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YOUR BALANCE
What is going on with the Navy?
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What is going on with the Navy?


Apr 6, 2020, 5:05 PM

So... Looks like the acting Secretary of the Navy felt compelled to go and explain his actions to the crew of the USS Roosevelt via their PA system. Within the first five minutes, Secretary Modly managed to insult Captain Crozier (they guy he fired) as either "naive" or "stupid". And it generally went down hill from there. The tone of the speech is that "the Captain caused me headaches in DC and therefore he is a bad man and shame on you for cheering him".

I served in the military for 27 years (retired US Army Colonel) and have never seen anything as bizarre as what the Secretary of the Navy just did. First there are a bunch of Admirals between the Secretary and the Commander of that ship. I have no idea why the Secretary had to personally fire Captain Crozier - one of those Admirals in the chain should have done it. Secondly - why in the hel1 is the Secretary flying all the way out to Guam just to get on the Roosevelt PA system to explain his reasons for firing Captain Crozier (which is totally unnecessary) by kicking him in the teeth in front of the crew. It is one thing for the Secretary to have these thoughts behind closed doors in private with the CNO, but for goodness sake - don't go calling the former Captain stupid and/or naive in front of all the sailors.

In my wildest dreams - I could never imagine the Secretary of the Army publicly doing this to a relieved Brigade Commander, Division Commander, Corps Commander or any Commander for that matter.

IMO, Secretary Modly has now shown HE has just as bad of judgement as the Captain he fired. If I were Sec Def Esper, Modly would be crap canned before the wheels on his plane touch down on US soil.

Article is attached but the audio recording of his address to the Roosevelt crew gives a whole new meaning to the phrase "what the hel1 are you doing?"

https://taskandpurpose.com/news/navy-secretary-blasts-fired-aircraft-carrier-captain


Audio of the address:
https://soundcloud.com/paul-szoldra/acting-secnav-modley-criticizing-capt-crozier-to-sailors-onboard-uss-theodore-roosevelt

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Re: What is going on with the Navy?


Apr 6, 2020, 5:09 PM

This “acting” Secretary is a disgrace to all who serve. He wants too talk about leadership? Really? It’s embarrassing at the very least. Order has left the building.

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Re: What is going on with the Navy?


Apr 6, 2020, 8:55 PM

So what happens to the Sailor(s) that recorded the audio and sent it. And how was it recorded when he was relieved of duty.

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Well - he is gone now- says he resigned


Apr 7, 2020, 10:40 PM [ in reply to Re: What is going on with the Navy? ]

Don’t think he decided to do that on his own

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Re: What is going on with the Navy?


Apr 6, 2020, 5:56 PM

AMEN. THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE. Everything you said is absolutely Right. Stay Safe and as always GO TIGERS

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Re: What is going on with the Navy?


Apr 6, 2020, 6:06 PM

The captain got what he deserved!!!!! In all his years, he never learned that you are supposed to follow the chain of command - not go public with a complaint. He embarrassed the Navy and the military.

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Re: What is going on with the Navy?


Apr 6, 2020, 6:11 PM

tHE TOP COMMANDER IS ROTTEN AND SHOULD HAVE BEEN IMPEACHED

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Re: What is going on with the Navy?


Apr 6, 2020, 6:20 PM [ in reply to Re: What is going on with the Navy? ]

ask his men , his sailors, if he embarrassed the Navy. I think you will get an answer different from your opinion.

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Re: What is going on with the Navy?


Apr 7, 2020, 12:09 PM

It is quite common for junior military members to have an over the top sense of loyalty towards and confidence in their much higher ups. They might curse a junior officer or middling NCO day and night but the CO is definitely off limits. I believe it helps relieve any insecurities that might arise if you allowed yourself to believe your life was in the hands of someone deficient in decision making or strategic thinking.

You can bet the Secretary of the Navy had been monitoring the situation onboard since the dismissal of the Captain. If the crew was openly "complaining" I bet there were other more serious things being said under their breath that were passed up the chain of command. and wouldn't assume an Admiral or two hadn't already addressed the crew or at leas counseled the top brass onboard the ship. The fact that the speech by SecNav was recorded and leaked reinforces to me just how resentful some members of the crew still are and much he needed to step in.

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Interesting parallel with actions of Teddy Roosevelt


Apr 6, 2020, 6:21 PM [ in reply to Re: What is going on with the Navy? ]

himself back in the day...

https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2020/04/04/theodore-roosevelt-captain-followed-in-footsteps-of-ships-namesake-by-writing-bombshell-letter/

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Bizarre indeed.


