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All-In [42119]
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That "Plantation" thing
Mar 4, 2021, 7:56 AM
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I live in a neighborhood that employs the word "Plantation" in its name (which, in Charleston, is what... all of them?). Recently, the debate flared up on the neighborhood Facebook group about changing the name of the community because Plantation was too "slave-y", as one person put it.
I know that this summer, a lot of sacred racially-charged cows got slaughtered, and rightfully so. Cheap ### Confederate statues that were tossed up in the 1930s to send a message of oppression to blacks asking for more rights? Yep, tear those sumbitches down.
But like anything that can get extreme, that crowd overshot their target and their message. When Mrs. Butterworth gets axed because she's somehow racist, maybe it's time for pause. She's just animated talking syrup.
I don't think anyone planned a neighborhood down here with the word "Plantation" in it and thought, "Yo, let's do this so we can celebrate the old slaveholder days". I doubt someone looks at a house in that hood and says, "Well, I'd buy it, but it just makes me think I'll some poor fellas out there picking cotton." Or, well, if they do, why are you going to move there?
Even altruistic causes can go too far when extremism gets mixed it. And no, that's not just a "liberal" thing, you foaming-at-the-mouth Trumpers. Y'all would be out there smashing Dixie Chicks CDs in 2003 or calling for people to be tried for sedition if they opposed the Iraq War (shout out to old school P&R).
I dunno. Maybe I'm off here. Just seems like a neighborhood name to me.
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All-In [26968]
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I kinda take the opposite view on all this stuff...
Mar 4, 2021, 7:58 AM
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Like, why should I care enough to be upset if they change the name of the neighborhood, or the syrup, or the potato toy? If changing it will make somebody feel better, why not?
I feel like if I got upset about so-called "PC" changing of names, then I'm just doing the same thing they are doing...making a big deal out of something unimportant.
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All-In [42119]
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I hear ya.
Mar 4, 2021, 8:04 AM
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If they did change the name of our hood because of it, I would ultimately just say "meh".
I think there is some sound argument, though, that if you give in to something too ridiculous to make people happy, be ready for something even more absurd.
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All-In [26968]
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Slippery slope...maybe.
Mar 4, 2021, 8:11 AM
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I take the stance of...if and when it "slips" to something important, then I'll start caring.
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110%er [9653]
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Statues of Washington and Lincoln - would you care then?
Mar 4, 2021, 8:55 AM
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Or if all statues are torn down - are you still fine?
(I know this sounds sarcastic - it's not - I'm curious where your line is drawn)
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All-In [26968]
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I do not agree with taking down statues of
Mar 4, 2021, 8:57 AM
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Washington and Lincoln, because I personally feel they are deserving of that honor.
Statues are a case-by-case thing. If it's a local thing, though, as opposed to like federal property, then I don't have much argument if the people in that location want to remove it. It's their statue.
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All-In [42119]
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Re: Statues of Washington and Lincoln - would you care then?
Mar 4, 2021, 9:06 AM
[ in reply to Statues of Washington and Lincoln - would you care then? ] |
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I, for one, can't ever understand the reason why Lincoln should come down. But let's look at Washington.
The way I see those is that if a person had an astounding and crucial role in creating the nation, business, etc., his name deserves to be on it. We can argue Washington's character all we want, but we can't deny that America wouldn't exist if not for him. Thus, his name should remain.
You can't make those arguments for a Gen. Lee or Jefferson Davis. Also, many of those statues for them were put up with underlying sinister intentions.
I think that brings us back to the Tillman Hall debate, too, and one that I've always had a hard time choosing a side. We can't deny that Clemson very well may not have survived without him--yet he was an absolute piece of garbage as a person.
So what do we do?
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: Statues of Washington and Lincoln - would you care then?
Mar 4, 2021, 9:34 AM
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I brought this up last week, in response to some more current person being called out about some incident in their past, but I think it applies here, as well.
I don't know why we cannot come to grips with the fact that nobody is perfect. People who have repulsive views on one issue might be a champion of another one. Let's not cover up historic (or contemporary) people's shortcomings, but let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater. There has to be some middle ground that we can find.
Indeed, if we closely examine ANYONE"S whole life, I think we would find that we ALL have things in our lives of which we are not proud. Blind worship of any "hero" is not a wise thing to do, but neither is some absolutely rigid judgement.
