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Associate AD [810]
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Reading some Florida boards about Winston case
Nov 26, 2013, 4:34 PM
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Some posters who present themselves are confirming what I originally thought.....you don't need evidence to charge someone with rape, you just need an accuser. There is proof they had sex and Winston even says they had sex, but the accuser is saying it was not consensual.
By not charging Winston with rape, the cops are telling the accuser that they think the sex was consensual....but they don't know if it was consensual, they weren't in the room and they certainly don't know what the girl was thinking at the time.
"But Winston's attorney has witness affidavits that support his story" you say. OK, these affidavits are from his TEAMMATES which is only slightly better than having an affidavit from say his mom. Why doesn't the attorney for Winston have an affidavit from some other female who knows the accuser and believes she is lying? How vague are these affidavits anyway? The attorney only said the affidavits support Winston's version of events correct? Why does this mean? Were these guys watching them have sex or is the affidavit more vague and says they saw the two talking and walk off together and Winston seemed normal when he returned?
The accuser has said she didn't know Winston prior to the night in question, which makes the estimate of his height on the police report make sense. Whether she knew him prior would be rather easy to verify (interviews with her friends, texts on her phone, etc.). Surely her attorney would have verified the "non-relationship" as much as possible before continuing to assert the client didn't know Winston......they have a much weaker case if the girl is lying about that from the outset. So we must presume the girl didn't know Winston.
If the girl didn't know Winston, if all the defense attorney has is Winston's statement and some affidavits from his friends, if there are photos of injuries as noted in the redacted police report, if the girl wants to continue to press charges.....aren't all these factors the typical items that make up a rape indictment?
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Associate AD [810]
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Meant to say "posters who present themselves as attorneys"
Nov 26, 2013, 4:36 PM
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Nm
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All-TigerNet [14921]
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Ummmm a Victim's accusation is evidence...
Nov 26, 2013, 4:37 PM
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All you need to arrest someone is probable cause.
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Oculus Spirit [93604]
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DNA and photos of injuries is more than enough to indict.
Nov 26, 2013, 4:42 PM
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He's getting charged it's just a matter of time.
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Associate AD [810]
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Re: DNA and photos of injuries is more than enough to indict.
Nov 26, 2013, 5:39 PM
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> He's getting charged it's just a matter of time.
This is how it seems to me as well.
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Associate AD [810]
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Re: Ummmm a Victim's accusation is evidence...
Nov 26, 2013, 5:27 PM
[ in reply to Ummmm a Victim's accusation is evidence... ] |
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> All you need to arrest someone is probable cause.
Ummmmmm.....that's my point.
A rape is one of those crimes where the accused almost has to "prove his innocence", so it is curious that Winston has yet to be charged.
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Orange Blooded [4787]
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that can be good and bad. it does go both ways. if he
Nov 26, 2013, 5:45 PM
[ in reply to Ummmm a Victim's accusation is evidence... ] |
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has forced himself on her, then throw the book at him. if she is looking for popularity and prestige, and now $$$$ from having been with the star qb, pitcher,outfielder, etc. who WILL be a pro at some sport, then throw the book at HER!
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CU Guru [1243]
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Folks on the Florida board- including those calling
Nov 26, 2013, 4:40 PM
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themselves attorneys might not be the most unbiased posters around.
Not saying they are wrong though- just very questionable sources.
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110%er [6208]
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I don't think the evidence is there...
Nov 26, 2013, 4:43 PM
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They've had a rape kit now for almost a year. I don't believe they'll press charges.
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Orange Blooded [2006]
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Re: I don't think the evidence is there...
Nov 26, 2013, 4:44 PM
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if she wants to press the issue she can. but FSU has hush money.. sad but true..
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CU Medallion [64517]
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I read a story the other day that said....
Nov 26, 2013, 4:46 PM
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the attorney for Winston apparently has photos of Winston with the woman in question that were taken before and after the alleged incident took place.
If this all boils down to a "he said she said" type incident, it is unlikely IMO the prosecutor will charge or attempt to prosecute Winston.
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Aficionado [158]
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Re: I read a story the other day that said....
Nov 26, 2013, 5:16 PM
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normally, in a "he said she said", when you can provide some of her facts are true, and disprove her claim, you've got to let the jury decide, which means he gets charged.
honestly, i don't have a dog in the fight because FSU has already beaten Clemson, but I haven't seen a credible reason for her to lie and take this on, which ain't going to be fun... especially when the defense digs in her past to see how quick she gave up the candy with past boyfriends. and she was a FSU student until a week or so, so she's probably a 'Noles fan, athough she may not be pulling for Jameis to win the Heisman.
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Associate AD [810]
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Re: I read a story the other day that said....
