Replies: 21
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Hall of Famer [20518]
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Psst...hey fellas, Ranked Choice Voting
Feb 22, 2021, 9:28 AM
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And here's the boat lots and lots of us are in right now.
We don't really belong under the Dems' Big Tent, but we definitely aren't Trumpistas. This binary two-party reality just ain't working for a lot of us any more, and we'd really like room for more than two tired old options on the menu, please....
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/02/22/anti-trump-republicans-third-party-470783
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: Psst...hey fellas, Ranked Choice Voting
Feb 22, 2021, 9:37 AM
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Quo,
Two separate questions that are tangential to your RCV.
1. Would you prefer a more parliamentary system, if that were possible ?
2. Could RCV lead us in that general direction ?
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Hall of Famer [20518]
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Re: Psst...hey fellas, Ranked Choice Voting
Feb 22, 2021, 10:07 AM
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Dunno.
What I would like is a lot more talk about issues. I don't really hate anybody and I don't really believe the enemy is anybody within America, we need to de-polarize and start talking like adults...well, except for that celebratory moment when we pants Tucker Carlson, then give him a flagpole wedgie, and just sorta let him dangle like the fool he is for a day or so off the front porch of 1600 Pennsylvania while schoolchildren throw eggs and rotten lettuce at him because I think it'd be funny.
Whatever. The reflex extremism is annoying. You suggest this guy who's worked for you for 20 years deserves, you know, actual insurance rather than a leather strap to bite down on while we saw his arm off and maybe an Advil or two afterwards and Back To Work With You, there, partner...and the GOP's got people conditioned now to scream "SOCIALISM!" Because the GOP is headed back to outright lead-pipe Fascism in a motherhuge hurry, and in the other direction, while Joe is fending them off, there's still a significant noisy minority helmed by Bernie but that includes a very significant group of young bucks led by AOC and her cohort that would actually love outright Socialism on the left. Shucks, Ro Khanna suggested in another post around here $23/hour was an insult to minimum-wage workers. Okay.
I don't like the pulls to extremism and the moderate voices get shouted down, in our current two party system. RCV takes away the power of the bullhorn, and all of a sudden is what you get is a marketplace, a bunch of people selling themselves and their ideas and talking about what they themselves have to offer instead of trying to convince the angry mob to go over and obliterate the other guy. I like that way a lot better.
It might end up being a parliamentary system here. Be interesting to see how it would go in America. I suspect you'd see some interesting alliances form and dissolve over the years. It definitely would not be as entrenched as our current system, whatever.
But we'd definitely have to talk a lot more, and scream at each other a lot less. And I think that'd be healthy.
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Hall of Famer [23969]
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Re: Psst...hey fellas, Ranked Choice Voting
Feb 22, 2021, 11:08 AM
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A good portion of the constitution would have to be rewritten (which would not happen) to have a parliamentary system. I could definitely see 4 political parties at this point.
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Hall of Famer [20518]
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Re: Psst...hey fellas, Ranked Choice Voting
Feb 22, 2021, 11:25 AM
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I agree. It seems there are basically 4 natural parties co-existing under two roofs right now, and they really are not co-existing comfortably with one another right now.
I actually think the center-left and center-right want to - and need to - make common cause right now and right the ship, but because of the way are politics are aligned aren't being allowed to at the moment.
I actually think you might see more movement than that over time, given some time for movements to evolve. My guess would be you'd see ever-shifting caucuses within Congress become the bigger power blocs and parties would start becoming more local, which I actually think would probably be healthier.
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: Psst...hey fellas, Ranked Choice Voting
Feb 22, 2021, 1:38 PM
[ in reply to Re: Psst...hey fellas, Ranked Choice Voting ] |
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fuller
Agreed, but if you had 4 parties wouldn't some quasi-parliamentary coalitions have to be formed to pass any bills ??
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Hall of Famer [23969]
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Re: Psst...hey fellas, Ranked Choice Voting
Feb 22, 2021, 6:39 PM
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Tobias - I don't want to get hung up on the term Parliamentary. When I think Parliamentary, I think the UK form. I think our system as set forth by the constitution is better. Based on the root word of parliament - parley (negotiate) or parler (to speak), I think a 4 party system would bring about more fruitful negotiations in congress.
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All-In [46800]
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Which parts would have to be rewritten for RCV
Feb 22, 2021, 2:15 PM
[ in reply to Re: Psst...hey fellas, Ranked Choice Voting ] |
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And we could have a hybrid parliament/presidential system.
It hasn't been done before. Have a parliamentary system in Congress with multiple parties, coalitions, etc.
But keep the president as the chief executive instead of a prime minister.
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All-In [42021]
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Would love some ranked voting...
