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YOUR BALANCE
Basketball assistant says something suspect and the whole staff should be fired.
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Basketball assistant says something suspect and the whole staff should be fired.


Apr 25, 2019, 9:48 PM

Three football players are found to have a banned substance in their system, and not only should no coaches be fired, but the coaches and players aren’t suspected of any wrongdoing. The assumption is that the substances were planted and/or it was an innocent mistake.

Both situations involve possible illegal activity/cheating. The difference is that one sport is beloved and automatically gets the benefit of the doubt from fans, and the other isn’t and doesn’t.

I am disappointed that Clemson fans don’t consistently stand behind our coaches and players, regardless of the sport. We should always give our coaches and players the benefit of the doubt, and assume the best, unless the actual facts tell us otherwise.

That’s all I have to say. Carry on.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Right on time, Judge***


Apr 25, 2019, 9:50 PM



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Snowflake Basher........Out


With you most of the time and most of the way on this one


Apr 25, 2019, 9:50 PM

But Smith needs to go

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I agree, I don't see how he will keep his job.


Apr 25, 2019, 10:59 PM

My overall point is that we should see what the facts say and not assume that the entire basketball program is at fault, even though Smith likely is.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


That was not the overall point you made***


Apr 25, 2019, 11:57 PM



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Re: With you most of the time and most of the way on this one


Apr 25, 2019, 11:03 PM [ in reply to With you most of the time and most of the way on this one ]

I mean for Smith it is different. Brownell might be wait and see unless they just feel it is drawing too much bad publicity to the Athletic Department.
Also Smith was caught on camera, looks sketchy at the least.

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Re: Basketball assistant says something suspect and the whole staff should be fired.


Apr 25, 2019, 9:54 PM

The difference one is on tape talking about cheating.

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"Anybody that says Coach Brownell is the best coach to come through Clemson is going to start an argument." -JP Hall


This.


Apr 25, 2019, 11:07 PM

I just don't see how these situations are comparable.

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Well, both involve potentially illegal activity.


Apr 25, 2019, 11:13 PM

The details of the two issues are obviously different. My point is that Clemson football gets the benefit of the doubt and Clemson basketball evidently doesn't.

I've read dozens of posts here on TigerNet tonight saying that our entire basketball coaching staff should be fired for this. "Brownell is responsible for what happens, and he should be fired." Mind you, nothing illegal is proven to have occurred, and even if it were, there is zero proof that any of our other coaches knew about this.

Meanwhile, I've seen no one calling for Dabo and our entire football coaches to be fired, despite the fact that three players (one of whom is one of our star players) had banned substances in their system. I didn't see anyone saying that our football players should be banned for having this substance in their urine. Instead, all I saw was support for them, to the point that it was suggested that someone from Alabama or the NCAA planted the substance.

Why can't our fans give our basketball program the same benefit of the doubt?

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


I dunno. Maybe because the freakin FBI is involved in one of


Apr 25, 2019, 11:18 PM

these scenarios?

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Re: I dunno. Maybe because the freakin FBI is involved in one of


Apr 26, 2019, 2:29 AM

And he’s on tape.

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"Anybody that says Coach Brownell is the best coach to come through Clemson is going to start an argument." -JP Hall


I'm not defending Smith. I'm defending everyone else


Apr 26, 2019, 11:29 AM

involved in our basketball program.

I would like to get more info regarding what Smith said and the context of the conversation. However, based on what I have heard, I think he should be fired now.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Again, I'm not saying they are exactly the same situation.


Apr 26, 2019, 11:28 AM [ in reply to I dunno. Maybe because the freakin FBI is involved in one of ]

But you can't deny the fact that the support for our football program in the fact of the ostarine was immediate and overwhelmingly positive (as it should be). But when our basketball program's ethics are questioned, people here assume that all of our coaches are guilty and all should be fired. Heck, I even read one post here saying that we should just scrap the whole program.

Do you find these two approaches consistent in any way?

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Nope


Apr 26, 2019, 12:56 PM

The players were and continue to be disciplined and not a soul on staff is implicated in the least. The situations could not be more different

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I'm not equating the two situations as exactly the same.


Apr 29, 2019, 12:31 PM

I have said this many times already.

But from a fan's perspective, rushing to judgment should not be okay. Supporting our coaches and players in an innocent until proven guilty manner should be the standard. It is in football, but evidently it is not in basketball.

It's okay to be mad at Smith. It's okay to justify firing him based on this situation. But calling for the entire staff to also be fired is immature and a huge overreaction.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


When have you ever seen someone question...


