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YOUR BALANCE
What’s up with Offensive Line Recruiting?
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What’s up with Offensive Line Recruiting?


Dec 10, 2018, 12:46 PM

Any of you recruiting gurus worried about OL? 2020 recruiting is looking good but I still don’t understand why we can’t seem to get 4/5 star guys on the OL. Hyatt and Carmen are an exception. Is this a Robbie Caldwell issue? Seems like we consistently recruit studs in every other position group. Our OL recruiting numbers and overall quality has been slim the last two cycles and we seem to keep missing on the studs. It doesn’t make sense for a team with 4 straight CFPs to have this much trouble recruiting top level talent on OL. We haven’t had a really dominant line since the late 80s. Thoughts?

BTW... I thought the line played great this year after the move to Lawrence. KBs slow reads and delivery were part of the problems.

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Why would a top rated OL recruit want


Dec 10, 2018, 12:59 PM

to practice every day against the best defensive line in the country?!! They can go to a different school and possibly not have to ever face anybody as good as those guys!
??
Go Tigers AND Tiger Nation!

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Si vis pacem, para bellum (if you want peace, prepare for war)
USMC 1980-83
-Camp Lejeune
-Beirut, Lebanon
SC National Guard 1983-2018


It Sucks.. that's what's up***


Dec 10, 2018, 1:05 PM



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Is today “Signing Day”?***


Dec 10, 2018, 1:08 PM



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Re: It Sucks.. that's what's up***


Dec 10, 2018, 1:17 PM [ in reply to It Sucks.. that's what's up*** ]

Ok. But why? If I’m a stud OL prospect, I want to play on a great offense and win awards before I get drafted. I know Clemson hasn’t put a lot of linemen in the NFL and that has been used against us. Do the top lineman want to play in the SEC because that league has the beat Defenses?

I don’t know much about Caldwell. I just know OL has always been a weakness. Does he struggle to connect with players today? I’ve heard we tend to wait on OL.

We can role through the ACC every year with an average line. Bama made our line look below average last year. Let’s be honest. DW was getting creamed by them too. I expect ND and Bama to do the same this year. Hopefully, Trevor can compensate.

I would really like to hear why OL always seems to be a struggle.

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Here's the thing about stud OL prospects


Dec 10, 2018, 2:36 PM

they want to runblock. Pass protecting can only lead to negative stats for OL. Run first teams give them the chance to impose their will on DLinemen.

QBU/WRU is never going to attract the same OL recruits as RBU.

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Re: What’s up with Offensive Line Recruiting?


Dec 10, 2018, 1:07 PM

geez... we're in the playoffs AGAIN. 5 straight wins over our rival.. 4 straight ACC champs... 4 straight years in the playoff...doing it the right way..graduating players.

WHAT DO PEOPLE WANT????

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Re: What’s up with Offensive Line Recruiting?


Dec 10, 2018, 1:09 PM

stars..... The blinding lights of the stars make it hard to see what we have.

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Re: What’s up with Offensive Line Recruiting?


Dec 10, 2018, 1:27 PM [ in reply to Re: What’s up with Offensive Line Recruiting? ]


geez... we're in the playoffs AGAIN. 5 straight wins over our rival.. 4 straight ACC champs... 4 straight years in the playoff...doing it the right way..graduating players.

WHAT DO PEOPLE WANT????


I graduated in 1996. I am very happy with where we are. OL recruiting is a legitimate question. Best is standard and you have to admit we aren’t there yet.

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Re: What’s up with Offensive Line Recruiting?


Dec 10, 2018, 2:02 PM [ in reply to Re: What’s up with Offensive Line Recruiting? ]

I think he was asking why the OL always seems to be a position of weakness as opposed to a strength. Say what you want, the OL has been one of the weak links for Clemson football for a while. You can't say that about our DL, WR's, DB's, LB's, etc.

Making the payoffs for 4 straight years and winning 4 straight ACC Championships proves that we must be doing something right. We graduate players with the best of them and run a clean program. Winning 5 over our rival is nice too, but its also as about as impressive as beating Duke 5 in a row.

I think what people want to know is when Clemson's OL is going to start being one of the best position groups on the team. This year's obvious week links are Safety and OL. Last year it was QB and OL.

