Replies: 29
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Commissioner [907]
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Question about the vaccines
Nov 23, 2020, 11:34 AM
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It has been touted a lot of times in the media that you can get the Covid more than once. That it can re-infect you after you've had it.
If that is true, and I think it most likely is not true, Why would anyone take a vaccine for this virus if it can re-infect you later?
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Heisman Winner [105418]
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"If that is true, and I think it most likely is not true"
Nov 23, 2020, 11:44 AM
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Why is that?
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Commissioner [907]
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Re: "If that is true, and I think it most likely is not true"
Nov 23, 2020, 11:48 AM
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because your bodies' immune response does not go away after it has once developed a defense against an intruding pathogen.
Immunity to viruses creates antibodies to the infectious agent. Which you carry for a lifetime. (i.e. polio vax, measles, small pox etc.)
Why would those antibodies be gone to allow infection again?
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Oculus Spirit [75671]
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Why are you in here looking for reasons to not take
Nov 23, 2020, 11:48 AM
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a vaccine?
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Commissioner [907]
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Re: Why are you in here looking for reasons to not take
Nov 23, 2020, 11:53 AM
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I will probably take a vaccine. But, it was just a question that I thought was worthy of asking.
The fear mongering about this virus is out of control. I know its deadly to alot of people. But I have my doubts about reports that say you can be re-infected if you developed antibodies against it.
That goes against the reason to create a vaccine in the first place. Don't you see the hypocrisy in the reporting?
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Oculus Spirit [75671]
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You see, you are asking questions that really out to be
Nov 23, 2020, 11:58 AM
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asked at some place with some epidemiologist.
I have seen reports of instances of people getting it again. I have not seen reports of widespread reinfection. So probably those people have terrible immune systems, the virus mutated enough to mess them up, or they just have real bad luck.
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Oculus Spirit [97648]
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Then why is the flu still around?
Nov 23, 2020, 12:40 PM
[ in reply to Re: Why are you in here looking for reasons to not take ] |
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Why are measles, mumps, and rubella still around? Why are common colds still around? Why is Ebola still around? AIDS? Polio is still around?
Most viruses that you get and recover from, and have a lasting immunity, are viruses that WILL kill you, and you get very sick with them fighting them off. AND they don't have different strains. That's why, even with vaccines, the list of viruses we've truly eradicated is VERY small. Partly because you can't vaccinate everyone. Partly because there are multiple strains of the virus. Or many other factors. Like being a non-lethal virus to many people, with asymptomatic spread, like the common cold and the flu. Depending on the vaccine, and the virus, I doubt we eliminate covid, just because it is the way it is. I have no doubt we will hit it back hard in a year, and probably return to normal. But not everyone will get a vaccine. And it can just as easily mutate. That's all the Spanish flu was in 1918. And the swine flu in 2009. New mutations/flavors of an existing virus that's been around for thousands of years infection humans.
I see hypocrisy every day I've been alive, and that was long before covid. I also see denial and lying, also been around a long time as well. Yes, there's fear mongering, and then there's denial. All perfectly normal, yet different human responses to bad news. As such, you can go hide in a basement or pretend it's all fake and ignore it, and suffer the consequences of both bad choices. Of you can study it, understand it, respect it, and figure out a solution to both deal with it as best as possible, and keep the economy from collapsing.
Is it any shocker the wealthiest nation on Earth is suffering the most from the virus? We were the most "prepared" for a pandemic according to everyone. We're actually the least prepared. Turn on a TV or log into facebooktwitter and see why.
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Commissioner [907]
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Re: Then why is the flu still around?
Nov 23, 2020, 12:47 PM
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it is true that those viruses are still around and always will be. Vaccination just keeps you from getting sick even if exposed. That's why no that has been vaccinated re-gets measles, chicken pox etc.
A vaccine isn't going to ever take Covid out of the environment. It is here to stay. If the vaccine doesn't provide lifetime immunity then you can still get Covid 20 years from now.
Vaccines don't eliminate a virus from the world. Makes me wonder what a parent that is an anti-vaxxer going to say to their grown child when they get polio like FDR did in their 40s. Especially when a vax could have prevented it.