Apr 26, 2019, 3:33 AM [ in reply to Well, both involve potentially illegal activity. ]

Our BB players? Its always been the fault of the coaches. They aren't good and now they are being talken about by the FBI. What exactly are you defending?

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It's typical Clemson fan behavior.


Apr 26, 2019, 11:31 AM

Football gets the benefit of the doubt in the face of illegal activity, and basketball doesn't.

I'm defending our basketball program, which I shouldn't have to do to our very own fans.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: This.


Apr 26, 2019, 9:40 AM [ in reply to This. ]

They're not comparable.

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I see you specifically said the whole staff but


Apr 25, 2019, 10:15 PM

If smith did what is said, you do agree he should be gone right? Can’t compare asking for money for recruiting and known breaking of recruiting rules with visits etc. with a substance that can easily be in a work out supplement and unknown to coaches or players. You do agree that if guilty as charged that smith should be gone right?

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I think Smith should be fired.


Apr 25, 2019, 11:07 PM

Simply based on what he said on the tape.

He will be fired tomorrow based on what I've heard.

My point is that our fans were quick to not only bail on Smith, but our entire coaching staff. I've read dozens of posts here tonight saying that the Smith tape is justification to fire all of our basketball coaches. That's ridiculous, and based on nothing more than a dislike of our coaches and a lack of support for them.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Ok fair enough.***


Apr 26, 2019, 7:22 AM



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Re: I think Smith should be fired.


Apr 26, 2019, 9:17 AM [ in reply to I think Smith should be fired. ]

I am guessing the administration has actually seen the tape. If not then I would think that only a suspension is in order. Even has critical as I am of the basketball program, I don't think that we should fire someone on another person's characterization of a tape. I want to know the facts and context first.

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It's based on the fact that if our historically crappy


Apr 26, 2019, 11:25 AM [ in reply to I think Smith should be fired. ]

basketball program derails a budding football dynasty, many of our fans think we ought to shut the entire program down. Because, again, CLEMSON IS A FOOTBALL SCHOOL (doo dah, doo dah).

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I see that as an immature reaction.


Apr 26, 2019, 11:41 AM

I get it, football is the most important sport at Clemson. But wanting to shut down the entire men's basketball program - the only other program besides football to be profitable - simply because an assistant went rogue and made some vague statements about the football program without a shred of information, is overreacting big time.

People need to step back and take a deep breath.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


If it ends there, then there's really no issue.


Apr 26, 2019, 12:21 PM

There is an if in both of these sentences. Neither of us know sitting here today if this is the story or the beginning of a story.

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Re: Basketball assistant says something suspect and the whole staff should be fired.


Apr 25, 2019, 11:31 PM

Sorry Judge, but in my view this comparison is completely invalid. Not merely apples/oranges but rather comparing apples to cowshit.

I don’t even fully understand the implications of what I heard from the testimony/reporting today but it included horse’s mouth behavior that at a minimum is not inline with the core values of Clemson. Frankly, I think the guy was blowing smoke but time will tell.

The issue with three of our football players remains a separate and completely different issue. It IS completely reasonable that those players may have inadvertently taken something that was banned. It’s been documented to have happened in other sports. Some of those athletes were actually cleared.

I’ve followed your commentary on Clemson basketball for sometime Judge and have always appreciated your perspective, but your immediate and reflexive response of using an unresolved issue of banned dietary supplement and drawing equivalency to quoted wire taps of an unethical moron on our basketball staff is just sick.

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I'm not comparing the two situations.


Apr 26, 2019, 11:56 AM

I'm contrasting the reaction by our "fans" to potential illegal activity within two separate athletic programs on our campus.

I think it's great how our fans rallied around our football program with the ostarine issue. The assumption wasn't that the players cheated, but that it was an innocent mistake. The assumption wasn't that our coaches endorsed this or helped them cheat, but that they had no knowledge of it.

I wish our fans would do the same for basketball. As I've said, Smith should be fired based on what I heard on the tape. But let's not assume that all of our other coaches and staff knew about this or endorsed this or should be punished for this. At least not at this point, because we don't have all of the facts.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Please stop or delete.***


Apr 26, 2019, 1:03 PM



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Re: I'm not comparing the two situations.


Apr 27, 2019, 3:05 AM [ in reply to I'm not comparing the two situations. ]

You were comparing not contrasting sir. Those two are different both in literature and life. Contrasting is a literally device that points out differences. Comparison is just that, pointing out similarities.