Personally, I'd like to know whats holding our OL's back from putting together the types of seasons that our DL's have every season?

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Re: What’s up with Offensive Line Recruiting?


Dec 10, 2018, 1:08 PM

You asked a lot of questions...

Here is my try at the answers:

What's up with o-line recruiting currently is Rayburn and hopefully a shot to Putnam. Dawson's offer was changed this weekend but he is developmental at best. May see several additions to the list after everything shakes out Dec 19-21.

There are only about five 5 star o-linemen per cycle. A lot of people miss on them.

Robbie Caldwell is a good coach and an average recruiter at best. If all of your coaches are recruiters first and developers of talent second then you end up like scar with a bunch of guys who were supposed to be better. His players love him and he isn't going anywhere until retirement.

Slim numbers are likely due to trying to land the big fish and refusing to over-offer. When you wait and don't get them there aren't numbers left to fall back on. I like that our staff doesn't throw out hundreds of offers for 4 or 5 spots but when you miss it stings a little more.

Stud o-linemen in high school are very hard to find after you pass the 5 stars. It can be very difficult to predict how linemen will turn out. This isn't to say that our coaches are not good at figuring out who will work, but maybe the recruiting services who put a premium on size and speed and raw strength are missing on some guys who are listed at 3 star but should be higher and some guys who are listed at 4 star and should be lower.

A dominant o-line won't be coming any time soon, but it isn't because of lack of talent. Our blocking scheme is centered around lots of RPOs which means we don't attempt to drive people off the ball. We create quick seems and rely on hitting holes quick or the QB to read correctly and throw. The days of driving the pile from an "I" formation are gone.

Hopefully this helps answer some of your questions.

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Re: What’s up with Offensive Line Recruiting?


Dec 10, 2018, 1:13 PM

UGA doe$n't $eem to mi$$ on very many at all.

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Re: What’s up with Offensive Line Recruiting?


Dec 10, 2018, 1:14 PM

Everybody doesn't mi$$ but a lot of people do.

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Re: What’s up with Offensive Line Recruiting?


Dec 10, 2018, 1:15 PM [ in reply to Re: What’s up with Offensive Line Recruiting? ]

Maybe it's the way they run the ball with all world rb's too? I think they just have a head stat with all of that tradition. We're getting better in that regard. The best s yet to come.

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Re: What’s up with Offensive Line Recruiting?


Dec 10, 2018, 1:31 PM

Not saying this time but last year was obviou$. Guess they prefer to run block instead of run and pass block.

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Re: What’s up with Offensive Line Recruiting?


Dec 10, 2018, 1:57 PM [ in reply to Re: What’s up with Offensive Line Recruiting? ]

I don’t get how Ugay keeps getting most of the top recruits. There are only 5 starting o-line spots. I’m fine with not getting 5 star guys but we do need big boys who can stand up to the big D-lines like Bama, Auburn, and A&M.

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Re: What’s up with Offensive Line Recruiting?


Dec 10, 2018, 2:31 PM [ in reply to Re: What’s up with Offensive Line Recruiting? ]

UGA gets all the top OL lately for sure, I don’t think they are paying kids but who knows. What I do know is that all top rated OL kids constantly say they committed because they want to play for and be coached by Sam Pittman.

That man is the reason UGA is pulling these OL and he is worth his weight in gold.

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Re: What’s up with Offensive Line Recruiting?


Dec 10, 2018, 1:20 PM [ in reply to Re: What’s up with Offensive Line Recruiting? ]

TigersO said:

You asked a lot of questions...

Here is my try at the answers:

What's up with o-line recruiting currently is Rayburn and hopefully a shot to Putnam. Dawson's offer was changed this weekend but he is developmental at best. May see several additions to the list after everything shakes out Dec 19-21.

There are only about five 5 star o-linemen per cycle. A lot of people miss on them.

Robbie Caldwell is a good coach and an average recruiter at best. If all of your coaches are recruiters first and developers of talent second then you end up like scar with a bunch of guys who were supposed to be better. His players love him and he isn't going anywhere until retirement.

