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What would you do if you had chest pains...
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What would you do if you had chest pains...


Dec 12, 2020, 8:04 AM

Your Dad, whom you love more than anyone in the world, and is a plumber, tells you it's just heartburn. You go to a doctor, he examines you, does all the scans, and tells you you have 95% blockage in your arteries around your heart. Your Dad insists they're wrong. You got to 12 different doctors, and they all say the same thing, that you will die without heart surgery. Your Dad says he doesn't care what they think, he knows it's just heartburn and you should just take Tums regularly, and you'll be good.

There are a couple of truths here:

1. At some point you have to listen to the ones who know what they're talking about, whose very job it is to determine your condition.

2. Your Dad clearly doesn't care about you as much as you care about him. His priority is to be right, not your health.

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Not to mention, your Dad recommended some of the doctors.***


Dec 12, 2020, 8:08 AM



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Because your dad who rejects medicine in favor of Tums


Dec 12, 2020, 8:42 AM

Is hip to the best cardiologists in town?

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Also, if you had 95% blockage, in the time it took you


Dec 12, 2020, 8:46 AM

To get appointments with 12 cardiologists, you would either die, or your hillbilly dad would say “it’s been 9 months—maybe it’s not heartburn”.

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I'm more the plumber than the cardiologist.


Dec 12, 2020, 9:01 AM

I don't know all the medical details. It was a thought exercise, not an attempt at medical analysis, geez!

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Re: I'm more the plumber than the cardiologist.


Dec 12, 2020, 9:02 AM

Prod, as a medical professional I feel like I need to let you know that plumbers are not qualified to make medical diagnoses nor prescribe treatments.

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Is this a parable?***


Dec 12, 2020, 8:09 AM



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Re: Is this a parable?***


Dec 12, 2020, 8:16 AM

A feeble attempt yes.

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Re: Is this a parable?***


Dec 12, 2020, 9:48 AM [ in reply to Is this a parable?*** ]

I am glad that everyone else is confused too.

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Re: What would you do if you had chest pains...


Dec 12, 2020, 8:34 AM

You just have to put him down. He is too old.

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This analogy.


Dec 12, 2020, 8:38 AM

https://youtu.be/_asNhzXq72w

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Uh, I'm confused.


Dec 12, 2020, 8:42 AM

Is it you or your father who is suffering chest pain?

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Re: Uh, I'm confused.


Dec 12, 2020, 8:44 AM

I was confused by that as well. Either way, the right call is just to put the father down and tell the grandkids that the father now lives on a farm somewhere.

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Right. If it's dad with the pain, he can do what he likes.


Dec 12, 2020, 11:31 AM

I have seen several people basically decide that it's not worth the fight to delay the inevitable. Some knew that was what they were deciding, some didn't really think beyond their own belligerence, but that doesn't really matter. IMO, that is as legit a response to this type of medical issue as any other.

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Re: Uh, I'm confused.


Dec 12, 2020, 8:45 AM [ in reply to Uh, I'm confused. ]

America has chest pains. Your dad tells you it's because of the deep state, but it's actually because Trump.

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I think Russia was the cardiologist,


Dec 12, 2020, 8:47 AM

And China was the dad, and the chest pains were the sins of our forefathers.

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Re: I think Russia was the cardiologist,


Dec 12, 2020, 9:00 AM

Dodd-Frank is the plumber and the tums are pictures on Hunter’s laptop

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Wait, it’s gotta be your bull***


Dec 12, 2020, 9:20 AM



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Re: I think Russia was the cardiologist,


Dec 13, 2020, 1:57 PM [ in reply to Re: I think Russia was the cardiologist, ]

I am so confused.

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Pretty sure I said "you" right in the first sentence.***


Dec 12, 2020, 8:52 AM [ in reply to Uh, I'm confused. ]



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I'm pretty sure your analogy struck a nerve and probably...


