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So we don't mind having a building named Tillman but Nike...
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So we don't mind having a building named Tillman but Nike...


Sep 4, 2018, 10:47 AM

So, Tillman is a historically confirmed racist. By the way, I majored in English and History at Clemson (class of 93) and am a native of Charleston, SC, where my dad is a local historian and tour guide owner/operator. Just needed to drop some cred. We continue to have a building named after a controversial figure but Nike picks up an American, who exercised his constitutional rights.. vs. a terrorist to african americans, who was granted absolution, because he gave some money to the university. Help me with this logic!! Who is more American? the one who hated other americans(african americans) or the one who is believes they are standing for the rights of oppressed americans? Help me ya'll. without calling m a coot and then without telling me to take it to the lounge, or erasing my post....

Reasonable answers only please

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Re: So we don't mind having a building named Tillman but Nike...


Sep 4, 2018, 10:49 AM

.

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"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


And yes, I come from a family of generations of veterans...


Sep 4, 2018, 10:49 AM

and I stand during the national anthem. Just FYI

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Re: So we don't mind having a building named Tillman but Nike...


Sep 4, 2018, 10:54 AM

I hear ya man. I may get some down votes for saying it, but I have no problem with what Nike did. Peaceful demonstrations are as American as hot dogs and apple pie.

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Agreed!!


Sep 4, 2018, 5:07 PM

I can't think of anything less harmful and more american than a peaceful protest.

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Great Post


Sep 4, 2018, 10:56 AM

I would give you a dollar, but George Washington owned slaves.

SC Code § 10-1-165

(A) No Revolutionary War, War of 1812, Mexican War, War Between the States, Spanish-American War, World War I, World War II, Korean War, Vietnam War, Persian Gulf War, Native American, or African-American History monuments or memorials erected on public property of the State or any of its political subdivisions may be relocated, removed, disturbed, or altered. No street, bridge, structure, park, preserve, reserve, or other public area of the State or any of its political subdivisions dedicated in memory of or named for any historic figure or historic event may be renamed or rededicated. No person may prevent the public body responsible for the monument or memorial from taking proper measures and exercising proper means for the protection, preservation, and care of these monuments, memorials, or nameplates.

(B) The provisions of this section may only be amended or repealed upon passage of an act which has received a two-thirds vote on the third reading of the bill in each branch of the General Assembly.

HISTORY: 2000 Act No. 292, Section 3.

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null


Re: Great Post


Sep 4, 2018, 11:03 AM

It would take a whole lot more george Washington's than you probably have, considering how many years my descendants worked for free... But look carefully at the currency, I believe there are pictures of grain and crops, representing- the labor class of the time- slaves... so george might be featured in the middle, but he is sitting on a pile of slave generated wealth and prosperity....

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Who made slaves of your grandchildren?***


Sep 4, 2018, 11:11 AM



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true: descendants=ancestors, mistake


Sep 4, 2018, 11:19 AM

thanks for pointing this out!! i appreciate it

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No problem. Keep me updated on the reparation crusade...


Sep 4, 2018, 11:29 AM

I'm part Irish so I want my cut.

My cousins who are half Chinese would also like to be kept in the loop.

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Re: No problem. Keep me updated on the reparation crusade...


Sep 4, 2018, 11:36 AM

Me too Scottish/Irish I want in on these reparations

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Go Tigers! Once A Tiger Always A Tiger


Im English


Sep 4, 2018, 12:27 PM

So I need to pay up for all the free stuff I got off of the backs of slaves...or shot because my gggggrand dad was a limey. But he didnt get here till the mid 1800s so im not sure its really myfault, but I dont pay my fair share in taxes because I have a college education, so I need to pay anyway.

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I look white, but I’m part Native American...


Sep 4, 2018, 12:51 PM

So I wanna chunk of land and some dough...



TIA

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Re: Im English


Sep 4, 2018, 3:56 PM [ in reply to Im English ]

Limey's are the WORST.

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Re: No problem. Keep me updated on the reparation crusade...


Sep 4, 2018, 12:49 PM [ in reply to Re: No problem. Keep me updated on the reparation crusade... ]

So the Irish were enslaved and forced to America?

No, I think you’re referring to prejudices Irish people have endured and relating it to African-Americans’ subjected racism. However, the Irish were free people that came to this country on their own accord and have enjoyed the civil liberties that make us Americans. Don’t pretend it’s the same.