Slim numbers are likely due to trying to land the big fish and refusing to over-offer. When you wait and don't get them there aren't numbers left to fall back on. I like that our staff doesn't throw out hundreds of offers for 4 or 5 spots but when you miss it stings a little more.

Stud o-linemen in high school are very hard to find after you pass the 5 stars. It can be very difficult to predict how linemen will turn out. This isn't to say that our coaches are not good at figuring out who will work, but maybe the recruiting services who put a premium on size and speed and raw strength are missing on some guys who are listed at 3 star but should be higher and some guys who are listed at 4 star and should be lower.

A dominant o-line won't be coming any time soon, but it isn't because of lack of talent. Our blocking scheme is centered around lots of RPOs which means we don't attempt to drive people off the ball. We create quick seems and rely on hitting holes quick or the QB to read correctly and throw. The days of driving the pile from an "I" formation are gone.

Hopefully this helps answer some of your questions.



Makes sense. Thank you!

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Don’t disagree with a lot of your post


Dec 10, 2018, 1:49 PM [ in reply to Re: What’s up with Offensive Line Recruiting? ]

But I’m not convinced this isn’t a chicken vs egg debate. Are we running this brand of run game because we don’t have an OL that can dominate people or do we choose not to have an OL like that because of our offensive scheme.

The fact that we’ve offered and missed on a lot of these blue chip prospects (which plenty of others have too as you mentioned) would suggest we’re going after the “hogmollies” up front and just not landing them.

My main issue is with the numbers we’re taking in. You made a good point that we chase the big fish and don’t “over offer” but when we strike out on the blue chip guys, we’re left scrambling with guys that are projects or just not top tier talent because we’re late in the game.

IMO and many others, we should be taking 3-4 OL every cycle to maintain depth and ensure competition. Really it’s the only area of our recruiting that I’m any bit concerned about.

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Re: Don’t disagree with a lot of your post


Dec 10, 2018, 1:56 PM

You can't drive block an RPO. We could sign multiple 5 stars in the next few classes and I don't think we are going to get rid of the RPO from our offense.

I think the best representation of results in our current blocking scheme is lack of negative plays. Yes ETN and Lawrence play a part in eliminating negative plays but we have improved in this category immensely this season. I hope it stays that way in the playoffs!

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Re: What’s up with Offensive Line Recruiting?


Dec 10, 2018, 6:36 PM [ in reply to Re: What’s up with Offensive Line Recruiting? ]

TigersO


Love the breakdown you gave! Perfectly said. Far too many times the kids ranked high In recruiting boards are just the kids who have peaked physically 1st. Lower tier guys maybe have not yet reached their physical peak yet. Especially cases where it was b/c the kid had a poor s/c program at their school or a poor diet b/c of social/economic issues, etc. All of which can be influenced by having the kid "on campus"! You take a 3* with a ton of potential and red shirt him and condition his body/mind to what you need: "and bam your cooking with grease"!

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Re: What’s up with Offensive Line Recruiting?


Dec 10, 2018, 1:12 PM

People will try to spin it but it really is disappointing. Something needs to change.

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Re: What’s up with Offensive Line Recruiting?


Dec 10, 2018, 1:14 PM

Has our line disappointed you this year?

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Re: What’s up with Offensive Line Recruiting?


Dec 10, 2018, 1:24 PM

TigersO said:

Has our line disappointed you this year?



Not at all. I think the line has played great against a bunch of average teams. TL has a lot to do with that. I do expect it to be a problem in the playoffs. TL is awesome but he will be pressured at a different level versus ND and Bama.

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Re: What’s up with Offensive Line Recruiting?


Dec 10, 2018, 1:43 PM

Do you say the same about ETN or Higgins or others?

They have only been good against average teams?

I don't hear anybody withholding compliments for our skill guys because of only playing against average teams. Why the double standard?

ETN wasn't touched on the first play of the game in the ACC title game. Great by him but still undecided on if that was a good job by the o-line?

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Re: What’s up with Offensive Line Recruiting?


Dec 10, 2018, 1:51 PM

Let’s be honest. We haven’t played an above average team all year. It doesn’t mean we aren’t a great team, but our schedule is weak. If the line holds up against ND and Bama, I’ll be pleasantly surprised.