Apr 6, 2020, 6:10 PM

Neither the CO of the ship nor the SecNav should have a job right now.

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And the sailors should be disciplined as well


Apr 6, 2020, 7:08 PM



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Re: Bizarre indeed.


Apr 7, 2020, 12:13 PM [ in reply to Bizarre indeed. ]

I wouldn't go that far. The CO yes, SecNav, no. The CO embarrassed the Navy.

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And just like that he steps down.


Apr 7, 2020, 8:52 PM

I’m sure that wasn’t his decision.

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He overruled the CNO


Apr 6, 2020, 6:14 PM

who wanted to go through the standard process. Very unusual.

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Re: He overruled the CNO


Apr 6, 2020, 6:47 PM

He said he was in the Navy. Probably a Non Com or Junior Officer who got his kicks firing someone that outranked him.

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He's an academy grad too.


Apr 6, 2020, 6:54 PM

It's all pretty odd.

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Re: He overruled the CNO


Apr 7, 2020, 12:34 PM [ in reply to Re: He overruled the CNO ]

It's possible but I wouldn't say probable. The military has its share of senior officers who have a superiority complex and display open contempt for those under them. Senior Non Coms get tons of respect in all branches of the military btw. I don't know what SecNav's path was to his current position but I doubt he spends his time trying to get his kicks through it.

Message was edited by: orangecoloredglasses®


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Re: What is going on with the Navy?


Apr 6, 2020, 6:24 PM

I have never served in the military, but from my history degree perspective, it seemed well out of place for the secretary to take it this far. If he felt like he had to save the ship from a future mutiny , he did not get off on the right foot at all.

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Re: What is going on with the Navy?


Apr 6, 2020, 6:37 PM

Extremely poor judgement on SecNavs part. As Tabbyplague noted there is a chain of command which works BOTH ways. The captain broke that chain but this is equally egregious. I’m guessing a misguided attempt to tamp down the flames by pouring gasoline on them? Completely embarrassing for the Navy as a whole. I believe I’d replace him ASAP.

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Re: What is going on with the Navy?


Apr 6, 2020, 9:16 PM [ in reply to Re: What is going on with the Navy? ]

Same. I feel like he ###### up and now he'd doubling down on the fuckup.

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Re: What is going on with the Navy?


Apr 7, 2020, 12:32 PM

Whoever leaked the speech is the one who poured gas on the fire.

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Re: What is going on with the Navy?


Apr 7, 2020, 6:40 PM

Agreed but I was just referring to the crew as far as putting out fires. Not addressing the National audience.

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Re: What is going on with the Navy?


Apr 6, 2020, 6:36 PM

Perhaps he got the potty mouth from being around you know who. It's disgraceful that we have come to this. Instead of handling disagreements in a civil way, we disparage and call people bad names like kids.
He and the President, in a sense, have violated the Chain of Command. He with this action instead of letting the Captains's immediate superiors handle the situation and Trump by injecting himself in the criminal case of the Navy Seal.
We criticize the Chinese for throwing the Doctor who sounded alarm about the virus under the bus and, yet, we are doing as bad or even worse with the Inspector General, the Captain, those who testified before Congress, and on and on.

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This was done to please Trump.


Apr 6, 2020, 6:47 PM

So, the justification and the rationalization don't seem to fit, as usual.

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Re: This was done to please Trump.


Apr 6, 2020, 6:53 PM

Trump just said he was going to look in to this as to not ruin a man who has had a stellar career for having a bad day.Give the TDS a rest please.

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Re: What is going on with the Navy?


Apr 6, 2020, 6:53 PM

To many Village people songs.

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Capt. Crozier knowingly tanked his career


Apr 6, 2020, 7:02 PM

If you are wondering why the Capt. fell on his sword, maybe this Secretary IS your answer.

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Re: Capt. Crozier knowingly tanked his career


Apr 6, 2020, 7:59 PM

tHE CHAIN OF COMMAND HAS BEEN BROKEN BY THIS PRSESIDENT

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Re: Capt. Crozier knowingly tanked his career


Apr 6, 2020, 9:24 PM

KCTIGER said:

tHE CHAIN OF COMMAND HAS BEEN BROKEN BY THIS PRSESIDENT



Trump can't actually break the chain of command since he is the CIC, the top dog.

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Re: What is going on with the Navy?


