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Hall of Famer [21895]
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Why defense seem so bad - my answer.
Oct 14, 2020, 10:46 AM
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I posed the question a few days ago. I have thought about it, listened to y'all, listened to coaches, and have come up with my best answer.
Disclaimer: I'm an X and O wannabe. I like to think about it, but in reality my understand of X and O football is on about the 2nd grade level compared to college coaches having a PhD.
1. Offenses are now making defenses cover the whole field - sideline to sideline and line of scrimmage to endzone. Offense are designed to "get the ball to an athlete in open space." There are still only 11 guys on the field. So, the more space any guy is responsible for defending, the harder it is.
2. Offenses have made it so much harder to "set the edge."
Let me try to explain why I think this is a microcosm of what the crux of the defensive problem is. I keep asking myself, "Why can't a DC set a defense where there is one defender on each side of the LOS who has the responsibility to set the edge (turn the play back to the inside)?" Virtually every offense is now using "reads" on offense. Whether it is the zone read, the inside zone, the outside zone, or the run-pass option the problem is still the same. The offense reads one or more players AFTER THE SNAP, in determining what to do.
It is similar to why the wishbone was so successful for a decade or so. But, eventually DCs figured out how to stop it. All of it came down to, "load the box, everyone has an assignment - fill a gap" and have more people in the box than the offense can block.
Well, I have asked myself, why can't they do the same thing with the zone read or the RPO?
The problem is if you do that you force a corner to cover a WR all over the field man-to-man with no help. (If a team has 3 WR's, 1 TE and 1RB, it takes 7 guys in the box to fill a gap and set the edge. That leaves 4 DBs covering 3 WRs.
So, I don't know the solution. The zone reads, and especially the RPO puts an awful lot of pressure on the DE, the LB and the safety. So, unless the defense has superior athletes virtually all over the field than the offense, the advantage will go to the offense. Sometime, some DC is going to figure out how to defend against the RPO. (They are doing a better job against the zone read offenses that they were just a few years ago.) But, that time hasn't yet come.
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CU Guru [1061]
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Re: Why defense seem so bad - my answer.
Oct 14, 2020, 10:54 AM
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I think our defense is actually pretty good.
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All-In [32394]
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I know he doesn't sound like one or smell like one - but he
Oct 14, 2020, 11:43 AM
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is a semihole.
He's talking about the semihole D
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Hall of Famer [21895]
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Re: Why defense seem so bad - my answer.
Oct 14, 2020, 8:38 PM
[ in reply to Re: Why defense seem so bad - my answer. ] |
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I agree. In the post I made a few days ago I talked about how good the Clemson D is. I made a comment, "Is Venables the only DC who can game plan to stop a good offense?"
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: Why defense seem so bad - my answer.
Oct 14, 2020, 10:59 AM
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Your previous thread got waaay too long to respond to so I'm glad to get in early on this one.
I like you thoughts here and I think I can sum them up in a short way.
On offense you can have 5 or 6 guys do things the right way on any given play and still have a pretty good chance for success. On defense, especially trying to defend the new spread concepts, you can hide no more than 1 guy who isn't doing his job and even sometimes that's too much.
If a lineman misses a block or RB misses a hole, it's 2nd down and at worst a loss of yards. If a defender misses an assignment it's typically a 1st down at least and often a TD for the other team.
I think defensive coaches knows exactly how to defend RPOs. Their problem becomes when their players either don't know their jobs or can't perform their jobs play after play.
A perfect example is what Clemson has been doing on 3rd and long. Defenses have played us well on early downs at times, but continuing to stay with every key over and over is proving difficult for college athletes. Clemson is finding the weak link on 3rd downs and when the defense moves the weak link, Clemson finds another one.
It's just so difficult to keep everybody on the same page on defense unless, as you said, you have studs running all over the field who can make up for mistakes.
Football is becoming more and more a game of cat and mouse where the offense tries to find different ways to exploit a mismatch and the defense tries to be multiple enough to confuse the OC so they can hide those mismatches.
