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Oculus Spirit [93650]
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Brother Prodigal,
Dec 11, 2020, 7:59 AM
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We had a discussion yesterday in which I made a statement which was not clear. I said the state legislatures alone make laws governing elections and you requested that I show you where the US constitution said such.
The term “Elections Clause” refers to Art. 1, § 4, cl. 1, of the United States Constitution that reads as follows: “The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but Congress may at any time make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Place of chusing Senators.”
"Foster v. Love, 522 U.S. 67, 69 (1997)
The Elections Clause of the Constitution, Art. I, § 4, cl. 1, provides that “[t]he Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations.” The Clause is a default provision; it invests the States with responsibility for the mechanics of congressional elections, see Storer v. Brown, 415 U. S. 724, 730 (1974), but only so far as Congress declines to pre-empt state legislative choices, see Roudebush v. Hartke, 405 U. S. 15, 24 (1972) (“Unless Congress acts, Art. I, § 4, empowers the States to regulate”). Thus it is well settled that the Elections Clause grants Congress “the power to override state regulations” by establishing uniform rules for federal elections, binding on the States. U. S. Term Limits, Inc. v. Thornton, 514 U. S. 779, 832-833 (1995). “[T]he regulations made by Congress are paramount to those made by the State legislature; and if they conflict therewith, the latter, so far as the conflict extends, ceases to be operative.” Ex parte Siebold, 100 U. S. 371, 384 (1880).
https://encyclopedia.lexroll.com/encyclopedia/elections-clause/![]() The Elections Clause of the U.S. Constitution | Law Encyclopedia The term “Elections Clause” refers to Art. 1, § 4, cl. 1, of the United States Constitution that reads as follows: “The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but Congress may at any time make or alter such Regulations, except as […]
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Remember this, brother. The lunge lawyers knew what I said was correct. Why they didn't speak up in my defense is accessible. Why they did not speak up for the truth is not.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Brother Prodigal,
Dec 11, 2020, 8:02 AM
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You're losing your mind. He lost. The people spoke. There is no fraud, other than the president himself. Move on with your life. Trump thinks you're a sucker and and idiot. Recognize that and move on and be better.
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Heisman Winner [119684]
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Carl, STOP WITH THE NAME CALLING
Dec 11, 2020, 8:06 AM
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You said weeks ago you stopping the vitriol. Man up!
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Carl, STOP WITH THE NAME CALLING
Dec 11, 2020, 8:10 AM
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Dude, first off, I didn't call him a name in this post. Secondly, mind your own business. Thirdly, when it is needed it is needed.
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Heisman Winner [119684]
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You called him an idiot
Dec 11, 2020, 8:15 AM
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Stop embarrassing yourself. You sound loony with your constant attacks...
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All-In [48078]
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Re: You called him an idiot
Dec 11, 2020, 8:23 AM
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Come on, bud. You try. That's hilarious. That was so pathetically weak. Are you getting senile? That's what you went with? Move on.
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Orange Blooded [2015]
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Oculus Spirit [93650]
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No, he is not.
Dec 11, 2020, 12:09 PM
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He is actually saved by the Blood but he's made some personal choices which have caused a break in fellowship with The Almighty. Our responsibility is to make sure he knows that God is sitting on His throne and remains exactly where he was then and always will be.
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Orange Blooded [2015]
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Re: Brother Prodigal,
Dec 11, 2020, 8:39 AM
[ in reply to Re: Brother Prodigal, ] |
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Again lets do some critical thinking:
This is what your eyes saw:
Trump had massive rallies everywhere he went. Even in Blue areas.
Did better with the Hispanic community, better with African American males
Joe basically didn't even campaign and when he did hold events like 5 people showed up besides press and staff
But we are supposed to believe that he had the most votes in history - Just didn't happen!
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All-In [26968]
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Use your eyes: South Carolina used to sell out
Dec 11, 2020, 8:41 AM
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all their football games. They must have won those games.
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All-In [42131]
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There it is, folks.
Dec 11, 2020, 10:24 AM
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The analogy that shuts down all the "But... but... Trump rally attendance!" arguments.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Brother Prodigal,
Dec 11, 2020, 8:42 AM
[ in reply to Re: Brother Prodigal, ] |
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Critical Thinking? I think you might want to sit this one out. That said, you and Bengaline are on the same team. You guys should Tmail.
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All-In [26968]
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The legislatures obviously make the laws.