Apr 6, 2020, 7:58 PM

Seems par for the course for public discourse these days, yee haw

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It is a product from leadership at the top


Apr 6, 2020, 8:22 PM

People see their President act like this on a daily basis. To this day I can’t believe people don’t see Trump’s poor leadership skills. It is scary. Trump will be gone one day. The people that still believe in him won’t. And yes I voted for him. He is unfit to represent this incredible country as a leader.

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Re: It is a product from leadership at the top


Apr 6, 2020, 8:49 PM

Ok I respectfully disagree.Hilliary would still be letting Chinese from Wuhan in the country.Part of that woke culture sort of thing.

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Chinese from Wuhan were never the problem


Apr 6, 2020, 9:07 PM

From what we know, most of the sparks that lit the epidemics on the west coast came from Americans coming from China. On the east coast and Chicago, it was travelers from Europe and China. It doesn't do any good to ban travel from China, if you don't actually ban travel from China. Flights from China are still landing every single day.

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Re: It is a product from leadership at the top


Apr 6, 2020, 8:49 PM [ in reply to It is a product from leadership at the top ]

Ok I respectfully disagree.Hilliary would still be letting Chinese from Wuhan in the country.Part of that woke culture sort of thing.

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A lot of people are unwilling to admit what you did.


Apr 6, 2020, 8:53 PM [ in reply to It is a product from leadership at the top ]

Not an easy thing to do, I would imagine. One that history will judge harshly. Good for you for admitting the error.

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Re: A lot of people are unwilling to admit what you did.


Apr 6, 2020, 9:03 PM

Never inferred that I made an error in voting for Trump.Will do so again.Re-engineering this great country is not something I am in favor of.I will TU you as you are a fellow Tiger who’s certainly entitled to your views.

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Re: It is a product from leadership at the top


Apr 7, 2020, 12:46 PM [ in reply to It is a product from leadership at the top ]

George Patton says hi.

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Re: It is a product from leadership at the top


Apr 7, 2020, 12:47 PM

Lee Emery too.

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I agree with you completely. Frankly, when I saw the


Apr 6, 2020, 9:01 PM

news about that, I immediately thought he deserved to be canned post haste.

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Thank you for your service!***


Apr 6, 2020, 9:03 PM



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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: What is going on with the Navy?


Apr 6, 2020, 9:23 PM

First of all- Thank You for your service!

I have not been following this story to be upfront. I have listened to the link you posted.

With that I am not in any way defending the character of the Secretary of the Navy. I have not heard of him in any way. Judged strictly by the audio you posted, I can’t say capt Crozier was in the right either. I don’t know all that the Sec of the Navy has done, but I do know Crozier went outside of the chain of command to the media of all places. I cannot imagine what he was thinking. If I had to guess, Crozier was a socially popular guy and didn’t respect his leadership. This doesnt give him the right to potentially put our national security at risk by going to the media... and that’s what he did. He deserved to have his job on the line with a move like that. He may have been a “good” guy, but as the Secretary rightly state that was either “stupid or naive.

As I said- this is all I know of the situation. Tell me where I’m wrong. Thanks again.

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Re: What is going on with the Navy?


Apr 6, 2020, 9:25 PM


So... Looks like the acting Secretary of the Navy felt compelled to go and explain his actions to the crew of the USS Roosevelt via their PA system. Within the first five minutes, Secretary Modly managed to insult Captain Crozier (they guy he fired) as either "naive" or "stupid". And it generally went down hill from there. The tone of the speech is that "the Captain caused me headaches in DC and therefore he is a bad man and shame on you for cheering him".

I served in the military for 27 years (retired US Army Colonel) and have never seen anything as bizarre as what the Secretary of the Navy just did. First there are a bunch of Admirals between the Secretary and the Commander of that ship. I have no idea why the Secretary had to personally fire Captain Crozier - one of those Admirals in the chain should have done it. Secondly - why in the hel1 is the Secretary flying all the way out to Guam just to get on the Roosevelt PA system to explain his reasons for firing Captain Crozier (which is totally unnecessary) by kicking him in the teeth in front of the crew. It is one thing for the Secretary to have these thoughts behind closed doors in private with the CNO, but for goodness sake - don't go calling the former Captain stupid and/or naive in front of all the sailors.

In my wildest dreams - I could never imagine the Secretary of the Army publicly doing this to a relieved Brigade Commander, Division Commander, Corps Commander or any Commander for that matter.