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Re: What’s up with Offensive Line Recruiting?


Dec 10, 2018, 1:58 PM

Will you also be pleasantly surprised if ETN runs well?

Will you be surprised if Higgins and Ross catch the ball?

Will you be surprised if Lawrence throws it to our team and not theirs?

I'm ignoring who we have played and asking why you have a double standard for where you give credit.

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Re: What’s up with Offensive Line Recruiting?


Dec 10, 2018, 2:27 PM [ in reply to Re: What’s up with Offensive Line Recruiting? ]

i'd like to answer here as well....

on the surface, no. Our OL hasn't disappointed me.

however, if you go a little deeper and watch what's happening in the trenches every play instead of ball watching, you will see that too many times we have linemen coming out of their stances looking to titty fight with a DL instead of knocking his d*** in the dirt.

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Re: What’s up with Offensive Line Recruiting?


Dec 10, 2018, 2:42 PM

You may have missed it in other posts from me on this message.

We do not drive block anymore. Our blocking scheme and offensive scheme do not use it.

You can't drive a d-lineman 10 yards down the field on an RPO. That is a penalty if the read is to pass.

Our linemen are coached to create seems and angles and keep Lawrence off the ground. I don't talk to coaches to find this out but you can watch them block and notice what we are trying to do.

That's why when we pull guys, except for on screen plays, our linemen get around the edge and just slide down the line instead of going to get somebody. It's because they don't know when the play will be a pass or run.

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Re: What’s up with Offensive Line Recruiting?


Dec 10, 2018, 1:24 PM [ in reply to Re: What’s up with Offensive Line Recruiting? ]

I wonder how many of the "it's caldwell's fault" crowd have ever spent 5 minutes around the man? Lot's of folks question his age, personality, recruiting ability, and evaluation skills (not many question his coaching acumen). what is your opinion based on? Can't be on field results- see the record since he's been here, 95-14). does he bear some "blame" for OL recruiting, since he is the position coach? certainly. but so do the "area" coach, the coord, the HC, the player hosts, etc.. its a group effort, good or bad.
i just don't understand.

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Re: What’s up with Offensive Line Recruiting?


Dec 10, 2018, 1:13 PM

I know many people are wondering if we need a younger different OL coach. He obviously is a great coach. Maybe a different guy could make recruiting easier? That's what some are thinking. I love what I am seeing for 2020. I love Rayburn in 19. My gut is that we just need to build more tradition with OL and putting Olineman in the NFL. I think we are going to start seeing that more and more. I think we will be fine. We are getting better and better. I remember when we had guys like Tommy Sharpe at maybe 250lbs starting at center. That wasn't really even that long ago. We've come a long way.

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This is about our inability to pull to OL talent


Dec 10, 2018, 1:14 PM

Georgia doesn't have that problem.
Don't change the conversation to.....
Well we have Justin Ross; well we have TLaw; well we're in the playoffs; etc.

It's true.. we suck at consistent recruitment of OL talent.
Admittedly, we do well compensating.

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Re: This is about our inability to pull to OL talent


Dec 10, 2018, 1:16 PM

Besides UGA and Bama who doesn't suck at consistently bringing in top level o-line talent?

Look at FSU and Miami to for "sucking" at o-line recruitment.

We have room to grow but we are far from terrible.

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Re: This is about our inability to pull to OL talent


Dec 10, 2018, 1:20 PM

COME ON MAN, DONT YOU KNOW THEM 50 PT, 500 YARD PER GAME AVERAGES JUST COME OUT OF THE BLUE. JUST THINK, WE MIGHT ACTUALLY BE GOOD SOMEDAY IF WE COULD JUST RECRUIT A COUPLE OF DECENT LINEMEN. SMH.

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Re: This is about our inability to pull to OL talent


Dec 10, 2018, 1:23 PM [ in reply to Re: This is about our inability to pull to OL talent ]

Without even looking it up I can tell you LSU doesn't, Wisconsin doesn't, Michigan doesn't, Boston College doesn't.

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Re: This is about our inability to pull to OL talent


Dec 10, 2018, 1:46 PM

Did you watch any of those teams you just listed try to pass block this year? Just because a team runs the ball 75% of their plays and puts up good rushing yardage does not mean they have a dominant line.