Dec 11, 2020, 8:10 AM
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That's inarguable; in fact, it's a redundant statement. But other entities can and do influence how those laws are executed. It happens all the time, at every level of government. Your statement that "legislatures hold all power over elections" is incorrect, and that was my argument. If governors or other parties get involved, they have to so in a manner that is allowed by the law. If not, then those actions can and should be stopped, as they occur. And I'm sure in some cases, that happened.
What doesn't make sense is people in another state, months after the fact, suing because they think the law wasn't followed. In reality, they are only suing because they don't like the results of the election. That is obvious.
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All-In [26968]
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All-In [26968]
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Check the dates, too.
Dec 11, 2020, 8:28 AM
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Not sure where Texas gets their news, but it sure took them a while (six months) to realize the governor was doing something illegal.
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Lot o points [155795]
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The only commonality I can see is that they both
Dec 11, 2020, 8:56 AM
[ in reply to 88, look at these two EOs ] |
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contain words and have an election as their primary subject.
PA is for the primary election and says that votes can be counted if they come in up to a week after the election day.
FL is for primary and general and says people can begin counting votes early, and state employees can get time off to work the polls.
Was there some larger or more subtle point that I'm missing? I'm not really in this debate, but I read what you posted and there are limited similarities.
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All-In [26968]
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They are both examples of the governors
Dec 11, 2020, 8:59 AM
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modifying or suspending the execution of certain election laws. And they list the same reason, because they have power to do so under emergency-related law.
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Lot o points [155795]
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Ahhh, ok, that was subtle.***
Dec 11, 2020, 9:02 AM
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All-In [26968]
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I did miss that the PA one was for the primary.
Dec 11, 2020, 9:05 AM
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Dock points from me for that.
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Oculus Spirit [93650]
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Re: The legislatures obviously make the laws.
Dec 11, 2020, 8:50 AM
[ in reply to The legislatures obviously make the laws. ] |
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"Interests of Amici; Summary of Brief
The proposed brief would bring to the Court’s attention (1) the perspectives of State Senators, State Representatives, and a Lieutenant Governor of states disenfranchised by the unconstitutional actions, fraud, and other irregularities of the Defendant States, and (2) a perspective of Article IV, Section 4, of the U.S.
Constitution not raised in Plaintiff’s brief. See Appendix A for list of thirty-nine
Amici.
Page 1 of 5
As set forth in the enclosed brief, the Amici elected officials have a strong interest in the outcome of Plaintiff’s application to vacate or enjoin Defendant States from certifying their electors. Specifically, the Amici elected officials have a critical interest in ensuring that the electors from sister states represent the actual and honest vote of said sister states, so that an illegal election will not reach fruition and spoil the vote from the state they represent...'
https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/22/22O155/163407/20201210153740090_FINAL%20TO%20FILE%20SCOTUS%20%20SIGNED%202020.12.10%20copy.pdf
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All-In [26968]
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Moved the goalposts.
Dec 11, 2020, 8:58 AM
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Yesterday, you said, and I quote: "The constitution gives all power to decide elections to states' general assemblies/legislature."
Today you are saying "create law". You did not say that yesterday.
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All-In [26968]
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Sorry, responded to the wrong reply there.***
Dec 11, 2020, 9:01 AM
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Oculus Spirit [93650]
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Re: Sorry, responded to the wrong reply there.***
Dec 11, 2020, 10:10 AM
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No problem, it's difficult to track which topic you're addressing with all the voices here and very little harmony among us. We're good. I just wanted to let you know I wasn't making stuff up and seldom do I propose an opinion without specifying that it's my opinion.
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All-In [34102]
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That's the correct answer.
Dec 11, 2020, 9:36 AM
[ in reply to Moved the goalposts. ] |
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I was too lazy to go find his other post.
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: The legislatures obviously make the laws.
Dec 11, 2020, 9:03 AM
[ in reply to Re: The legislatures obviously make the laws. ] |
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How many governors or election boards in red states made emergency rulings on how to conduct elections due to the pandemic ?
And why isn't the Texas AG suing them, as well ??
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Oculus Spirit [93650]
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Re: The legislatures obviously make the laws.
Dec 11, 2020, 10:30 AM
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Whether or not the legislators had sole authority to make election laws in each state was the topic of the discussion yesterday. I posted a clarification of the topic then responded with the proper undeniable support for my statement.