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: I kinda take the opposite view on all this stuff...
Mar 4, 2021, 9:25 AM
[ in reply to I kinda take the opposite view on all this stuff... ] |
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Yeah, there are a lot of things that just are not that important. And if changing them helps make other people feel better, or helps us leave some of our troubled past behind, then what is the harm.
When I was a much younger man, I had very long hair. And my point to all of those people who got onto me about it was that the length of my hair shouldn't matter. I should be judged on what I DO.
Well, many years later, after I went back to college, I was preparing to start my career in education, I realize that my long hair would be an obstacle, especially for a first year teacher, so I cut it. My friends were shocked and asked why I did it and did it bother me to do it.
I had to say that if the length of my hair shouldn't matter, then it couldn't matter to me either. Long or short, I was the same person. It could have been a big deal to me but it wasn't. Teaching kids was far more important to me.
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All-In [26968]
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Paul said if eating meat offended his brother...
Mar 4, 2021, 9:29 AM
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then he'd stop eating meat, even though there's nothing necessarily wrong with eating meat.
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: Paul said if eating meat offended his brother...
Mar 4, 2021, 2:04 PM
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There may be some things I would not do just to make my brothers and sisters more comfortable, but changing the names of things is NOT one of them.
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All-In [40344]
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You are spot on
Mar 4, 2021, 8:22 AM
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Brickyard
Belle Hall
Hobcaw Creek
It’s just names
Id be really curious to see if those stirring the pot are beenyas or comeyas
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Oculus Spirit [78865]
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well it depends
Mar 4, 2021, 8:26 AM
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do you have any Obeds living in your neighborhood?
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Heisman Winner [137838]
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I live on an actual plantation, and didn't really consider
Mar 4, 2021, 8:26 AM
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that word being targeted in the Cancel Culture War, but it makes sense. Dunno. Curious to see what happens. Boone Hall is probably the most commonly known plantation in the Charleston area--would be weird if they changed it's name. I've always chuckled about people claiming tearing down statues (built less than 100 years ago for the specific purpose of terrorizing black people) is erasing history. Don't worry, those stupid racists those people idolize will always be in history books. They just won't be in the town square anymore.
That said...removing the word "plantation" from an historic piece of land wouldn't change existing or printed history books and records, but it would for anything produced going forward, which means you'd actually be creeping toward erasing history. And would probably actually achieve it at some point far in the future. Is it a big deal? Worth getting upset over? I dunno.
Places that weren't actually plantations, like an apartment complex just using the word? Meh. Who cares.
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All-In [40344]
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A good friend of mine works there
Mar 4, 2021, 8:52 AM
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It’s not changing anytime soon
Now that Willy passed away, the chances increased about .0001 %
BHP teaches history and are trying to educate people
The Cotton Dock there was never even used for moving cotton. If I remember correctly my girl told me it was built in the 90’s 1990’s, not 1890’s
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: I live on an actual plantation, and didn't really consider
Mar 4, 2021, 9:48 AM
[ in reply to I live on an actual plantation, and didn't really consider ] |
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two points:
1. I wish we could get away from this term cancel culture - or at least use it more accurately.
From the OP, I got the feeling that this was a group of people in the neighborhood discussing this. That doesn't seem like being cancelled to me.
The recent Dr. Suess brouhaha is a similar incident. Now I do NOT get what the controversy is about, but I haven't look at the books in question yet. However, this stopping of the publication of these 6 books was done deliberately done by the Dr. Suess people after asking for a review by experts in the field. Nobody is cancelling out someone else. I still may not agree with it, but it is not cancel culture.
2. Perhaps instead of considering some of these moves canceling history, we might look at it as de-emphasizing certain aspects of history. I admit that this might be walking a fine line and that different people will have different perspectives.
I wonder what harm would be incurred if Boone Hall stopped depicting what slavery was like and having tours. Could they not repurpose those beautiful old buildings for something that was not so odious and offensive to our black brothers and sisters ??
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All-In [26968]
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It's "cancel culture" when something we like
Mar 4, 2021, 10:02 AM
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is affected, but it's "free speech" if something we don't like is affected.
That's my observation.