IMO, Secretary Modly has now shown HE has just as bad of judgement as the Captain he fired. If I were Sec Def Esper, Modly would be crap canned before the wheels on his plane touch down on US soil.

Article is attached but the audio recording of his address to the Roosevelt crew gives a whole new meaning to the phrase "what the hel1 are you doing?"

https://taskandpurpose.com/news/navy-secretary-blasts-fired-aircraft-carrier-captain


Audio of the address:

rel="nofollow">
https://soundcloud.com/paul-szoldra/acting-secnav-modley-criticizing-capt-crozier-to-sailors-onboard-uss-theodore-roosevelt




tabbyplague

30yr career Army here. Totally agree with each and every point you make.

What a clown show.

The Acting SecNav flying out to the ship to grandstand and take cheap shots at a guy that has been fired who had MANY YEARS of meritorious and honorable service? And do do so in public in front of his former officers and men? That to me shows a serious and unfixable character flaw.

I couldn't agree more. The Acting SecNav should be fired for "loss of confidence in his judgement and ability to lead" and for bringing such a level of discredit on the Navy and the DoD in general.

Should be done now, and all his personal #### from his office put in a box. No need for him to even come inside the pentagon to get it. Why show him more respect that he shows those below him.

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Re: What is going on with the Navy?


Apr 6, 2020, 9:54 PM

It’s a real Fubar.Maybe he should have gone a different route but was looking out for his men.His years of great service are also at play and should merit consideration.I can see some of both sides.And thank you for your service.

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For the record, Captain Crozier made a BIG mistake that you


Apr 6, 2020, 11:25 PM

would not expect of a seasoned officer - especially one selected to command an aircraft carrier. For starters, he put sensitive (if not classified) operational information on NIPR (unclassified network) as to where it should have been sent over SIPR (classified network). Then there is the whole chain of command issue. Bypassing the chain of command and airing ships business to people outside of that command is one of the biggest "no-no's" we are taught from day one. So Captain Crozier messed up and could reasonably expect some negative ramifications for that action. When Captain Crozier pressed that send button he knew a steaming turd was going to end up coming back his way.

Having said that, I still wonder why the Admirals in Captain Crozier's chain of command did not handle this situation instead of the Secretary of the Navy getting directly involved. There is something going on there that just doesn't smell right. I imagine it will come out sometime down the road. Ultimately, however, the Secretary of the Navy is well within his authority to fire Captain Crozier - even if it is very unusual for the Secretary to get directly involved.

So, the firing of Captain Crozier did not bother me near as much as what Secretary Modly did today. I have never seen a senior leader, much less a Service Secretary, publicly dance on the grave of an officer five levels below him that he just fired. Especially when the Secretary had to make a special effort to travel half way around the world to do that grave dance in front of the fired Captain's former subordinates. Modly has got to go - I suspect he will be given the choice of resign or be fired very soon.

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Re: For the record, Captain Crozier made a BIG mistake that you


Apr 7, 2020, 9:32 AM

Curious if POTUS could have commanded him to do it personally and ordered him to"shut it down"... I know that's not protocol but POTUS not being government oriented and been known to subvert coc in other levels of gov perhaps told him to snuff it out personally.... I'm asking.

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Re: For the record, Captain Crozier made a BIG mistake that you


Apr 7, 2020, 11:25 AM

My gut says the POTUS was not involved in any of this (the firing and especially Modly's actions yesterday). The POTUS interference narrative plays well to certain media quarters but for those of us that spent a lot of time in the military it just doesn't seem likely or feasible. We will see...

What I think has happened is that Modly (a Naval Academy Grad that only served his required 7 years) got his nose bent out of shape because Captain Crozier's actions caused him some level of pain among the barking DC crowd. Modly then let his former "Lieutenant Modly" identity take over his common sense leading him to think he knew better than all the Senior Admirals of how to deal with this mess. Seriously - Modly is acting like a young inexperienced officer lashing out in anger and not a Service Secretary.

Sec Def Esper should have wire brushed Modly's eyebrows yesterday and sent him to the reject pile. After that little stunt yesterday, Modly has alienated himself among a lot of the Navy - the very folks he is charged to lead. In the military, there is a code of honor that if you fire a guy, especially for non-criminal conduct, you leave the guy alone. You don't continue to criticize or belittle the guy - you've already ruined his career so anything else you say/do is just kicking the man while he is down.