You said what you said and it was clear you meant it. Wordsmith it all you want. I get it.

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Apples to oranges....


Apr 25, 2019, 11:59 PM

Video evidence vs very likely tainted supplement.

But I fully expected a defensive post for your precious....surprised it took you this long.

Either CBB was involved or he had a rogue assistant. Either way it's BAD for him...

BTW, check out USADA statement in this article on ostarine in the UFC..

https://mmajunkie.com/2019/04/four-ufc-fighters-get-six-month-usada-suspensions-over-supplements

"USADA’s athlete advisory recognizes the demonstrated prevalence of ostarine in a wide range of supplement products used by athletes (see USADA High Risk List for more than 70 products) and that ostarine has frequently been found as a product contaminant."

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"Clemson has been historically better than Carolina. That's pretty obvious." - Classof09

"No one knew we were overhyped until the season started." - Classof09


It's not apples to oranges when it comes to supporting


Apr 26, 2019, 11:43 AM

our athletic teams at Clemson.

Football gets the benefit of the doubt, basketball doesn't.

Smith should be fired immediately. Brownell should also if he was involved in this. But let's actually get more facts first, shall we?

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


The situations you're trying to compare are apples to oranges


Apr 26, 2019, 12:46 PM

You blindly support anything and everything brad brownell related.

We support our athletic teams, I do not support a coach caught on a FBI wiretap.

And as I've said before, this is BAD for your precious, regardless of his actual involvement.

I also haven't called for CBB to be fired for this situation.....yet

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"Clemson has been historically better than Carolina. That's pretty obvious." - Classof09

"No one knew we were overhyped until the season started." - Classof09


Re: Basketball assistant says something suspect and the whole staff should be fired.


Apr 26, 2019, 2:48 AM

The coach was caught on FBI tape conspiring to cheat... kind of hard to give the benefit of the doubt there.

Hope it ends at the assistant and doesn’t permeate the program.

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I'm not defending Smith. He should be fired.


Apr 26, 2019, 11:45 AM

But I am defending all of the other coaches and staff members who work their tails off for our basketball program, and very likely had no knowledge of what Smith was doing.

I am sure that if an assistant football coach was on tape saying these things, fans wouldn't be calling for all of our coaching staff to be fired. Instead, they would wait to hear all of the evidence and draw conclusions at that point. You know, what rational people do.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: Basketball assistant says something suspect and the whole staff should be fired.


Apr 26, 2019, 3:30 AM

If a Clemson football coach was found openly cheating...then we can talk.

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Was Smith cheating?


Apr 26, 2019, 11:46 AM

I don't know. It certainly sounds like he was trying to, or at least act like he would be willing to. That alone is grounds for dismissal in my opinion. But let's actually see if there was a paper trail, if an offer was made by Clemson or anyone connected to Clemson, if money changed hands, if Brownell or any other coaches knew, etc. before going nuts. This entails supporting our other coaches unless we hear a reason not to.

Can you do that?

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Not remotely comparable


Apr 26, 2019, 3:43 AM

I missed the part where one of Dabo’s assistants was caught on tape casting aspersions about Clemson’s basketball program cheating. I’m honestly shocked it took you so long to come to Brad’s defense.

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Not remotely comparable~THIS~***


Apr 26, 2019, 10:06 AM



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I'm not comparing the details of the situations.


Apr 26, 2019, 11:49 AM [ in reply to Not remotely comparable ]

But I am comparing the fact that possible illegal activity occurred within each program. And more importantly, I am contrasting the reaction by our fans.

In football, people immediately defended our players and coaches and assumed that they did nothing wrong. This was despite verified lab testing showing a banned substance in the urine of three players.

In basketball, when possible illegal activity occurred, people here go nuts, want to fire all of our coaches, and one person even wants to scrap the whole basketball program.

If you can't see a discrepancy here, I can't help you.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


You should know more than anyone


Apr 26, 2019, 1:00 PM

that some wanting the basketball staff fired goes way beyond this. This, is just gas on the fire

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I do know that, which is why I'm calling it out.***


Apr 29, 2019, 12:32 PM



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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Winning


Apr 26, 2019, 7:26 AM

Football has earned the benefit of the doubt and basketball hasn’t. That’s primarily what it boils down to for me.

Success gets you a lot more leeway and basketball doesn’t have success on their side.

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We should support all coaches and players at Clemson


Apr 26, 2019, 11:51 AM

whether they play football or any other sport.

If a coach is doing illegal things, he should be fired. Smith should be gone.