Nov 26, 2013, 5:36 PM
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> normally, in a "he said she said", when you can
> provide some of her facts are true, and disprove her
> claim, you've got to let the jury decide, which means
> he gets charged.
>
This is the essentially the situation as I understand it.....the fact is they had sex, so is the DA the one to decide whether it was consensual, or a jury?
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Orange Blooded [2253]
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Florida boards just may be a little biased !! *****
Nov 26, 2013, 6:11 PM
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CU Medallion [67659]
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Re: Reading some Florida boards about Winston case
Nov 26, 2013, 6:17 PM
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the attorney who can charge is an FSU grad. He is taking his time. I suspect he wont do anything till after the Heisman ballots are in. I put nothing past them
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Varsity [248]
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Re: Reading some Florida boards about Winston case
Nov 26, 2013, 6:58 PM
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Just left a meeting today in Tampa. FSU grad who is a politician was at meeting with me. His wife is a judge in Tally. Said the only thing James is guilty of is misleading the girl in thinking she was his girlfriend. Thats what started it.Said they did have consensual sex, said that there were in fact pics of them as a couple for months before the incident..and since! Said witnesses would back Jameis...and most importantly said prosecutor re-interviewed her just days ago and it did not go well. Many inconsistencies in her story. Said that his bet is Prosecutor dragging it out to make it look like they are seriously considering it but bet that there would be no charges maybe as early as next week. Said Jameis is "our Tahj Boyd"..."great kid, great student,great citizen" Also said likely some heads may roll at TPD as there has been evidence that they did a poor job during the investigation. I trust this guy pretty well, he is a fan but not rabid..hosted him at the Clemson/FSU game this year for his first visit to Tigertown. Told everyone in the meeting that the Esso was now his favorite place on earth!! lol
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Starter [395]
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Why would she go straight to the hospital and go through
Nov 26, 2013, 7:34 PM
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The humiliation of doing a rape kit?
Supposedly, there are also pictures of her bruised all over.
Could just be rumors.....
Hope the truth comes out.
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Associate AD [810]
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FLPaws - thanks for the post
Nov 26, 2013, 8:07 PM
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That is interesting stuff. I guess I'm a little confused as to why your comments are the first I have read that Winston and the girl knew each other prior, especially if there are pictures. A prior relationship also doesn't jibe with the fact the alleged rape took place in early December 2012 and reported the rape that night, but she was not able to identify Winston until January 2013.
Please read this article and the statements by the victim's attorney......things don't seem to jibe with what you've heard. http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2013/11/20/jameis-winston-sexual-battery-family-releases-statement/3651881/
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Varsity [248]
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Re: FLPaws - thanks for the post
Nov 26, 2013, 9:47 PM
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I think there has been a lot of misinformation and once the attorneys are involved a lot of posturing. Tallahassee is a lot like Clemson, if we had a football player who sexually assaulted a girl in town it would be known even if it were never brought to light. My source says they hear everything about FB players in town and no one had any inkling of this story or that it was going to be of this proportion. I have a 5 yr old grand daughter...trust me the idea that these things happen to young girls puts a knot in my stomach. But I also once coached a player who had consensual sex with a girl and when the fiance and family found out about it there was a rape charge. The kid was 2 days away from prison when his attorney finally got a moment alone with her and she admitted to fabricating the story. That also puts a knot in my stomach. Not to sound prudish (i'm not) but 20 year olds (yes, i was one once) have no idea about the ramifications of consensual casual sex. Wish this type of thing would deter our culture of promiscuity, but it wont.
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Orange Blooded [2519]
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A promiscuous culture and stiff laws against rape are
Nov 27, 2013, 10:17 AM
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incoherent. It creates a huge grey area esp since all that is needed is a woman's word.
Actual rapists should be killed, imo. But slutty girls getting to decide the fate of young dudes on a whim is destructive.
Girls caught lying about rape should have to serve the same sentence as a rapist.
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Orange Blooded [4098]
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Re: A promiscuous culture and stiff laws against rape are
Nov 27, 2013, 10:18 AM
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well put.. absolutely agree!!
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Commissioner [931]
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If
Nov 26, 2013, 8:26 PM
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It comes down to he said she said, then her credibility will be highly questioned. It sounds as though she may have been drunk with some of her comments. Tough to establish credibility for her IMHO. Whether he did it or not. Add the fact the tpd may have not followed procedure, unless their is some damning evidence I see him staying a free man.
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110%er [5513]
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If she was drunk at the time, she couldnt give consent
Nov 26, 2013, 9:50 PM
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All-American [583]
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thought I read no alcohol
Nov 27, 2013, 6:02 AM
[ in reply to If ] |
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in her system.
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Associate AD [810]
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I agree - the girl could easily be lying
Nov 27, 2013, 2:01 AM
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And your example of the player you coached is a lot like the Long Beach HS football player except he did go to prison but got the conviction thrown out after the accuser was recorded saying she lied.
