another one of those guys with the rare combination of high football IQ with natural football skills - expect him to be even better next year.

If I had to chose between elite RB's, WR's or elite offensive linemen - give me the elite offensive linemen every time. Elite linemen can make average "skill" players look good...

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpgmilitary_donation.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Note the high YPC average of ALL of our RBs***


Jan 24, 2020, 8:44 AM



flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Hmmmm...


Jan 23, 2020, 12:12 PM



2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up


Re: Why has Clemson so outperformed the rankings?


Jan 23, 2020, 12:18 PM

Always appreciate your insight

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Why has Clemson so outperformed the rankings?


Jan 23, 2020, 1:15 PM

As much as ETN breaks the rule and dominates with breaking tackles and is the exception, I think RBs have the least influence.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Why has Clemson so outperformed the rankings?


Jan 23, 2020, 5:57 PM

I think you are right except for a few like, ETN, Dobbins, Edward-Helaire, and a few more. These guys can be game changers, but if another team is intent on committing enough players to stop them, they can usually do it ...... but at what cost? Normally good running backs are valuable but just about everyone has one that can run the ball. They are really just another piece of the puzzle.

military_donation.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Why has Clemson so outperformed the rankings?


Jan 23, 2020, 1:17 PM

Excellent analysis! FSU (with Bowden) and Miami both proved that just targeting 5start players without watching them play a lot is a recipe for failure. Stocking up on 5 star running backs and receivers is not going to win games alone. The major FSU failure recently has been lack of offensive linemen. We also see what elite defensive ends are like without dominant tackles. There are l;ots of pieces to the puzzle!

military_donation.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

interesting theory.


Jan 23, 2020, 10:16 PM

I think this could have been the case. Some of the positions you mentioned require cerebral players on our team like, OL, LB, S. It makes sense we recruit guys that will be in the position for 4-5 years.

It seems like we are getting more 5 stars at more positions than ever. I think we’ll continue to see a lot of 5 stars because we still seem to be selective on character. It looks like we are getting a lot of the top guys on our board.

badge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Why has Clemson so outperformed the rankings?


Jan 24, 2020, 8:39 AM

Perhaps 247 (or someone) should come up with a weighted recruiting ranking taking into account the importance of these various positions. They could also take into account how recruiting helps fill that teams most pressing needs each year.

For instance, If we had the chance to land one more recruit, i would rather find an O-Lineman or a D-back than another WR or RB - even with less stars.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

I don't see anything in there about how bad tony


Jan 24, 2020, 8:43 AM

Elliot is or how stupid dabo is for keeping him.

2024 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Geville Tiger on Clemson football , "Dabo's only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: Why has Clemson so outperformed the rankings?


Jan 24, 2020, 8:54 AM

Since 2015 when we started our run of playoff appearances, we have only had one class outside the top 10. That class only had 14 recruits and still finished number 16 (in 2017).

So what did you mean when you said Clemson rarely has cracked the top 10 in recruiting ranking?


These rankings are per 247 composite. I think most would agree these are the best rankings to go by.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Why has Clemson so outperformed the rankings?


Jan 24, 2020, 9:02 AM

I have often considered the same question, but I have not gone into the same level of analysis that you have due to a combination of lack of time, lack of desire, and mostly lack of knowledge. In my simple mind, it boils down to (1) our coaches recognize talent better than the services and (2) they develop talent better than other staffs. We turn incoming top 6 classes into top 2 teams. Wonder what will happen when we get that top 1 or 2 class? It is gonna be fun.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Replies: 21
| visibility 1
Archives - Tiger Boards Archive
add New Topic