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CU Guru [1026]
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The Refs got the pylon call right
Sep 10, 2018, 1:25 PM
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Here is a graphic and pictures of why. The TAM receiver lost control of the ball about the three yard line and lost contact about the two. At that point the the receiver and the ball was at least a half yard away from the sideline.
The ball landed about 7 yards beyond the goal line and about 1 and half yards out of bounds.
The best view is actually the camera that was showing live action.
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Legend [15212]
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I'm an extremely biased Clemson fan, and I think for sure
Sep 10, 2018, 1:32 PM
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they made the correct call.
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Standout [347]
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Re: The Refs got the pylon call right
Sep 10, 2018, 1:35 PM
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Ref in back of end zone made the call, I do believe?
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Freshman [-51]
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Re: The Refs got the pylon call right
Sep 10, 2018, 1:40 PM
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The pylon camera shot showed it was the correct call.
Jimbo's muted tone in the post-game presser probably indicated that he had been told that as well.
He said he thought the call should have come from upstairs originally. The call would have been the same.
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CU Guru [1026]
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Re: The Refs got the pylon call right
Sep 10, 2018, 1:51 PM
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Here is a graphic and pictures of why. The TAM receiver lost control of the ball about the three yard line and lost contact about the two. At that point the the receiver and the ball was at least a half yard away from the sideline.
The ball landed about 7 yards beyond the goal line and about 1 and half yards out of bounds.
The best view is actually the camera that was showing live action.
(
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CU Guru [1026]
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Re: The Refs got the pylon call right
Sep 10, 2018, 1:55 PM
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I finally got the attachments posted. Did not work with iPhone. Give me points for perservering.
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CU Guru [1653]
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Starter [377]
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Re: The Refs got the pylon call right
Sep 10, 2018, 2:26 PM
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while it's moot, the pylon cam shows a different trajectory ....
Wouldn’t hang my hat on that. Pylon cam is a wide angle lens so very distorted perspective
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CU Guru [1653]
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Re: The Refs got the pylon call right
Sep 10, 2018, 3:40 PM
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geometry is geometry, ie physics... wide angle or not...
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110%er [5282]
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Re: The Refs got the pylon call right
Sep 10, 2018, 3:51 PM
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pylon cam shows the trajectory directly over top of it from the inside. Ball was still about 2 feet inside the pylon at the 1 1/2 (look below, not K'Von's right foot is sitting inches behind the 2 yard line, bodies stretched, ball would at least be at the 1 1/2 in this shot). The trajectory it'd take for Texas A&M's assumption of going out at the 1 yard line would be directly sideways, which is not what it does at all in the pylon cam.
https://twitter.com/PylonCamQuigs/status/1038614202796187648
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Freshman [3]
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Re: The Refs got the pylon call right
Sep 10, 2018, 5:10 PM
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Well as long as we want to talk physics let's get to it. As one of the other Clemson Fans noted previously, I wouldn't put too much into the pylon cam due to the nature of the lens. For a quick observation you will see the goal line in this shot about 45 degrees from the sideline. You will also notice that the offensive player's foot is behind the 3, and to get the true distance from where your defender's foot is, it is between the 2 and the 3. But more importantly, the offensive player's foot is about 1 1/2-2 feet from the sideline, his body is wider than his feet, the ball was in his outside hand and most importantly was hit from the field out of bounds. So if you take the concept of parallax vision, you can then get a better idea of whats going on, the cam loses site of the ball before the ball crosses the 2 yard line as the ball is heading out of bounds, long after the ball has passed, the players hit the pylon, for the ball to have been inside the pylon at the goal line the players must have been as well, but both players were in fact outside of the pylon when they hit it. There is no physical way the ball could have been further inside the field than the inside shoulders of the players unless it was traveling into the field of play, and since the ball flew out of the field, it never was traveling into the field of play. The cam does completely get it right, the ball was out of bounds.
But it still doesn't matter, the Clemson D stopped the two point attempt, you won't hear this Aggie saying that Clemson didn't deserve the final outcome of this paticular game. ..
pylon cam shows the trajectory directly over top of it from the inside. Ball was still about 2 feet inside the pylon at the 1 1/2 (look below, not K'Von's right foot is sitting inches behind the 2 yard line, bodies stretched, ball would at least be at the 1 1/2 in this shot). The trajectory it'd take for Texas A&M's assumption of going out at the 1 yard line would be directly sideways, which is not what it does at all in the pylon cam. https://twitter.com/PylonCamQuigs/status/1038614202796187648
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110%er [5282]
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Re: The Refs got the pylon call right
Sep 10, 2018, 6:13 PM
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1. The wide angle lense doesnt distort where that ball is compared to the white line that's obviously 1.5-2 feet to the right of the ball. It's at the 1 1/2 yd line in that shot... It's about the same spot this shot was taken, and it's pretty clear with the ball in the 1 yd line area here, it still looks to be sitting in bounds, heading to go directly over the pylon which looks further back than the ball does.
2. KVon foot comes down on the two (seen above), that first shot is just before it sets down.
3. https://mobile.twitter.com/chris_hummer/status/1038613422684942336/video/1
That video even makes it look like it crossed dead over the top of the pylon... It's slightly left looking in that shot, definitely not to the right, which is where it would have been if going out at the 1.
