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What should we reasonably expect for Clemson basketball?
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What should we reasonably expect for Clemson basketball?


Jan 31, 2021, 4:53 PM

We are in clearly the best basketball conference....

Even in down seasons the conference is loaded with talent..the Duke team that just defeated us probably has more Hs all Americans on their 2nd team than we have on our whole team ...

Our talent level at best rates somewhere in the middle of the pack in the ACC...

How can we reasonably expect the results to improve until the talent improves?

Right now Brownell seems to be trending in the right direction as far as recruiting...

Three of the top ten highest rated players we’ve landed (according to 247) are young players on the team right now ..

To use a football analogy the BB program needs to land their CJ Spiller ..a guy that could go anywhere but chooses Clemson ..

Zion Williamson could’ve been that guy ...but it looks like there may have been some red flags in his recruitment - and it probably best we didn’t land him..

That said until Clemson’s BB talent takes the next step - I’m not sure why we should expect better than the level we’re at....

Brownell isn’t a bad coach ..we’re generally at a talent disadvantage in most ACC games...

It’s probably not reasonable to assume a new coach will lead to much program improvement until we start landing better talent ...something which Brownell seems to be doing as of late ...

Why is recruiting getting better?
Facility improvements and elevation of the Clemson brand due to football success would be my best guess...

Regardless of coach that’s a trend that will be there...

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It's kind of a blind squirrel situation, as you describe,


Jan 31, 2021, 5:13 PM

where "facility improvements and elevation of the Clemson brand due to football success" have helped our recruiting. Those are tangible facts. But, it's only a slight uptick and that is relative to the first 8 years of his tenure.

The parts of the equation that are missing are the confidence and charisma and hard work that a quality head coach brings to the table along with an AD that has set expectations too low.

The apathy of the AD has led to the growing apathy of the fan base.

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Re: What should we reasonably expect for Clemson basketball?


Jan 31, 2021, 5:14 PM

I would love to be a 1st, 2nd, 3d place team in the ACC every year, and why not, we are a D-I power conference ACC school where BB is King. And we should expect no less for the school, the team, and the fans deserve that IMO!!!


Message was edited by: allinallorangeallthetime52®


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Re: What should we reasonably expect for Clemson basketball?


Jan 31, 2021, 5:19 PM

I don't think anyone is expecting conference or national championships, but we should expect better than 2 NCAA tournament appearances per decade. I'd be happy with a 40-50% NCAA tournament rate with one or two second weekend appearances per decade.

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Re: What should we reasonably expect for Clemson basketball?


Jan 31, 2021, 5:27 PM

Evidently you have not watched the last 4 out of five games.
Players are playing lazy on offense, taking the three point shot instead of moving the ball inside to get a higher percentage shot or going inside back out for a wide open shot. There have not been any extra passes to cutting players to get better shots. Players are standing flat footed waiting on a three point shot opportunity.
Clemson has not scored second chance points in so long that I don't remember it. There is no offensive rebounding, once a shot goes up they just run slowly down the court and are out of position on defense.
As for defense or the lack of it, which is what Coach BB hangs his hat on, it is non-existent. Rotations are slow and players are out of position most times. They are giving up 70-80 points per game and the games are worse than the score indicates because they are playing against the end of the bench for the last 6-7 minutes of the game.
What should we expect of Clemson BB? To be the very best their talent can produce and there is no way you can say they are giving that type of effort.

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Actually against Duke we didn't start out heaving 3 balls.


Jan 31, 2021, 6:49 PM

We kept missing 6-12 footers, not to mention missed layups. The open shots were there. There's just no confidence in this team at making shots right now. Brad's coaching has always been to go with the hot hand, but right now all hands are still in the ice bath.

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It's perfectly fair and reasonable to expect better.


Jan 31, 2021, 5:31 PM

Make the NCAA tournament at least half of the time. Advance past the 1st round half of those times. I'd be happy with that. As for talent, of course, that's wher it all starts. We need an upgrade in talent - consistently above what we've grown accustomed to. Any coach we hire must be a strong recruiter. The notion that we just can't do it at Clemson because good basketball players all come from inner cities and big metro areas is total BS; good basketball players come from all over. There is nothing inherent about Clemson, aside from our lack of basketball history, that prevents us from bringing in top talent, and if we are willing to let that stop us from trying, we should just give up now. We have to start there, and get a coach that can recruit. If Brownell can do it, GREAT! If not, then next man up. Don't continue down the same path that got us to this point.

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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


Re: What should we reasonably expect for Clemson basketball?


Jan 31, 2021, 5:37 PM

We are not “in clearly the best basketball conference...”. We are currently ranked 5th by RPI behind even the American Athletic Conference and the ACC has not finished a season better than 3rd since the 2016-17 season. Only redshirt seniors have possibly played the last time the ACC was actually the best conference in basketball.

