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YOUR BALANCE
50 years ago -Vietnam - Social Injustice
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50 years ago -Vietnam - Social Injustice


Dec 14, 2020, 10:56 AM

In a recent post, TigerLinks mentioned fights that were racially motivated, but these were on bases - not in the field. I never saw anyone fight for any reason. When you are in the field and your life depends upon everyone working together, you form a bond that transcends all differences. The one guy from my squad who still phones me is African-American and actually named me as the one person who he would most want to get in touch with when asked by a man from our unit who was contacting as many Hill 4-11 veterans as possible.The only time race came up in my platoon was when an outspoken African-American guy in my squad challenged me as squad leader, asking why I only made the black guys walk point. Since my squad at the time consisted of 7 blacks, 1 hispanic, and 2 whites besides myself, I just said, "Look around" - who else could walk point since 2 of the non-black guys were the machine gunner and his assistant who weren't allowed to walk in front.The other squad in my platoon was almost all white and that question didn't have to be asked. My reference to social injustice was meant to reflect how the draft process affected a certain population more than others. And let's be clear, this was not a racial thing at all - it was socio-economic as every draftee I knew was from lower to middle income families. I came from a limited income rural family whose father didn't own a car until I was six years old - still remember the excitement seeing that car turn in the driveway off that old dirt road. One of the other white guys in my squad was probably the most affected by discrimination ( at least if you listened to him) - he was from a poor Jewish family from the Bronx, who described racial harassment on the streets because of his religion and the perception by others including the neighborhood blacks that all Jews were rich. He was a bitter kind of guy who kept to himself.

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Re: 50 years ago -Vietnam - Social Injustice


Dec 14, 2020, 12:03 PM

Excellent post Clover and your experience was much like mine. There was certainly a racial divide and racial element involved, but in the field it made no difference what color your skin was. Certainly economic disparities was a huge factor in the draft and with those who served.

I had 26 enlisted men in my first platoon ..... 9 African American and 17 Caucasian. I also only had 9 high school graduates out of my 26 enlisted men. That is not a typo .... NINE (9)! I was a 2nd Lieutenant and this was my first platoon in combat. Some of my white Marines came from rural backgrounds in Georgia, North Carolina, Alabama, and Mississippi. Some came from metropolitan areas in New York, Delaware, A couple of my black Marines were from the inner city .....Charlotte and Atlanta .... and a few from more rural areas on the south. I also had some white guys from the northeastern rural areas and the midwest.

As a platoon we actually got along well and pretty much left each other along when in our own compound. Any trouble that we had was when our black Marines from our battalion mixed with the black soldiers at larger floor shows and large gatherings in the large Army compound in Chu Lai. My compound in Tam Ky was 15 miles form Chu Lai, and it was a single platoon compound, my guys almost never got to go to the big shows, so mostly stayed out of trouble. The blacks mostly stayed together during the the evenings when we had finished our daily tasks, although I would not let them all bunk together in the same hootch.

The Marines were really specific as to what you could and could not wear on your body ..... bracelets, chains, etc. and at the time (1970) "Black Power" was right at the forefront and several of my black Marines made bracelets and cross necklaces out of shoe laces as a symbol of black power. I think they made the cross so that I could not say they could not wear a religious symbol, so if I remember correctly I told them it was fine as long as it was beneath their tee shirt. I can't remember whether I let them wear the bracelets or not, but remember it was a fairly constant battle reminding them what they could and could not wear.

I do not think I had more than a half a dozen Marines out of my 26 that I would have considered coming from anywhere near a middle class background ..... economically. I had Jewish kid from Miami that I thought was probably from a middle class economic group and one from New Hampshire and a couple from the midwest. During my year in country, I would say that maybe my best Marine was a young black man from Orangeburg, James Keith, and my worst was a young black man whose name I have forgotten. Just like my white Marines there were good, bad, and in between. Many of my black men used to say "this is not my war", but they were there along with many many white young men who were really in the same economic boat, and at that time in history did not have a lot of options. Many of the white kids probably thought it wasn't their war either.

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Re: 50 years ago -Vietnam - Social Injustice


Dec 14, 2020, 1:02 PM

I was too young to really follow all of this too closely except that I seem to remember the body counts being shown on the news every evening. I had really never thought about the social economics part of the draft but reading this it does make sense.

I knew one guy, who ended up marrying my cousin, who joined the National Guard to avoid the chance of being drafted and one of my neighbors was drafted and was KIA. Did not know him well as he was several years older than me. Later I worked with a couple of Vets who were over there and they never really talked about it too much.

I appreciate you guys who served and also thank you for sharing your stories with us.

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Where I grew up the National Guard


Dec 14, 2020, 6:15 PM

was in such a high demand that guys needed some sort of connection to get in. That added to the probability that those from poor families would not be able to join and be in line for the draft.

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Re: Where I grew up the National Guard


Dec 14, 2020, 6:54 PM

Clover, two of my attorney friends here in Greenville served their time as officers here in the Greenville Army Reserves. I may be a little off, but I think (will ask one of them at lunch Friday)that they said about 75% of their enlisted men were college graduates. Compare that to 67% of mine were NOT high school graduates. But you know what? I would not have traded them for any of the college graduates that thought the reserves were the better option and got in the reserves via a connection. I'm not casting aspersions an any of the reserves that served, just saying I had rather have my men. I don't blame anyone for joining the reserves and serving ...... pretty good choice!