Our coaches would like our guys to do both. That's why our line is better now than it was in 15 and 16. We have more well-rounded o-linemen instead of guys who excel at run blocking or pass blocking.

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Re: This is about our inability to pull to OL talent


Dec 10, 2018, 2:21 PM [ in reply to Re: This is about our inability to pull to OL talent ]

Congratulations you just admitting you dont know what the #### you're talking about. Clemson has signed more composite 4 & 5 star oline prospects since 2015 than Wisconsin and BC put together.

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Brad Brownell: more losses than any other coach in school history.


Re: This is about our inability to pull to OL talent


Dec 10, 2018, 1:33 PM [ in reply to Re: This is about our inability to pull to OL talent ]

TigersO said:

Besides UGA and Bama who doesn't suck at consistently bringing in top level o-line talent?


Look at FSU and Miami to for "sucking" at o-line recruitment.

We have room to grow but we are far from terrible.


That’s my point. FSU has as much talent as anyone. All over the field. They missed on OL a couple of cycles and you can see the impact.

THIS is why some are concerned with OL recruiting. I’m not blaming anyone. Just trying to understand why we keep missing on the top guys despite now being considered elite.

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Re: This is about our inability to pull to OL talent


Dec 10, 2018, 1:50 PM

"Missed on o-line recruiting a couple cycles" does not tell their story.

The did not miss on targets as much as they evaluated poorly. They have still pulled 4 and 5 star guys. They just weren't actually good. The ones who were good didn't get better because they had a recruiter who couldn't develop guys.

The people pushing for a young o-line coach who can recruit could turn our o-line into what FSU has in a hurry. For what Caldwell lacks in recruiting he makes up for in player development.

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Re: This is about our inability to pull to OL talent


Dec 10, 2018, 6:55 PM [ in reply to Re: This is about our inability to pull to OL talent ]

How many 5* Olinemen does Wisconsin sign?

I could only find 2 on their All-Time listings and yet they always deliver. Now, I see that we don't block that way but we could be just as successful at what we do with our only having 2 5* Olinemen ever, too. Both teams 5*s are OTs. Wisconsin has a third committed for 2020. Hoping we have 2 in 2020.

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Re: This is about our inability to pull to OL talent


Dec 10, 2018, 1:17 PM [ in reply to This is about our inability to pull to OL talent ]

True, but we are getting way better. We have some very solid talent in the mix and in the wings. We are getting way better actually.

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Re: What’s up with Offensive Line Recruiting?


Dec 10, 2018, 1:18 PM

If you think we are scratching our heads what do you think Saban and Malzahn are doing? This will play out one way or another for Georgia, something rotten in Athens!

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Re: What’s up with Offensive Line Recruiting?


Dec 10, 2018, 1:21 PM

IT IS CALLED BLATANT DISREGARD FOR THE RULES. SIMPLE REALLY.

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Re: What’s up with Offensive Line Recruiting?


Dec 10, 2018, 1:29 PM

It will help when Mitch Hyatt goes in the first 2 rounds this year. We will be adding a lot of guys to NFL rosters over the next 5 years. It takes to build that tradition on the OL. It's in the works and happening. We're doing great. Look at the offers the guys we are landing get. We;re good. We got a stud LT in Carman last year. I don't get why people are complaining. We're growing.

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Re: What’s up with Offensive Line Recruiting?


Dec 10, 2018, 1:29 PM

Agree with you 100%. I just dont get how we keep losing in OL Recruiting!

Last year it was Cade Mays, and now it is Webb. Is it Caldwell's fault? Is he not up to what it takes for OL Recruiting? If so, why is Dabo hanging on to him? If Best is the Standard, how come we are not getting the Best OLs?

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Re: What’s up with Offensive Line Recruiting?


Dec 10, 2018, 2:42 PM

I can tell you... it’s Sam Pittman. He is the reason UGA pulls these top rated OL kids, it’s simple as that.

Every OL commit mentions it’s boils down to them wanting to be coached by Pittman in their interviews after committing.

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Re: What’s up with Offensive Line Recruiting?


Dec 10, 2018, 2:44 PM

Every recruit at UGA is not getting paid.