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Jstone D329 - “ It’s ok to want a coaching change”
Brownell @Clemson: 8 seasons ranked 50th or worse by Sports Reference’s SRS
1-29: Brad Brownell road record against ranked ACC opponents
142, 161, 294, 307, 293, 166, 225, 180, 260, 164, 141, 72, 68 - assist rankings amongst all D1 programs during Brownell's tenure


ACC seems especially bad this year.


Jan 31, 2021, 5:45 PM

We should be burning it up.

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Re: What should we reasonably expect for Clemson basketball?


Jan 31, 2021, 5:46 PM [ in reply to Re: What should we reasonably expect for Clemson basketball? ]

In the last ten completed seasons ...
The ACC has won 5/10 national titles ..

Including the last championship ...

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Re: What should we reasonably expect for Clemson basketball?


Jan 31, 2021, 5:55 PM

That has little to no reflection on the depth and quality of the overall conference. Or do you believe the SEC East is a powerhouse in football because of all the SEC West national championships?

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Jstone D329 - “ It’s ok to want a coaching change”
Brownell @Clemson: 8 seasons ranked 50th or worse by Sports Reference’s SRS
1-29: Brad Brownell road record against ranked ACC opponents
142, 161, 294, 307, 293, 166, 225, 180, 260, 164, 141, 72, 68 - assist rankings amongst all D1 programs during Brownell's tenure


Re: What should we reasonably expect for Clemson basketball?


Jan 31, 2021, 6:29 PM [ in reply to Re: What should we reasonably expect for Clemson basketball? ]

That's a terrible metric for determining the best conference.

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Re: What should we reasonably expect for Clemson basketball?


Jan 31, 2021, 5:46 PM

Can’t understand after 11 seasons you can defend Brownell I must be in a twilight zone in hearing those that say we are getting ready to take off. There are many good coaches waiting for a call to be a head coach Bob Richey of Furman Wes Miller of UNC Greensboro Luke Murray of Louisville Jon Scheyer of Duke Jason Williford of Virginia Richie Riley of S Ala Jordan Mincey of Florida Gerry McNamara of Syracuse to just name a few Energetic young guys with charisma who are good recruiters

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Re: What should we reasonably expect for Clemson basketball?


Jan 31, 2021, 5:49 PM

I’m not defending Brownell - I’m arguing that until we find a way to improve our talent level ..we can’t assume we’ll be better off ...

Go back and look at Brownell’s time at Wright State ..it’s comparable to the resumes of the numerous “up and comers” being touted on this board ...

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Re: What should we reasonably expect for Clemson basketball?


Jan 31, 2021, 8:37 PM

This begs the question of who is in charge of recruiting other than the head coach?

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Class of ‘71. Went through “rat season” and glad I did.


Re: What should we reasonably expect for Clemson basketball?


Jan 31, 2021, 5:52 PM [ in reply to Re: What should we reasonably expect for Clemson basketball? ]

Only problem is getting someone to get off their duff and vet these guys That is where we are falling short If not for Dabo where would we be I guess the adm is expecting Dabo to go out and get them a coach while they stay on their computers

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Re: What should we reasonably expect for Clemson basketball?


Jan 31, 2021, 5:56 PM

Would you have hired Dabo based on his resume Like Terry Don you have to have the gift of identifying the correct person when they are in front of you Seems a rare trait for most

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Re: What should we reasonably expect for Clemson basketball?


Feb 1, 2021, 7:51 AM [ in reply to Re: What should we reasonably expect for Clemson basketball? ]

Moontiger said:

Can’t understand after 11 seasons you can defend Brownell I must be in a twilight zone in hearing those that say we are getting ready to take off. There are many good coaches waiting for a call to be a head coach Bob Richey of Furman Wes Miller of UNC Greensboro Luke Murray of Louisville Jon Scheyer of Duke Jason Williford of Virginia Richie Riley of S Ala Jordan Mincey of Florida Gerry McNamara of Syracuse to just name a few Energetic young guys with charisma who are good recruiters



You forgot about Pat Kelsey at Winthrop who hasn’t lost a a game yet this season.

We can actually save money if we do ever decide to let Brad go. It’s only $400k for his buyout and can hire a good mid major coach for $2 million tops, and cut his salary which is around $3 million a year.

Look, if FSU and Va Tech can win in basketball we can. We have better basketball arenas than they do also.

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Re: What should we reasonably expect for Clemson basketball?


Feb 1, 2021, 8:07 AM [ in reply to Re: What should we reasonably expect for Clemson basketball? ]

Jason Williford is someone I would love to see here. The style of bball he has studied is sound and I personally would like to see it here. But then you wonder when he might be called back to uva. Do we have any former players who are in coaching?