If Brownell knew about this and/or was involved, he should be fired too.

But we should get all of the facts first before we freak out.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: Basketball assistant says something suspect and the whole staff should be fired.


Apr 26, 2019, 10:09 AM

They should’ve been fired before all this due to lack of making ncaa tourneys. Now this idiot Steve Smith involves the fbi and mentions our football program. Hell no! Fire all of them

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Sorry Judge, but I have to respectfully disagree. The two


Apr 26, 2019, 10:15 AM

situations could not be more different. In the ostarine controversy, no one to this day knows what the hayall happened. The FBI (That is Federal Bureau of Investigation, not the ball-less NCtwoA) has one of our basketball coaches recorded on videotape discussing illegal activities as the norm.

I don't recommend firing the whole coaching staff, but Smith should certainly be gone already, do not pass go, do not collect $200. And, Clemson should thoroughly investigate what anyone else may have known or done in conjunction with that.

I have had immense pride these last 10 years that Dabo has been successful doing things the right way. Any allegation by anyone, especially a rogue assistant basketball coach, that this is not the case should be dealt with quickly and transparently. To do otherwise is inviting a wildfire to take off and burn everything that he has worked for to the ground.

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exactly...I would willingly sacrifice this basketball staff


Apr 26, 2019, 10:19 AM

to maintain and not hurt the football program in any way. He went rogue and then tried to pull everyone else into his actions. Much like a speeder going down the highway says to the policeman to justify his actions....everyone else was speeding.

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I don't disagree.


Apr 26, 2019, 12:00 PM [ in reply to Sorry Judge, but I have to respectfully disagree. The two ]

Smith should be fired.

If Brad knew about this, he should be fired.

If any other assistant or staff member were involved in this, they should be fired too.

But let's see what comes of an investigation, and support everyone else within our program unless it is proven that they did something to lose our support.

Like you, I am proud of our football program and its ethics. But I am also very proud of the ethics within our basketball program, and won't stand around while purported Clemson fans try to use these actions by Smith to call the ethics of the rest of our coaching staff into question.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Good post***


Apr 26, 2019, 1:04 PM



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There is a significant difference between three players


Apr 26, 2019, 10:17 AM

having ostarine in their system and a basketball coach caught on tape. Significant.

1. Even the US Anti Doping Agency acknowledges you can get ostarine from dietary supplements. From their website...

"However, you should be aware that some dietary supplement manufacturers illegally put SARMs like ostarine in their products and sell them as “legal steroids” or “research only” chemicals."

While against NCAA rules no one is going to call the federal authorities if you take a supplement and it happens to contain a substance. You obviously pay a penalty.

2. NCAA rules were changed a few years ago to eliminate a head coach of lack of knowledge of one of his assistants actions. It was changed to eliminate a head coach being able to simply say over and over...I wasn't aware. The head coach is responsible.

3. Football drives the bus at Clemson and always will. When the assistant coach Smith tried to pull football into his discussion on tape he crossed a line.

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Re: There is a significant difference between three players


Apr 26, 2019, 11:55 AM

First off... @Judge Keller® isn't defending Smith. He hasn't defended him in any post he's made.

Secondly...let me rephrase and ask it differently:

- Should Terrell McIntyre and Antonio Reynolds-Dean automatically lose their jobs over Steve Smith's words in this tape?

- If your answer to that is 'yes' (which for many here, it seems to be), then why wouldn't Todd Bates and Mike Reed automatically lose their jobs for the ostarine test results?

All parties are third parties who, until given evidence otherwise, are independent of the event (wiretapped phone call / ostarine test results). For all we know, Lawrence walked straight into a supplement store and said, "Hey. Give me some ostarine." Do I believe that's what happened? No. But until we have more evidence as to what Brownell, Bender, Reynolds-Dean, Simmons, McIntyre, etc. (some of you won't even know half of the names I just listed, unfortunately) knew of the situation, why should they be treated any differently than the football coaches (under any kind of cheating or potential cheating scenario)?

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Thank you. I agree 100%.***


Apr 26, 2019, 12:03 PM



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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Judge


Apr 26, 2019, 11:02 AM

It proves the loser mentality development under the guidance of your dear friend, Brownell.
Carry On.

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I'll tell you what a loser mentality is.


Apr 26, 2019, 12:05 PM

It is failing to support everyone on our basketball staff not named Steve Smith, despite the fact that there is currently zero evidence that they have done anything wrong.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


As I've stated before.