However, the ones who are getting paid are not going to highlight in their post commitment interview that they came for the cash. Saying they are coming for the coach is a reasonable response to why did you sign with a school. The guys who sign with us say the same thing about Caldwell.

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Re: What’s up with Offensive Line Recruiting?


Dec 10, 2018, 3:14 PM

I really don’t think they are paying any of these kids personally, but I obviously have no proof either way.

Mostly every OL recruit Pittman has went for he has got to my knowledge. Going against programs such as CU/ALA/Aub/OK/ARK/USC etc. If it was only about money, one would assume at some point another team would have paid more and received the commitment.

Seriously every OL kid loves the man and the style he coaches. It’s to the point now they have a logjam of 4-5 stars on the OL similar to us at WR. I don’t believe we pay our WR commits, they mention they love Dabo/Scott and the style of which we play, giving them the best chance to move to NFL.

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Re: What’s up with Offensive Line Recruiting?


Dec 10, 2018, 3:19 PM

Saying he gets every o-lineman that he goes for is ridiculous.

Are you trying to tell me that he didn't recruit Jackson Carman?

Also Bama has a couple of young 5 star o-linemen. Did he not go for them?

You notice the ones he has beaten Clemson for and base your opinion off of that. He is great at what he does. There is no doubt about that. But to pretend he never misses is naive.

Also, I don't have any proof that UGA is paying recruits but there is smoke. Also some of the circumstances around commitments that last couple of years have been odd to say the least.

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Re: What’s up with Offensive Line Recruiting?


Dec 10, 2018, 3:34 PM

I said “mostly” every OL recruit not all. No one is going to be 100%. He is the top OL recruiter in the nation and I don’t believe it is close. I am not knocking our recruiting at all but giving props to those who deserves it.

It becomes incredibly annoying when we don’t get a recruit, half of this board goes to say ahh they are paying them or something underhanded is going on. Nope sometimes you just get beat.

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Re: What’s up with Offensive Line Recruiting?


Dec 10, 2018, 1:34 PM

My recollection is Tom Osborne built a powerhouse taking undervalued OL and developing them. Most did not start until Jrs and sometimes Srs. As others have pointed out, obvious top OL are few and far between coming straight out of HS.

Do I wish we could get 5 star OL - yes, well the coaches want them even more. But the only thing I know about cats, is their is more than one way gently pet them ( this adage was edited for peta ).

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We need to consistently put guys in the NFL


Dec 10, 2018, 1:43 PM

It’s coming. Hyatt is a start. I think Simpson gets there too. That’s the only thing teams recruiting against us has to use against us.

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Re: What’s up with Offensive Line Recruiting?


Dec 10, 2018, 1:40 PM

Putnam would be a huge get we really need him now.

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I think it is misspelling.


Dec 10, 2018, 1:45 PM

Offensive linemen get very little recognition, and way too many Clemson fans misspell their names.

IT IS CARMAN!



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null


Re: What’s up with Offensive Line Recruiting?


Dec 10, 2018, 3:48 PM

Why do we not turn more d linemen into offensive lineman and recruit more of them?

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Re: What’s up with Offensive Line Recruiting?


Dec 10, 2018, 5:32 PM

You gotta love guys that come here with names like "reality". LOL Trolls come in all shapes and sizes.

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Re: What’s up with Offensive Line Recruiting?


Dec 10, 2018, 5:53 PM


You gotta love guys that come here with names like "reality". LOL Trolls come in all shapes and sizes.


Sure bud. I’ve been on this board since 2003 after we got beat by a mediocre NC state team. Where were you?

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Apparently not a lot.***


Dec 10, 2018, 6:19 PM



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Re: Apparently not a lot.***


Dec 10, 2018, 6:29 PM

Some of us don’t need to post every opinion every chance we get. My questions are legit. Not sure why anyone would think I’m a troll. Trolling wasn’t even a concept when I joined TigerNet. Love how anyone on this board that asks a legit question gets labeled a troll. Now you know why I rarely post.

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Re: What’s up with Offensive Line Recruiting?


Dec 10, 2018, 6:20 PM

They’ve been to 4 STRAIGHT Playoffs I think they have an idea who they want to get.

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