Feb 22, 2021, 9:42 AM
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And this it the last thing the GOP wants. This will guarantee Dem power for decades if it holds.
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All-TigerNet [13006]
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Re: Would love some ranked voting...
Feb 22, 2021, 10:03 AM
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Pretty sure mail-in voting and drop boxes secured that.
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All-In [42021]
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Yes, I forgot how much...
Feb 22, 2021, 11:27 AM
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Y'all hate getting more people out to vote.
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110%er [5647]
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Re: Yes, I forgot how much...
Feb 22, 2021, 4:13 PM
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...hate getting more people out to vote that are not registered, dead, or never existed.
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Hall of Famer [20518]
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Re: Yes, I forgot how much...
Feb 22, 2021, 4:16 PM
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Find 'em.
Prove they voted. Heck, find one.
Seems like proving it happened at scale would be pretty trivial.
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All-In [42021]
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"All the fraud!!1!
Feb 23, 2021, 7:52 AM
[ in reply to Re: Yes, I forgot how much... ] |
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There was so much fraud in the last election but I just can't prove it! But trust me, it was there!"
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All-TigerNet [13605]
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Re: Would love some ranked voting...
Feb 22, 2021, 2:13 PM
[ in reply to Would love some ranked voting... ] |
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Personally, I don't think the far right NOR the far left would want it.
It would guarantee the middle wins time and again.
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Legend [17241]
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“I’ll tip my hat to the new constitution. Take a bow ...
Feb 22, 2021, 9:58 AM
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for the new revolution. Pick up my guitar and play. Just like yesterday. Then I’ll get on my knees and pray. We don’t get fooled again.”
Flashback..... sorry.
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110%er [9646]
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A third "boring" party in between the 2 extremes would be
Feb 22, 2021, 11:11 AM
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awesome. The GOP folks would need to find some very moderate Dems to come with them. That is very unlikely since the Dems are "on top" right now.
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: A third "boring" party in between the 2 extremes would be
Feb 22, 2021, 1:41 PM
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I don't know, Joey. I think a significant number of Dems are a little worried about their colleagues on the far left. They might be open to some Reps who were willing to ease off of some of their more conservative positions.
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110%er [9646]
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I hope you're right - I think a valid 3rd party option
Feb 22, 2021, 2:22 PM
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would help to erase the extremes.
I do think the Dems would be more open to it if they didn't currently "control" the WH, House, and (basically) the Senate.
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Hall of Famer [21858]
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This quote sums up the problem
Feb 22, 2021, 2:18 PM
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"The big question about a third party is, what are they going to stand for that the other two parties don’t?"
The answer should be pretty easy...working class Americans. You know, your everyday, run of the mill family of 4 who just want more money in their pockets, safety for their friends and families, and the world to be better for their kids than it was for them.
I don't ever see it happening simply from a financial perspective. The two current parties, or the Uniparty, have too much power and money.
The situation in Washington will never change without a serious domestic conflict and/or total economic collapse, in my opinion.
I need to re-read Washington's farewell address. It's pretty foggy, but I remember a few nice sections in it that pertained to this very topic.
Ranked choice voting is a good idea that is worth exploring. I don't see it getting implemented due to the potential impact to the current status quo.
If we move away from in-person voting (which I disagree with on a personal level), expanding the choices only matters if the degree of influence in the existing political parties shifts, or is limited, as well. Take the GA senate run-offs, for example. How much money was spent on those? Couple that with all the money that was spent behind the scenes, and we've (citizens) got ourselves a mess that allow them (oligarchs) to do whatever they want.
This may be cynical, but the issue with the current system is that it's designed exactly how those in power want it to be. Control the masses through rhetoric present in only a few percentage points of each extremes, and then it's a simple Divide and Conquer. The people selecting and paying the politicians keep greasing the wheels of government in their favor, and it goes on and on and on and on.
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Hall of Famer [20518]
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Re: This quote sums up the problem
Feb 22, 2021, 2:39 PM
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It's actually starting to creep onto the ballots quite a few places. Alaska and Maine both have it now, and not surprisingly, Lisa Murkowski and Susan Collins felt a lot less primary fear. Even if Murkowski gets "primaried" - which she undoubtedly will - she's still going to wind up on the ballot, and she earned mad points with the libs for voting against Trump, while at the same time the 'Pubs will hate her less than a true lib. Guess who wins in a general election there because she strolled right down the center lane?
You see RCV on all 50 states, and polarizing extremist politics is right out the window. It's: let's sit down and do some math, folks. Guys like you would love it.
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Heisman Winner [111391]
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hmm... good chance
Feb 22, 2021, 8:27 PM
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Bernie would be sitting the Whitehouse right now.
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Replies: 21
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