Dec 12, 2020, 9:01 AM

not in any way you imagined or might predict.

I had my first heart attack on a basketball court just after eating a huge lunch. We only had five people so we played 21. I had won a hard fought game and was bringing the ball in. I guessed I'd slowed a bit due to overeating lunch. After two steps 'inbound,' from the half court, before anyone came close enough to guard me I put up a long three. It rimmed out and I rushed the backboard for the rebound.

I found myself holding on to the post to keep my balance. Later the guys told me I turned gray as I insisted I just needed to get home and digest that huge lunch. I walked about two block during which my breathing seemed to be too shallow or something. My wife recognized that something was horribly wrong and called 911. I made it to the wall mounted phone and clicked the phone hanger to end the call.

I just wanted to rest I remember thinking as I made my way back to the couch. I sat back and stretched my arms across the backrest leaned by head back and gave my soul to God as I passed out.

I woke occasionally on the way to the hospital and remember more about it on the exam table in the ER. I tried to set up but the staff held me down. One of the nurses exclaimed 'He's having a heart attack right here.'

The cardio team on call at G'ville Mem Hospital came into my room there and told us that I had four arteries 100% blocked and one at 95%. I had no options, imo and that of the doctors. Sometime afterword they opened up my chest, removed my heart so to make the bypass on of the artery toward the rear of my heart possible, took veins from my ankles to my knees inside both legs and bypassed the blockages.

I'm 68 now, have had more at least a baker's doz heart attacks. My father died at 36 y/o with his first heart attack.

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Deer 1988. Most of us are aware of this.


Dec 13, 2020, 2:06 PM

WHICH IS WHY YOU DON'T PULLSHIT LIKE DROPPING OFF THE GRID FOR A COUPLE MONTHS MAKING US THINK YOU CROAKED IN YOUR LA-Z-BOY ONE NIGHT WATCHING HANNITY!!!!

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I dunno, I thought it was pretty good...


Dec 12, 2020, 8:55 AM

How many actual arbiters of the law, whose job it is to know better than anyone else in the world, have to weigh in before we believe them? At what point do we realize the one telling us to ignore the experts doesn't actually care about us, but only about himself?

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Re: I dunno, I thought it was pretty good...


Dec 12, 2020, 10:08 AM

I got that right off.

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What you just said is dead on. However, if you are applying


Dec 12, 2020, 11:44 AM [ in reply to I dunno, I thought it was pretty good... ]

it to some issue you have in mind, and want us to do the same without knowing what you are talking about, it might be misapplied.

Let's just say, purely hypothetically, that one might apply this to covid and masks. I know that is not what you had in mind, but let's just say.

On one hand, we know that every randomized test that isolated the role of masks in slowing the spread of respiratory infection has shown that they do not do so. No test has shown that they do. We're talking a dozen of such tests. That is a fact.

Other scientist say we should wear masks, and they have their reasons for saying so. They are presumably sincere. They may have very good observational evidence, but that is what they have.

However, a mantra has developed that if you say you think masks don't work you're being anti science. For most of us, the opposite is true. We don't want us relying on a device that doesn't do what we think it is doing. We don't want us failing to develop responses that we should develop because we are banking on an ineffective device.

Any disagreement about the landscape we are looking at should be approached by discussing the evidence we both see. I know that is the point you are attempting to make, but as presented it sounds more like, "Why wont people think like me?"

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Re: What you just said is dead on. However, if you are applying


Dec 12, 2020, 12:47 PM

Tulsa,

Could it be that you "facts" are slanted ?

I looked up randomized test for mask efficiency. Every article I could find seemed to lead with the conclusion that mask compliance was low (several times under 50%). It seemed to me that it was impossible to keep low compliance from distorting ANY randomized tests results.

I think we can all agree that masks don't work if you don't wear them.

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Did you read articles or the test? The tests account for


Dec 12, 2020, 3:19 PM

compliance. But okay, lets assume it was compliance.