But in your example and the Long Beach HS example there was a delay in the reporting of the rape. In the Winston case the girl reported the rape the night it happened......it was immediate and therefore doesn't follow the spurned girlfriend or second thoughts typical timeline of a delay in reporting the rape. And if she was a former girlfriend of Winston's, why couldn't she give the cops his name the night of the attack? Additionally, it is reported the alleged victim told cops another male friend of Winston's was in the room....if she's lying about the rape why would she put another witness in the room?
Obviously, even with all being said, the girl could be lying, it just seems the reported facts of this story don't follow the typical false rape charge scenario.
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Member [28]
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Re: Reading some Florida boards about Winston case
Nov 27, 2013, 2:54 AM
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Not sure happened but I'd she said no then it's rape now can that be proved?
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Varsity [233]
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Re: Reading some Florida boards about Winston case
Nov 27, 2013, 8:27 AM
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So you read a bunch of rumors, and then add more rumors to it.
You don't have any idea whether a single 'fact' in your last paragraph is true. And we know the injuries part is false. The report, which names no suspect (we also know that) cites a statute of assualt without force or violence.
"If the girl didn't know Winston, if all the defense attorney has is Winston's statement and some affidavits from his friends, if there are photos of injuries as noted in the redacted police report, if the girl wants to continue to press charges.....aren't all these factors the typical items that make up a rape indictment?"
I'm an attorney in Tally. I know just as much about this case as I would if I lived in Spokane. But it has consistently been rumored one of the affidavits is from her roommate. And that they did know each other, before and after. So if you want to jump to a conclusion based on rumors, it's all out there for which ever side you are predisposed to choose.
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All-In [25381]
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I think it best in matters like this to let the story unfold
Nov 27, 2013, 8:33 AM
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and reserve judgment.
The thing that has baffled me has been its timing. While I've posted previously that I tend to side with victims, thus far per reports, there is an alleged victim. There has/have been no preferral of charges, and the accused remains innocent until proven guilty.
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Associate AD [810]
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Thanks for the post Tally
Nov 27, 2013, 9:08 AM
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I don't know what rumors you are implying I'm adding. Also I said "reported facts" so anyone reading my post would know I'm referring to what has been reported and not some rumor I heard from some guy on the street, so I'm only making inferences of what may have happened based on what has been reported.
You say the police report references sex without force, but according to this c/p from news article that's not true:
"According to a heavily redacted copy of the police report, which does not identify Winston, the victim alleged a sexual assault using force between 1:30 and 2 on that Friday morning."
So again, I'm only piecing things together from what has been reported in credible newspaper sites. However, in checking again for the identity of the witnesses who signed affidavits I don't see where it is stated they are teammates of Winston so you may be correct in that one is a friend of the girl, but you said yourself that is only rumored to be the case.
I didn't intend to add rumors, so other than referring to the witnesses as teammates I'm not sure where you perceived I did. I'm not anti-FSU, it would be good for the ACC if FSU won a NC, I'm looking at what is being reported in your local paper and other national news sites and the chronology and "reported facts" do not imply a spurned girlfriend scenario.
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Varsity [233]
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Re: Thanks for the post Tally
Nov 27, 2013, 10:01 AM
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Look up the statute itself. It is clear and unredacted in the report. You repeat a rumor when you conjecture the affidavits are from two teammates. Based on what we know , what we really know, it could be out there two or three weeks from now that this kid did literally nothing wrong but cheat on his girlfriend ( and you can bail on this sport if that is the standard). When you have to put the phrase "reported facts" in quotes, you essentially admit that we know almost nothing for a fact.
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Associate AD [810]
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Re: Thanks for the post Tally
Nov 27, 2013, 10:56 AM
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Once again thanks. But you post implies we shouldn't discuss what is being reported....that's all I'm doing. If we can't do that then what is there to discuss?
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All-TigerNet [10563]
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What does this have to do with Tiger Football?
Nov 27, 2013, 10:04 AM
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Enlighten me please
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Associate AD [810]
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Re: What does this have to do with Tiger Football?
Nov 27, 2013, 10:35 AM
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Go back and look at the 2013 schedule and the last 20 years of schedules....you'll see a team on there called FSU. Look at next year's schedule....same team on there but they could have a different qb playing.
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All-TigerNet [10563]
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This isnt about football
Nov 27, 2013, 10:42 AM
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This is Court TV
Stick to football
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Associate AD [810]
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Re: This isnt about football
Nov 27, 2013, 11:07 AM
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Don't get the rudeness.....shouldn't you also stick to football then?
under11par
Posts: 1,553
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Dont think she can take Anna Watson of UGA
Posted: Nov 26, 2013 12:53 PM
But we can still look at her for one of Batson's assistants in the off season
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