Apr 26, 2019, 12:56 PM

I support our student athletes. Not a coach or staff that has proven to fail the men's bb team over and over.hth.

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You do realize you're attempting to stir up crap to


Apr 26, 2019, 1:05 PM [ in reply to I'll tell you what a loser mentality is. ]

deflect, right?

Please stop or delete.

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Stirring up crap? Deflecting?


Apr 29, 2019, 12:28 PM

The ostarine situation provides us a very recent example from a few months ago, involving potential illegal activity within another Clemson program, to use as a comparison point to this situation with our basketball program's potential illegal activity. It is very relevant to bring up both, especially since the reaction by many people here has been 180 degrees.

As I've said before, why can't some of you actually wait until we have more information before criticizing and calling for everyone to be fired?

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Loser mentality? Geez, not a good thing for a "Judge" to say***


Apr 27, 2019, 10:00 AM [ in reply to I'll tell you what a loser mentality is. ]



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Clemson is a football school. Deal with it.***


Apr 26, 2019, 11:22 AM



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What on earth does that have to do with supporting


Apr 26, 2019, 12:08 PM

members of our basketball program not named Steve Smith?!?

The fact that you view supporting football and supporting basketball as an either-or decision is exactly the problem. How about you support BOTH?

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: Basketball assistant says something suspect and the whole staff should be fired.


Apr 26, 2019, 12:06 PM

Off topic, but where was the money coming from that Steve Smith was going to pay Zion?

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Most likely a special


Apr 26, 2019, 12:25 PM

offering from NewSpring

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Aspiring member of the TigerNet Sewer Dwellers


Ugh. This is total nonsense.


Apr 26, 2019, 12:34 PM

Clearly you have overwhelming respect for Brownell. And that’s fine. I get that.

Clearly you think “cleaning house in the basketball program” is a significant overreaction. And that’s fine. I get that.

But equating the failed drug tests to a seven year assistant getting caught on tape talking about taking bribes and breaking recruiting rules is absolutely laughable.

Regarding your frustration about Clemson fans, in total, caring more about football, I want to offer you this insight: CLEMSON FANS, IN TOTAL, CARE MORE ABOUT FOOTBALL. You have to get over this indisputable fact. And at Duke and UNC, fans care more about basketball. It’s not “wrong” to like what you like. We don’t owe you an even level of passion, any more than you owe us a love for the women’s crew coach as much as you apparently love men’s basketball.

One of the things that really angers me about Smith is that he casually implies that football players are on the take. But at least he thought he was having a private conversation. You’re publicly saying that we have an assistant taking bribes and breaking recruiting rules and your public response is “I fail to see how this is any different than the football program.”

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Re: Ugh. This is total nonsense.


Apr 26, 2019, 12:56 PM

You're taking what he's saying completely out of context.

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Am I? How so?***


Apr 26, 2019, 1:07 PM



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null


Re: Am I? How so?***


Apr 26, 2019, 3:43 PM

Because in no way is he making the two actions equal. They're similar in that they deal with illegal, unethical matters, but nowhere did Judge Keller® say anything about them being identical.

What he said was the truth...that the reaction from the fan base when cheating or prospective cheating happens in football is completely different from the reaction from the fan base when cheating or prospective cheating takes place in basketball. If the roles were reversed, if it were a football coach in that room talking to Christian Dawkins, there'd be FAR more people on here, based on what they've posted, that would say, "Let's wait on an investigation first," or, "I'm sure this is a misunderstanding," or, "This has to be a rogue, by-himself assistant...no way should this touch Dabo."

Like I've said elsewhere in this thread...

All parties are third parties who, until given evidence otherwise, are independent of the event (wiretapped phone call / ostarine test results). For all we know, Lawrence walked straight into a supplement store and said, "Hey. Give me some ostarine." Do I believe that's what happened? No. But until we have more evidence as to what Brownell, Bender, Reynolds-Dean, Simmons, McIntyre, etc. (some of you won't even know half of the names I just listed, unfortunately) knew of the situation, why should they be treated any differently than the football coaches (under any kind of cheating or potential cheating scenario)?

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Nope. I think you’re wrong.


Apr 26, 2019, 11:13 PM

He most certainly did equate the two and he tries to shame the Clemson fan base for the disparity between the two reactions. It’s nonsense. And I do say that with all due respect to the judge...he just went too far here. And your defense does the same. How you make the assumption that a veteran assistant football coach getting caught on tape by the FBI taking bribes and violating recruiting rules would have solicited a different reaction is beyond me. That’s some impressive psychic stuff. But also, I do think we would see a disparity in reaction and a justified one at that, because Dabo’s program is a source of great pride for Clemson fans, so this guy’s casual insinuations don’t sit as well as if we had heard a football coach say that about the basketball program (that’s just a guess...I’m not psychic).