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All-In [40656]
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Do you write all of your responses like a Qanon poem?
Nov 23, 2020, 1:00 PM
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Or just in this thread?
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Commissioner [907]
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Re: Do you write all of your responses like a Qanon poem?
Nov 23, 2020, 1:27 PM
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i just write them. Good Lord is that something you ruminate on. How I write responses? Wow
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Heisman Winner [105418]
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Well, to be honest
Nov 23, 2020, 1:29 PM
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it is weird that you seem to have problems with when to hit the return key when typing responses. It seems that you might be typing in iambic pentameter if you know your Shakespeare. Or possibly your computer/internet #### device formats things weirdly which is driving me absolutely crazy.
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Oculus Spirit [97648]
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Well
Nov 23, 2020, 2:11 PM
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.tfel ot thgir morf sesnopser sih gnitirw t'nsi eh tseal tA
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Oculus Spirit [78823]
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110%er [6397]
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Re: Question about the vaccines
Nov 23, 2020, 12:00 PM
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According to my gf who is quite knowledgeable about vaccines, antibodies, pathogens and the like, if someone is infected a second time, it can only be by a mutation of the original virus, not the original virus itself, and unlike flu viruses, covid types do not mutate easily at all.
I'll take her at her word. She's a smart cookie.
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Oculus Spirit [79110]
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Sorry, can't just take her word for it.
Nov 23, 2020, 12:58 PM
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Without pigs.
Please to be poasting them.
Also...disappernted in the rest of the jounge for letting this go an hour and other responses without someone requesting pigs. FOR SHAME
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Oculus Spirit [85054]
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Lunch break, sorry
Nov 23, 2020, 1:06 PM
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pawacoot
Soon please,
Thx
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Orange Blooded [2203]
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Re: Question about the vaccines
Nov 23, 2020, 1:24 PM
[ in reply to Re: Question about the vaccines ] |
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The original reports were the virus was not mutating very much. We all know most of the talking head really don't know. We could ask the Chinses or the WHO they might know but not give us the truth.
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Oculus Spirit [97648]
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Best guess......and only a guess......
Nov 23, 2020, 12:06 PM
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Covid, like many viruses, likely depends as much or more on initial exposure levels, as it does on your preexisting conditions. As such, your "immunity" to it will vary based on your level of exposure, and disease. If you're in good health, and have a mild exposure to it, you may have no symptoms, or very minor ones. If you're older, in bad health, or younger and have a high level of exposure initially, you get a severe disease. Now mild cases, all cases, produce SOME antibodies. But antibody levels and t cell memory often depend on how traumatic the virus was to the body when infected. If you shrugged it off easily, you produced few and weak antibodies. And probably no t cell immunity, or little. In just a few months, your body has forgotten the virus, and you're open to reinfection. Get a severe case, and your body has to fight it hard, (hospitalization for example), and your body will develop a high level of antibodies and a strong T cell response. Your body will remember the trauma, and your immunity will last much longer.
The vaccine will hopefully create a response in your body similar to a severe infection, without the virus killing you. I'd expect the side effects to be much greater with this vaccine than the flu and others. Studies of the original SARS, MERS, and even influenza have shown antibody levels dependent on severity of infection.
At this point, I'd expect the only reinfections you would see are people never admitted to the hospital the first time. If you get sick enough to need o2 and recover, you're likely going to be immune for a long period of time. Years perhaps. With the vaccine, depending, it will likely be a yearly vaccine like the flu. Likewise, reinfections will always be worse, because since your body shrugged it off so easily the first time, it will likely underestimate it when infected again, letting it get a bigger head start, and you getting much sicker the second time around.
mRNA vaccines, like the new ones, are highly customizable, and are easier to alter as the virus changes. The mRNA vaccines are a completely new vaccine technology btw. I'd be very hesitant, but then again they can be game changers for so many other viruses. They have been experimenting with them for many years now, but never have gone this far with them. A traditional vaccine is grown as the virus is grown in a medium (eggs usually), then turned into the vaccine. The mRNA technology bypasses that growing process, and is a direct DNA recreation of the virus designed to create a specific immune response (in the case of covid, the spike protein where it attaches to ACE receptors), that can be genetically altered as needed, and leaves out the step of having to grow the virus in a medium to make the vaccine. We are attacking the virus where it attaches to the receptors for it in our bodies. If the virus mutates to attach a different way, we can alter the mRNA vaccine to counteract that change specifically, and quickly. In theory. It's completely customizable, and as such can actually destroy the virus, and many others once the technology improves.