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I never held any ill feelings


Dec 14, 2020, 7:29 PM

toward anyone who took that route- had some National Guard trainees in basic training & the drill sergeant always referred to them as the “No Guts” guys. Recent years have changed all that with frequent deployments to war zones that didn’t happen way back then.

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Re: Where I grew up the National Guard


Dec 14, 2020, 11:21 PM [ in reply to Where I grew up the National Guard ]

I think the Nat Guard in Greenville had at least a two year wait list in 1966-67. The brother of a guy who attended the same church told me he would get me in if I wanted a spot. Recall he was the second in command of the unit then, but I was close to signing the USAF enlistment papers. Didn't have the funds to transfer to Clemson. Felt there was at least a 90% chance of a stateside tour with the prospect of finishing the remaining two years of a BS degree during off duty hours. Also, the thought of sleeping under a permanent roof was quite appealing, not to mention way better food service. The stateside tour didn't work out, but was very far away from SE Asia. The AF reserves had a three year wait list according to the recruiter who I saw give the disappointing news to an inquirer.

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Re: 50 years ago -Vietnam - Social Injustice


Dec 14, 2020, 7:44 PM

My experience in Vietnam was different from yours. I was in an Aviation unit (114th Assault Helicopter Company). We had no problems with race to speak of. My crew chief was an African American. My life and his as well as the rest of the crew were very dependent on each other. His work on the aircraft was obviously very important to our whole crew. And of course, since he always rode in the back as part of my crew, he was very dependent on my piloting skills! I am sure he was aware of the racial problems in the US, but we had no problems! Now when I was in basic training at Fort Polk, we had a lot of draftees who were destined for the infantry since we were at Fort Polk. The racial problems there were obvious! Almost all Warrant Officer Flight Candidates (WOCS) like me, had to go Fort Polk for basic. We were required to have at least a high school education and a certain score on both the general test as well as the flight aptitude test. Fort Polk was eye opening for me. The draftees headed for the infantry were from a broad spectrum of the US socio-economic backgrounds, as well as a broad spectrum of education (or lack thereof!).

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Re: 50 years ago -Vietnam - Social Injustice


Dec 14, 2020, 11:41 PM

I don't know about the Army, but in the Marines the Air Wing was much different than the units I served with ..... Combat Engineers and Infantry. Most of the air wing guys were at least high school graduates and probably scored higher on the GCT test. Kind of a different "animal" than my guys. After coming home from Viet Nam I was stationed at MCAS Beaufort, so was with the Air Wing for a year.

As a ground Marine, I can tell you that I had the utmost respect for the young Army chopper pilots that had gone to flight school out of high school. Maybe the best part is that they were too young to have a lot of fear and would fly places that some of the older pilots would not fly. I was lifted off mountain tops a few times by pilots that were willing to fly when others wouldn't ....... mostly Marine pilots, but the Army guys were gooduns! Thanks!

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Re: 50 years ago -Vietnam - Social Injustice


Dec 14, 2020, 11:33 PM

Thanks for your service. Have enjoyed reading about your experiences. Everyone who served there deserves at least a 1000 times more than the benefits given by Uncle Sam. A couple years ago attended a Vietnam discussion by Joe Galloway at the local library. He had a fairly prominent role in Ken Burns Vietnam documentary and certainly had some interesting stories to relate during his time there as a correspondent.

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the only good politician is a dead politician.


Re: 50 years ago -Vietnam - Social Injustice


Dec 15, 2020, 7:37 AM

Most black peoples prefer to be called black. African-American and all other hyphenated BS is PC nonsense and identity politics from Dems and the left to intentionally divide people!

Your story reminds me of my childhood. My dad’s best friend growing up in a small town in the Lowcountry was a black kid that lived down the street. His mom was my grandparent’s housekeeper. During the summer every Saturday afternoon my grandmother gave my dad and him a bath in the backyard in a tin tub. He end up moving to Washington DC to work and during the 70s when I was a kid every summer around the Fourth of July he would come back to the lowcountry for his family‘s big annual family reunion. but the first stop he always made when he hit town was my house to see my dad.

He had a classic 70s van: Dodge Ram, airbrush graphics, bubble windows, Cragar SS rims, keep on trucking mudflaps, fuzzy dice, shag carpet covering the dashboard & floor, CB radio, 8-Track (of course) and the waterbed in the back! He had a big ### afro and was usually dressed like he had just stepped off the cover of an Earth, Wind, & Fire album! He was one cool cat!

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Thank you guys for your service.


Dec 15, 2020, 8:08 AM

My dad sat out Vietnam because he was 4F. He was born in ‘41. Tore up his knee playing football in high school.

My sister retired from the Air Force.

I have always loved military movies, war movies etc. and there is a movie you guys need to see if you haven’t already. It’s called Memorial Day.

It’s told in present day by a non-com recovering in the hospital from wounds in Iraq. He joined the Army because his grandfather was a lieutenant in Europe during WWII. His relationship with his grandfather is shown with flashbacks to the Memorial Day when he was 12 and spent the day with his grandparents. It’s a very powerful movie and as much about the love between a grandson & grandfather as much as a war/military movie.

It’s one of those movies you’ll watch more than once or even twice!

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