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Re: What should we reasonably expect for Clemson basketball?


Jan 31, 2021, 5:56 PM

What we should reasonably expect is a better overall conference record than 89-96(.476%) in 11 seasons, which might lead to more than 2 NCAA appearances in that same time frame.
Look, no one expects us to consistently beat Duke, UNC, Virginia on a regular basis, but we should be able to compete, and win against the rest of the league at least a .500 winning percentage.
Now, this is just my take ,but it seems that while Brad is a great X and O guy, he seems to be lacking when it comes to recruiting "basketball players". So many times I read of him recruiting good ,even great" athletes" but how many times during the past 11 seasons have we seen the same results;3 game losing streaks, stretches during a game where the team goes cold for 4 or 5 minutes, missed free throws ,things that might not happen on a regular basis if he could at least land one or two true "basketball" prospects.

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Re: What should we reasonably expect for Clemson basketball?


Jan 31, 2021, 6:05 PM

This year, the ACC is not even close to the best conference. If I were the President of Clemson or any other Power 5 school, I would expect a top half of the conference finish and an invitation to the NCAA dance. Basketball is similar to football and there are honestly only 6 or 8 teams good enough to have a shot at winning it all.

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Re: What should we reasonably expect for Clemson basketball?


Jan 31, 2021, 6:39 PM

I appreciate your question, but disagree with some of the conclusions.

IMO - when you review the rankings - half of them have the same level of opportunity that Clemson has. In many cases, due to our football prestige- they are even worse off.

As far as the great ACC - it is as bad as I have ever seen it. It was for many years the benchmark from top to bottom. Now, in a normal year, we are top heavy with 2-3 teams. The quality of the conference is how good the middle is, and the ACC is not good. Finishing .500 (in conf) no longer has the prestige it used to. Where .500 meant a dance invite. Now, you might get an NIT bid.

There are plenty of good programs that recruit (more than guards), that develop an inside game and every other year, can give the bigger boys a good fight. We play with a forward at Center. Great player, but in wrong position. You can beat the unc charlottes like that, but not the Dukes, Florida states, etc - unless your guards make everything. Even with the guards, we don’t seem to develop shooters. Not since Gabe D has one developed.

Will we ever dominate the NCAA? Perhaps not. But, we should be able to feel good about being in the mix for an NCAA Bid every year. Might be a 10 seed, might be a 3 - but still in the mix.

IMO, the right coach could do that. Not sure who that is, but I am sure they are out there. Maybe they come and do such a great job that a big name pulls them away - or maybe we find the Dabo of basketball who wants to stay.

Whoever leads them, I am behind the team. 11 years is enough of a period to determine if CBB can get us there.

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To stop playing like a Tommy Bowden coached team.***


Jan 31, 2021, 7:22 PM



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Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.


Happy could be a good coach.needs a fire under his a$$***


Jan 31, 2021, 7:39 PM



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Re: What should we reasonably expect for Clemson basketball?


Jan 31, 2021, 8:33 PM

I think it is reasonable to expect to be 1 of 68 teams who make the tournament....every year. Sort of implies that we are ranked in the top 68, huh.

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Class of ‘71. Went through “rat season” and glad I did.


Re: What should we reasonably expect for Clemson basketball?


Jan 31, 2021, 8:47 PM

We should expect to make the NCAA tournament most years. If you are not making the dance then you are not relevant. We should expect to make the tournament. Brownell is never going to get us there. Offensively, his teams are the equivalent of running the triple option in football. That’s not going to cut it. He does not recruit the AAU circuit which is where the top HS talent is playing. I get it, there is a lot of unscrupulous stuff that happens around the whole AAU scene and I love that he runs a clean program. But running a clean program is not enough to keep him around.

There is no excitement around our program and there never will be until we can be relevant which means making the NCAA. Clemson basketball is like a football program that never makes a bowl game. When you are that bad for as long s we have been, you can expect complete apathy.

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UCLA's Wooden era, as the bare minimum****


Jan 31, 2021, 8:49 PM



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Re: What should we reasonably expect for Clemson basketball?


Feb 1, 2021, 12:15 AM

Clemson fans should not accept getting blown out by conf. opponents that have stronger basketball images or those with whom we are near parity of sorts. Losing 4 of 5 consecutive games by over 24 points is unacceptable. Has the team quit--or the coaches? this staff could go to and rec. center or park where kids gather to play hoops and find a few shooters that are more accurate than those they are playing in Orange and Purple now. This is the worse Tiger team for shooting that I have seen--since they restarted their season. We don't have to win them all but we need to be competitive, play smart and hustle. In past 2 weeks, the Tigers have not show those capabilities. Play guys that will do that and are willing to show up as Clemson Tigers. It will not get easier in coming week.

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