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Scout Team [150]
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Re: Why defense seem so bad - my answer.
Oct 14, 2020, 11:11 AM
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See Mr. Venables. He has a pretty good answer. Ask Miami - wait check that - the entire ACC, and when needed the SEC.
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CU Guru [1944]
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Re: Why defense seem so bad - my answer.
Oct 14, 2020, 11:19 AM
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That's Your-ami and any Tiger fans "My-ami"
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CU Guru [1944]
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Re: Why defense seem so bad - my answer.
Oct 14, 2020, 11:15 AM
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Here's the deal, it all boils down to the Jimmy's and Joe's not the X's and O's. If my players are better than your players, I'll win 29 out of 30 games. Upsets happen but are rare. Now, great coaching can overcome some talent deficiencies but only so much. We have seen bad coaching deter great talent (ie UGA) from winning crucial games. I'm not a coach but if you gave me all 5 and highly ranked 4 star players, I could beat any coach you name, that has all low 4 and mostly 3 star players.
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CU Guru [1944]
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Re: Why defense seem so bad - my answer.
Oct 14, 2020, 11:17 AM
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Hold on, TigerNet has promoted me to an asst coach, so scratch part of what I just said about not being a coach.
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Scout Team [150]
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Re: Why defense seem so bad - my answer.
Oct 14, 2020, 11:49 AM
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Well, I am pretty sure that Venables has been in the top 10 in defense most years and has not always had the 5 stars he has now. The defensive improvement made when he walked on campus was DRASTIC. So I completely disagree with that statement. I think its likely true 80% of the time - but the other 20% of the time its the coaches that earn their money (see Dabo and Venables). Them being a team's coach makes not just the team but the individual players better, no question.
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: Why defense seem so bad - my answer.
Oct 14, 2020, 11:24 AM
[ in reply to Re: Why defense seem so bad - my answer. ] |
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Texas, Oklahoma, LSU and Bama would like a word with you on 4 & 5 star players being all it takes to make a good defense.
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CU Medallion [55542]
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I dunno, BUT I did have this thought recently:
Oct 14, 2020, 11:17 AM
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If a team dared to go to a traditional I-formation or wishbone or veer, etc. running game these days, they would tear it up, at least for a little while.
Of course one has to recruit for that type of scheme, but HUGE OLs, a punishing fullback, and an elite tailback would crush many of today's defenses.
I just had the "I wish we would...' thought of having some kind of second blocking running back in the backfield for our elite RBs.
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CU Guru [1944]
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Re: I dunno, BUT I did have this thought recently:
Oct 14, 2020, 11:21 AM
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Would be fun to watch especially vs these soft defenses like a Syracuse, fill in the blank, the list is endless.
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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CU Medallion [51445]
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Legend [16351]
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We're going to RUN the ball...........
Oct 14, 2020, 8:51 PM
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Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight!
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CU Medallion [67130]
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Re: Why defense seem so bad - my answer.
Oct 14, 2020, 11:28 AM
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Last weekend the LSU and VT D's gave all of the D's a bad name. Ours was exceptional however
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: Why defense seem so bad - my answer.
Oct 14, 2020, 11:31 AM
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Don't forget other embarassing (maybe slightly less so) performances on defense by Bama, Ole Miss, Mizzou, Tennessee, Louisville, and possibly a few others.
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Standout [332]
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Re: Why defense seem so bad - my answer.
Oct 14, 2020, 11:50 AM
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Did you not watch the Miami game, coach? Our defense was lights out.
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Hall of Famer [21895]
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Re: Why defense seem so bad - my answer.
Oct 14, 2020, 8:44 PM
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Thanks to all the replies. Point of clarification. Last week I made a post asking why so many good teams seem to be struggling on defense. I asked for input. I got some very good input that led me to make the post in this thread. I mentioned Bama, LSU, and Florida as teams that were generally thought of as very good or even elite that were struggling on Defense. I made the comment that it seemed like Venables was the only good DC in the country (or words to that effect).
I was in no way lumping Clemson into the group of struggling defenses. On the contrary, they are the exception.
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