I just don't see any scenario in which Modly will be confirmed by the Senate as the permanent Navy Secretary. So why stay in the job - he is a dead man walking and should resign.

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Re: For the record, Captain Crozier made a BIG mistake that you


Apr 7, 2020, 12:40 PM

tabbyplague, You are squarely on point again. Modly has displayed for all to see his lack of character. I'd bet that although he might have had decent fitreps, he probably exhibited this type of bullying behavior and lack of judgement as a junior officer as well, but hid it well from his boss. But that's a guess on my part and not relevant here.

All Modly had to do was turn to the CNO and tell him to fix the mess fast, and that would generated a phonecall to the PACFLT Commander and so on down... and the good Captain would have been relieved, the PAOs would have come out with some statements, and there would have been an admiral or two making some generic comments. It would have been blip in the news, some minor drama, and then everyone would go back to normal business. But now we have the big top pitched and clowns performing.

I've lost a lot of respect for Esper, now too. Let's fire an 06 for poor judgement but not fire the toxic leader at the top who is an embarrassment to the organization that he is supposed to lead.

Modly will not be confirmed. No way in hell after this.

If he doesn't resign before, then the new confrimed SECNAV should make it his first order of business to "assist" him in finding the door.

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Re: For the record, Captain Crozier made a BIG mistake that you


Apr 7, 2020, 6:50 PM

Great post and a dead on follow up! Glad to see he resigned. Best move he had left.

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Re: For the record, Captain Crozier made a BIG mistake that you


Apr 7, 2020, 7:42 PM [ in reply to Re: For the record, Captain Crozier made a BIG mistake that you ]

Tabby ..... you have nailed it exactly right on every post. I retired as Marine officer, although the majority of my time was in the reserves. There are certain things you learn as a 2nd Lieutenant that never change as you progress up the ranks. Captain Crozier forgot them. Two of my men in Viet Nam cut off the ears of some dead Viet Cong soldiers and it never entered my mind to not let my Company Commander know and let him handle it. The last person I would have told would have been the press or my friends who were supposed to be there helping with agriculture (CIA probably). It was shortly after the Calley trial had begun and we were under a microscope. You didn't let things like that poison the discipline of a unit.

The Secretary of the Navy, although justified in the firing, was equally inept and although most of the things he said in his talk to the men were correct, he handled it poorly. He probably would have been fine if not for the "stupid or naive" comment. Quite frankly, I'm not sure the guy is that smart.

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Re: What is going on with the Navy?


Apr 7, 2020, 12:46 PM

nothing going on with the Navy. Administration can't hire competent people because a)they generally won't work for it; and b)Stable Genius tends to fire any competent ones who disagree with him. Captain in point.

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Re: What is going on with the Navy?


Apr 7, 2020, 8:14 PM

Why did you have to come into a decent thread and take a dump on it?

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Re: What is going on with the Navy?


Apr 7, 2020, 5:34 PM

Thank you for your service! Go tigers!

Just saw this:.

https://wpde.com/news/coronavirus/acting-navy-boss-submits-resignation-amid-coronavirus-uproar


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Re: What is going on with the Navy?


Apr 8, 2020, 3:41 AM

That was quick.

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Re: What is going on with the Navy?


Apr 7, 2020, 7:03 PM

Not to worry, they fired his asss. They're letting on that he 'retired for the good of the Navy', but his incredibly bad decision making forced the worst public relations scandal in the last 60 years for the Navy.

He was an idiot, and they cut him loose. What he did was stupid.

https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2020/04/07/you-are-justified-in-being-angry-with-me-read-the-secnavs-final-memo-to-the-fleet/

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Re: What is going on with the Navy?


Apr 8, 2020, 1:02 AM

The Skipper should have been relieved, simple fact. However odds are he knew that was going to happen long before he ever hit send. Some say he did it for his crew, and maybe so. What he did was still wrong on so many levels, but something tells me he will be just fine. Full Military retirement, and given past examples a book deal forthcoming. As for Modly, nope, lines crossed on many levels. You relieved a guy, rule of thumb is you dont pee on his memory with the crew. You are already sitting on a pretty volatile situation, with disgruntled folks abounding. Now me, I'm a simple Jarhead, we LIVE to be disgruntled, but this has carried on too long, worth too much press. Navy will probably be making some changes via orders all over that ship in the very near future if I had to guess.

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Re: What is going on with the Navy?


Apr 8, 2020, 1:03 AM

Well put. Multiple wrongs all over this deal.

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