To address your question which is valid, imo, I wonder. Why aren't they filing suit against other states which violated state election laws by allowing or providing for changes which were not approved by state legislation? Is it because they haven't gotten around to it yet? Perhaps it didn't matter or that we don't know whether or not it happened because all the focus on election and voter fraud has been focused on GA, MI, MN, WI, PA, AZ and NV. IDK.
Perhaps it's because those who filed the suit think the most damage done to the Texas electorate was done by a select few of those state mentioned above. IDK. It's a good question and I think you should seek answers from those who filed the lawsuit. We can speculate all we want but if we begin to argue over why we may take opposite opinion and both risk looking like fools for presenting our opinion as truth.
IMO, AZ and NV will be rectified by powers within the state. Imo, they are choosing the states which have, in their opinion, the most fraud. Imo, this entire fiasco is designed to pressure republicans in the states legislators and the US congress to rectify what is believe to be election fraud in the respective assembly(s).
I do not know how this will turn out so I'm not claiming to know. Anyone who does is speculating or wishful thinking, imo.
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All-In [26968]
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You're almost there...
Dec 11, 2020, 11:46 AM
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Why would the problems in GA, MI, PA, and WI do more "damage" to voters in Texas than in, say, Florida?
The answer is obvious. It's because they don't like who won those states. Not that their laws were bad, or something.
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Oculus Spirit [93650]
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Re: You're almost there...
Dec 11, 2020, 12:06 PM
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I was addressing the question 'Why didn't Texas go after the other states who damaged or diluted their electoral votes.' I offered some speculation addressing those particular states.
They couldn't show damage in a suit against Florida because their electoral votes were not harmed by Florida. If that's what you are saying then we agree. The suit would not only make them look foolish it would be an embarrassment to the law profession.
Whether or not they 'like,' who won those states is not admissible in court. Why you insist that is their motivation is confusing. It's not a factor.
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All-In [26968]
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How can an electoral vote be "harmed"?
Dec 11, 2020, 12:24 PM
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What does that even mean? You might as well say they harmed the color purple, or the number eight.
You don't sue because an "electoral vote" is harmed. You sue because people are harmed. No Texan has had their rights in any way affected by what happened in these other states. It's ludicrous.
They are suing because they want the candidate they like to win the election. Do you disagree with that?
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Oculus Spirit [93650]
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Re: How can an electoral vote be "harmed"?
Dec 11, 2020, 12:57 PM
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Electoral vote represents the people. How about 'diluted,' rather than harmed? Surely you've read articles which discuss this factor.
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All-In [26968]
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The people have been diluted?
Dec 11, 2020, 1:05 PM
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Is that what you're saying? Because it sounds like a very silly collection of words.
I have read no articles on this subject. I have read the brief filed by Texas.
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All-In [49030]
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Oculus Spirit [93650]
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I deny being obtuse.
Dec 11, 2020, 12:58 PM
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Explain how I went from sincere to obtuse and don't accuse me of being sincerely obtuse. 
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All-In [49030]
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What do you think that proves, exactly?
Dec 11, 2020, 8:21 AM
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And how does congress’ right to set uniform rules (prior to an election) allow Texas to challenge Pennsylvania’s rules after an election? When Congress was fully aware of Pennsylvania’s rules BEFORE the election and chose not to act?
The reason the lounge lawyers stayed out of that argument was because Prodigal was handing you your ### and didn’t need any legal help.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: What do you think that proves, exactly?
Dec 11, 2020, 8:32 AM
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He has no idea.
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Oculus Spirit [93650]
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Re: What do you think that proves, exactly?
Dec 11, 2020, 8:53 AM
[ in reply to What do you think that proves, exactly? ] |
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It proves that when I said the US Constitution explicitly gave authority over state legislators to create election law no lawyer here stepped up and set Prodigal strait when he said it wasn't in the constitution. 
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All-In [48078]
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Re: What do you think that proves, exactly?
Dec 11, 2020, 8:56 AM
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You're delusional at this stage. You have gone insane. Check yourself in.
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Oculus Spirit [93650]
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What we've got here...
Dec 11, 2020, 10:07 AM
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All-In [48078]
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Re: What we've got here...
Dec 11, 2020, 10:37 AM
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Nah...You are delusional and basically hate America at this stage. Nah...we communicate just fine. You turned into, or you always were, a delusional scumbag. There is redemption though. Step it up.
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Replies: 38
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