Thanks for the clarification. We just interpret the OP very differently.

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null


No, you're wrong.


Apr 29, 2019, 12:21 PM

I did not equate the two situations at all. My point was that both situations involve potential illegal activity within the two programs, and that the fan base defaulted to defending our football program and giving it the benefit of the doubt, while doing the exact opposite regarding our basketball program.

The proper reaction in both situations is to wait on all evidence before condemning people, especially since those people who are employed by Clemson University and have represented our school very well. The rush to judgment by some here regarding our basketball program was disgusting. Whether they did so because they want Brownell fired, or because Smith mentioned football, it was an overreaction and shows a total lack of objectivity in my opinion.

As I've said before, I believe Smith should (and will) be fired. If there is any evidence that other coaches, including Brownell, were engaging in illegal activity, they should be fired too. But at this point, there is zero evidence that they had anything to do with this or knew anything about it, and as such, we should continue to support them because they are Clemson people.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


This is a really disappointing reaction to the BB deal


Apr 26, 2019, 12:50 PM

Probably best if you just delete the post.

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You want to delete a post that requests that our fans


Apr 29, 2019, 12:24 PM

be reasonable by supporting our basketball program and giving our coach and his staff the benefit of the doubt before rushing to judgment based on limited information?

It is ridiculous that some of our "fans" here are assuming the worst about our basketball program and want to fire all of them based on the little bit of info we know.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Does it take 5 RA's to get a post deleted?***


Apr 26, 2019, 1:01 PM



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Re: Basketball assistant says something suspect and the whole staff should be fired.


Apr 26, 2019, 4:03 PM

I respectfully disagree with your premise.

I support coaches who are successful, I don't subsidize their incompetence.

Brownell has been given more than enough time to build this program.

I do not condemn him for the actions of Smith, I won't support him just because he's the coach.

He should be judged based on his results, just like Dabo.

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I don't see anyone arguing to keep Smith.


Apr 29, 2019, 12:26 PM

I believe he should be fired, and I think he will be.

Wanting to fire Brownell based on wins and losses is certainly your prerogative, but to call for his firing based on this situation is ludicrous. We don't know if he knew anything about this, but thus far it appears that he did not.

2024 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


No way. Defending brownell and the b-ball program. Shocker


Apr 26, 2019, 5:20 PM

How is this dude’s pulse still at 100%?

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I avoid emulating you and your 89% pulse. That's how.***


Apr 29, 2019, 12:32 PM



2024 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: Basketball assistant says something suspect and the whole staff should be fired.


Apr 26, 2019, 5:26 PM

So always stand by coaches, never have coaching changes, or not true Clemson fans. Do you understand how ridiculous this is?

I get you are trying to make a point about consistency, but then you set the bar for consistency at "always standing by our coaches"............sorry I can't do that. I will consistently have expectations and actually be inconsistent in that my bar is LOWER for basketball than football.

We give basketball more leeway before we call for a head. So really, our fan base is inconsistent but in the exact opposite way than you think.

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Re: Basketball assistant says something suspect and the whole staff should be fired.


Apr 26, 2019, 5:44 PM

Judge, I’ve supported you and your endeavors to keep fans behind our Basketball team and coaches/staff.

You’re dead wrong on this one, in every way possible.

If you’re disappointed, it’s definitely not the fans you need to direct it towards. Steve Smith messed up, and embarrassed our entire Athletics Department.

Time to own it on this one and stop trying to play defense.

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Re: Basketball assistant says something suspect and the whole staff should be fired.


Apr 29, 2019, 1:16 PM

I agree with the topic you posted!

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Re: Basketball assistant says something suspect and the whole staff should be fired.


Apr 29, 2019, 1:36 PM

The biggest difference here are the results on the field/court. Even if it were found that an assistant football coach was giving illegal substances to players then I think most would want that assistant fired and not call for Dabo's head as long as there was nothing to point towards Dabo having knowledge of what was going on. This is because Dabo has gotten results in terms of wins and championships.

Brownell hasn't been winning, and many wanted him gone before any of this, and many more were at least in the "give him 1 more year" category. I don't think many are saying the entire staff should be fired just because of this, but because it's just another negative mark on the program on top of not winning enough in the first place.

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