[The manufacturers themselves do not claim that their use will prevent infection. All they claim is how they perform.]

But let's say the issue is compliance. Let's assume that was the issue in the conclusion of the tests. If that is so, one has to face the fact that very motivated and well intentioned people - like those agreeing to be tested - are going to be compliant to a high degree. If that amount of non compliance, or if even the best intentioned people are not sufficiently compliant, relying on something that we know is not going to happen, regardless of intent, is very foolish, is it not?

Rather than face the fact that they are not working - for whatever reason - the left holds onto its need to blame someone other than the nature of the virus itself for the rate of infection. We are so politicized that stand on ideology rather than truth. A reply to me below went straight to politics, in adolescent fashion, rather deal with facts.

Masks are not working, even in the most compliant locations. We need to honestly admit to it, and find behavioral solutions that accurately address the nature of the virus, including who is at risk and who is not.

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But hold on: we don't likely disagree on much.


Dec 12, 2020, 3:46 PM [ in reply to Re: What you just said is dead on. However, if you are applying ]

I am not claiming masks don't work. The only thing I am claiming is that no randomized test, which isolates the effect of the mask only, has shown any significant effect. That is a fact, for which there is not controversy. It is a fact. But that is my only claim.

Therefore, the only assertions I make are that attitudes based on masks are freezing us into reliance on a device that is not shown to work, keeps us from realistically assessing behavior, and divides us into groups that focus on each other rather than the truth of the virus itself.

But Prodigal's parable wants me to blame someone, even to the same degree as someone not believing lab tests. That, I cannot do. All i am doing is choosing to believe lab tests, the thing his parable should want me to do.

But no, I am not going to argue that masks don't work. I am only going to refuse to base any conclusions on the assumption that they do, because no test - of a dozen or more - has shown they do.

I do wear a mask to a high degree of compliance. I just don't conclude that it's accomplishing much. I do know we are stuck on them, while they are clearly having no real effect. That is the price of ideology.

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Re: What you just said is dead on. However, if you are applying


Dec 12, 2020, 2:03 PM [ in reply to What you just said is dead on. However, if you are applying ]

Tulsa, every time the mainstream media shows video clips of over-crowded ICUs, every medical person (you can tell by the color of the scrubs) is wearing a mask, a shield, or both.

(Also, my daughter is a nurse in the ED of the largest hospital in SC, and she tells me that they all wear masks, or more, all day long. I just don't think she's lying about that.)


That's good (enough) instruction for me to wear a mask when encountering other people. (And, in my neighborhood, most don't.)

Are you watching other media wherein doctors and nurses in ICUs and EDs don't wear masks?

Or, should we just believe another, gullible follower of TheRump?

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Exhibit A.***


Dec 12, 2020, 3:03 PM



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Hopper, I will pray for your ED.***


Dec 13, 2020, 2:07 PM [ in reply to Re: What you just said is dead on. However, if you are applying ]



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Re: What you just said is dead on. However, if you are applying


Dec 12, 2020, 9:13 PM [ in reply to What you just said is dead on. However, if you are applying ]

Tulsa, I agree with the false narrative about wearing mask. I choose to wear a mask but know it is not going to stop we from getting the virus. The virus is running ramped where I live right now. The only way to avoid the virus is stay away from people you don't know or don't know where they have been. It is up to each person to weigh the risk and choose what is best for them. I wish everyone luck in not getting the virus.

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Take a few hits off the pipe.***


Dec 12, 2020, 9:02 AM



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Re: What would you do if you had chest pains...


Dec 12, 2020, 10:05 AM

Prod,

OW ! A hard truth about some people's NEED to be right - and how that can lead to the rejection of facts and evidence.

We are ALL susceptible to this need,, but acknowledging it is the first step to dealing with it rationally.

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Always listen to dad, he is always right.


Dec 12, 2020, 4:38 PM

That's what I tell my family.

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