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CU Guru [1026]
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Best photo for proof
Sep 10, 2018, 8:48 PM
[ in reply to Re: The Refs got the pylon call right ] |
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I think that this photo is the best evidence to show that the football was inside or over the pylon. If you extend the pylon upward, the football is still to the right of it.
The pylon camera is of no use because the ball is to too high to be seen.
I think that A&M had the pylon placed incorrectly. The pylon is on the out of bound chalk. The pylon is supposed to be in bounds. The outside of the pylon should just touch the out of bound chalk. ALL IN.
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All-TigerNet [10343]
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Re: The Refs got the pylon call right
Sep 10, 2018, 6:56 PM
[ in reply to Re: The Refs got the pylon call right ] |
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The ball is distoreted as well but it still goes directly over the pylon. The right call was made.
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Starter [377]
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Re: The Refs got the pylon call right***
Sep 10, 2018, 2:15 PM
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Starter [377]
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Re: The Refs got the pylon call right
Sep 10, 2018, 2:21 PM
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Agree with your assessment and your geometry. The side judge trailing the play was right on the boundary with a clear view of the play. He spots the ball on a punt that goes OB for instance. Same principle but an easier call to make I think. Simply, from his angle, if the ball goes to the right of the pylon (or straight over the top) it’s a TB; if to the left then a fumble.
As I recall it didn’t take them long to decide
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CU Guru [1026]
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Re: The Refs got the pylon call right
Sep 10, 2018, 2:46 PM
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For about 27 feet, it is hard to imagine that there was much curve on the ball. The football looked to be flat and spinning sideways as it crossed.
Is the pylon camera in the pylon? I know that the pylon got knocked over.
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CU Guru [1653]
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Re: The Refs got the pylon call right
Sep 10, 2018, 3:47 PM
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yes the pylon cam is in the pylon... you can't see the ball after about the 1 or 2 yard line. Here are the few frames the ball is in... you can decide for yourself if you think the ball crossed the pylon to the right of the stripe prior to the pylon. FWIW the pylon is positioned at the corner of the goal line and the side line and is considered in bounds (if the ball touches the pylon it is a touchdown).
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Freshman [3]
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Re: The Refs got the pylon call right
Sep 10, 2018, 3:54 PM
[ in reply to Re: The Refs got the pylon call right ] |
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I agree, and the side ref called it out at the 1, the Head referee came over and they all got together and changed the call on the field, every fumble must be reviewed. Once the call was made as a touch back, the review had to have irrefutable evidence to reverse the call on the field. Let's consider this, if the call on the field had been made that the ball went out at the 1, would any video that was available been enough to reverse that call? The answer is no. It's a dumb rule and should be eliminated. But we all are subject to it. It's Football, sometimes it bounces your way sometimes it doesn't. While the logical consideration is that had A&M had the ball first and goal at the 1, the worst case scenario is they come away with a FG. If A&M is within 4 points at that time with 2 TOs remaining, I'm betting Dabo gets more aggressive in his play calling on the last drive and all they need is 1 first down. So we can argue for ever about the infamous pylon call, but the bottom line is A&M got the ball back and scored quickly and had the chance to tie and Clemson defended it well.
Congrats and Gig'em
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110%er [6157]
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Orange Blooded [2218]
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Re: The Refs got the pylon call right
Sep 10, 2018, 3:52 PM
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In my opinion, whether they got the call right or wrong doesn’t matter. A&M still got the ball back and scored, they just failed to convert the 2 point conversion.
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CU Guru [1653]
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Re: The Refs got the pylon call right
Sep 10, 2018, 4:05 PM
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no argument there.... just a friendly forensic debate .... should never have come down to the refs, we made some bad plays, "questionable" coaching decisions, guys left uncovered (lots of them)... and a worn out defense... they sucked it up when they needed to and got the stop on the 2 pt conversion... would not have wanted to go to OT with the mo almost entirely shifted to A&M...
Score 28-20 with 14:57 last 3 Clemson possesions of the game:
Drive 6 plays - punt (14:07 - 11:58) 2 minute drive
Drive 5 plays - punt (5:50 - 4:03) 1 minute drive
Drive 4 plays - punt (2:09 - 1:12) 1 minute drive
D was on the field the rest of the time....
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Commissioner [970]
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Re: The Refs got the pylon call right
Sep 10, 2018, 8:50 PM
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I must have been watching a different game that you did. I thought i saw us recover an onside kick with 46 seconds left and our O run out the clock.
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Recruit [82]
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Re: The Refs got the pylon call right
Sep 10, 2018, 6:52 PM
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To anyone who is even considering that this play was called incorrectly, think about this...in order for your assessment to be true, the ENTIRE BALL, must be outside of the ENTIRE PYLON. In other words, if a hair on the leather of the ball passed over the top of the last corner stitch of the pylon, the ball is in the end zone. Touchback. Yes, the viewing angles are poor, but there is no way in 100 he77s, you can say that no part of the ball passed over any part of the pylon.
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