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Heisman Winner [135451]
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I'm going to perfectly candid here.
Nov 23, 2020, 12:16 PM
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I took a fair number of science classes in high school, and based on the voluminous body of knowledge I possess about science, I still can't answer your question with absolute certainly. So you can probably imagine how much credible information you're going to get from those on this board that didn't take a fair number of science classes in high school.
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Oculus Spirit [79110]
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I'm one of those who didn't take a fair volume in HS, Butt
Nov 23, 2020, 1:00 PM
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I'll say this. I have no clue on this ####. Butt if I did, I would tell you like it is and you would simply have to take my word for it, and doubt me since I'm posting this online and you can't see my credentials. Kind of like that dood above who posted about his GF being knowledgable, but then discredited himself by not posting pigs of her.
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Heisman Winner [135451]
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I can definitely tell you one thing...
Nov 23, 2020, 1:39 PM
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The alphabet. Every letter of it. I had a fair amount of Englandanese classes in grammar school, so I know what I'm talking about when I talk about it.
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110%er [6397]
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Re: I'm one of those who didn't take a fair volume in HS, Butt
Nov 23, 2020, 2:37 PM
[ in reply to I'm one of those who didn't take a fair volume in HS, Butt ] |
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Pigs of my gf have nothing to do with her expertise in the medical field. And you would just be jealous if I poasted them anyway. Imagine a hot nurse with nice bewbies. That should get you close.
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Oculus Spirit [85054]
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Hear dat Tickle?
Nov 23, 2020, 2:43 PM
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Close your eyes and imagine em. That should do the trick.
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Oculus Spirit [79110]
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K, just a min...
Nov 23, 2020, 3:30 PM
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Oculus Spirit [79110]
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All-In [40868]
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obviously they don't know yet, time will tell
Nov 23, 2020, 12:47 PM
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but they think a booster might be required at some time, but it might be like a flu vaccine where you have to take it ever year at the worst.
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Orange Blooded [2203]
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Re: obviously they don't know yet, time will tell
Nov 23, 2020, 1:31 PM
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I have only had the flu one time when I was 12 yrs old. I never took the flu shot until they came out with the quad. They would guess every year on which strand would come out and most of the time they were wrong. My question is do I still have the anti-bodies for the flu from when I was 12?
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All-In [40868]
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no, the flu virus changes too much and there are many many
Nov 23, 2020, 3:05 PM
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strands. Plus many vaccines need boosters like chicken pox/shingles. Many people will never get the flu because their immune system is good and fights it off before they get sick. The flu can be carried asymptotically just like covid.
I never got the flu shot until I got the flu onetime when I was about 40. Once was enough. I had it as a kid a couple times but would be sick for a couple days and then all was well.
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Legend [16719]
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Re: Question about the vaccines
Nov 23, 2020, 2:39 PM
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I think I saw where the reinfection rate is below 3% of those who already had it.
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Lot o points [163008]
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I have seen some stuff on re-infection, but not a lot
Nov 23, 2020, 5:20 PM
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I would guess that a re-infection is based totally on the person's own immune system or even the level of infection they had - hopefully science will help with this down the road. We do know things like Vitamin D levels, obesity, blood type, etc. can affect the infection levels.
I would be first in line to get a vaccine - if offered. And like a lot of vaccines, I would expect it necessary to get it again down the road. I have had 2 different types of shingles shots, pneumonia shot that will need to be taken again, polio that needed to be boosted, tetanus multiple times, etc.
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Replies: 29
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