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All-In [40344]
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There are weddings, festivals, a working farm
Mar 4, 2021, 4:03 PM
[ in reply to Re: I live on an actual plantation, and didn't really consider ] |
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Family events for seasons with pumpkin patch and hay ride and strawberry festival
The house has great architecture
The avenue of oaks is kinda pretty
The horses wandering around to see and pet
But yeah, it should totally be burned to the ground because of what happened there 150 yrs ago. That would make way more sense than teaching about the history and learning what plantation life was like
/endrant
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All-In [40656]
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"for the specific purpose of terrorizing black people"
Mar 4, 2021, 4:12 PM
[ in reply to I live on an actual plantation, and didn't really consider ] |
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I think there were more serious contenders higher up on the list that terrorized black people in the early 1900's. Highly doubt they were all too terrified of a statue that is made of stone and metal.
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Oculus Spirit [97697]
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Oculus Spirit [78865]
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short for racoons
Mar 4, 2021, 8:41 AM
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unless you are racist of course
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All-TigerNet [10855]
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Re: That "Plantation" thing
Mar 4, 2021, 8:37 AM
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Suddenly relieved that I live "Northern Wood" subdivision and not "Southern Wood" subdivision.
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All-TigerNet [12576]
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Re: That "Plantation" thing
Mar 4, 2021, 8:44 AM
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I think the time has come to replace the oppressive English language entirely with symbols much like Prince showed us. We all can nod, shake our heads and grunt. Maybe then everyone will feel better about themselves.
The silly fools behind this renaming of everything busy themselves with things that are of much lesser import than actually looking into what society can do to improve lives.
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All-In [42119]
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Cutting words from the language?! Switching to Newspeak?!
Mar 4, 2021, 8:47 AM
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There, CUintulsa®. That's how you reference 1984.
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Heisman Winner [111488]
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Re: That "Plantation" thing
Mar 4, 2021, 8:55 AM
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My Dad'sfamily owned a big one in Chester, they had black people working against their will. I bet my ancestors whipped some of them too. My great great great great great grandfather probably boogered one, which is why my sister's skin is so dark and the rest of us resemble our Scottish ancestry.
anyway, here is the Irnony, I just got done working on a proposal for a 300 lot planned low income housing community there called, you guessed it, Brainerd Plantation. They just sent us the branding graphics yesterday, hopefully, they come to their senses, because it is literally low-income housing. The word Plantation hardly comes to mind when you see a bunch of modular homes with a huge set of power lines cutting right through the middle of the property.
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Hall of Famer [24015]
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Re: That "Plantation" thing
Mar 4, 2021, 9:39 AM
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Charleston - what a cool little city that used to be.
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All-In [42119]
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Charleston folk looking at the rest of y'all
Mar 4, 2021, 9:53 AM
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Hall of Famer [24015]
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Re: Charleston folk looking at the rest of y'all
Mar 4, 2021, 10:06 AM
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That guy definitely represents the new Charlestonian. I don't live in SC, but it's not even the coolest city SC now.
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All-In [42119]
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That's 100 percent fake news...
Mar 4, 2021, 10:12 AM
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Don't you dare say Myrtle Beach...
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Hall of Famer [24015]
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Re: That's 100 percent fake news...
Mar 4, 2021, 10:13 AM
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You're silly
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Hall of Famer [24015]
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All-In [40344]
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Eh, can’t even get good BBQ in Mt P
Mar 4, 2021, 4:06 PM
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And if every new person gets their way we will be full of authentic NY pizza and bagels, Jersey Italian food and the best Chinese food known to man. I mean our Chinatown and Little Italy are up and coming
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All-In [31429]
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All-TigerNet [10875]
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LOL, so where you draw your line is reasonable, but where
Mar 4, 2021, 10:25 AM
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others do they are bigots. Got it.
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All-In [42119]
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"LOL I can't read".
Mar 4, 2021, 10:31 AM
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Nowhere did I say that.
But if you celebrate keeping up Confederate statues that were tossed up in the 1930s with the sole purpose of intimidating blacks who were pushing for more equality, then yes, you're a bigot. Are you?
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All-TigerNet [13091]
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Re: "LOL I can't read".
Mar 4, 2021, 4:21 PM
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I've never been oppressed by a statue or name of a building. But, hey, I'm stronger than most.
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All-In [47722]
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Skip that "Plantation" thing. The ones I hate are when they
Mar 4, 2021, 5:38 PM
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are called the "something" at something.
The Preserve at Scorch Bonnet
The Enclave at Hammet's Farm
etc...
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