Oh, and I’m an Irish descendant as well...

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Re: No problem. Keep me updated on the reparation crusade...


Sep 4, 2018, 1:21 PM

Most Irish the cane were indentured servants and many were treated very poorly as they were not considered a life time investment.

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Go Tigers! Once A Tiger Always A Tiger


Re: Great Post


Sep 4, 2018, 11:34 AM [ in reply to Re: Great Post ]

History is history.You can’t change it with your feelings or Nike money.Hate of the American way of life isn’t American for any one.Of course you can protest peacefully any way you want to but no one living today had any thing to do with slavery,get over it and move on.What would it help to change a bldg name.Would it make thugs quit being thugs? I doubt it .But you keep on keeping on and remember the flag flys for all of us including you and yours

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Re: So we don't mind having a building named Tillman but Nike...


Sep 4, 2018, 10:57 AM

Disrespecting our flag is not an act that deserves any reward. Period.

Kapernuck doesn't stand for anything other than misguided protest. Anyone who wears a Che Guevara shirt deserves no respect. He's no better than Tillman, IMO.

HTH

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Screw Calford.


Kneeling in peaceful protest is not disrespecting the flag


Sep 4, 2018, 11:00 AM

Burning or defacing it would be an example of disrespecting the flag

If you want to hyperbole kneeling to fit your agenda, then so be it, but it’s not disrespecting the flag.

It’s expressing your freedom of speech as an American, the foundation of which it stands for.

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Re: Kneeling in peaceful protest is not disrespecting the flag


Sep 4, 2018, 11:06 AM

Kneeling when we play our anthem is not disrespecting the flag? LOL You don't get to make the rules that suit your agenda, btw.

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Screw Calford.


Re: Kneeling in peaceful protest is not disrespecting the flag


Sep 4, 2018, 11:08 AM


LOL You don't get to make the rules that suit your agenda, btw.



But apparently you do?

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Re: Kneeling in peaceful protest is not disrespecting the flag


Sep 4, 2018, 11:23 AM
Kapernuck.jpg(109.7 K)

He disrespects those who made the ultimate sacrifice, for starters.

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Screw Calford.


Re: Kneeling in peaceful protest is not disrespecting the flag


Sep 4, 2018, 12:30 PM

That’s your own subjective interpretation of his kneeling. You’re like the people who got upset with MLK for marching across a bridge in Selma, Alabama in protest.

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Re: Kneeling in peaceful protest is not disrespecting the flag


Sep 4, 2018, 1:25 PM

at least that was on his OWN time

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Fiat Justitia et Pereat Mundus


Re: Kneeling in peaceful protest is not disrespecting the flag


Sep 4, 2018, 12:29 PM [ in reply to Re: Kneeling in peaceful protest is not disrespecting the flag ]

I lol’d in Subway when reading this reply. Thank you!

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Wait, why do *you* get to make those rules?


Sep 4, 2018, 11:10 AM [ in reply to Re: Kneeling in peaceful protest is not disrespecting the flag ]

A person's symbolic act can be interpreted in a million different ways, and it would seem the person performing the symbolic act's words are the only way to say what is *meant* by it.

So yeah, you can think it's disrespecting the flag (though I'd argue it's way more disrespected in a million other ways), but the poster ALSO gets to interpret the act as well.

So no, he doesn't get to make the rules. And neither do you.

Ain't that grand?

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Re: Kneeling in peaceful protest is not disrespecting the flag


Sep 4, 2018, 11:36 AM [ in reply to Re: Kneeling in peaceful protest is not disrespecting the flag ]

Your opinion not every ones

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Re: Kneeling in peaceful protest is not disrespecting the flag


Sep 4, 2018, 11:07 AM [ in reply to Kneeling in peaceful protest is not disrespecting the flag ]

GOOD LUCK WITH THAT IDIOTIC VIEW.

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Re: Kneeling in peaceful protest is not disrespecting the flag


Sep 4, 2018, 11:19 AM [ in reply to Kneeling in peaceful protest is not disrespecting the flag ]

Please leave our country if you have no clue about the flag and the National Anthem. You obviously have learned nothing in your life.

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Re: Kneeling in peaceful protest is not disrespecting the flag


Sep 4, 2018, 11:30 AM

No, I'm staying. Make me leave.

Nanna nanna boo boo.

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Re: Kneeling in peaceful protest is not disrespecting the flag


Sep 4, 2018, 11:51 AM [ in reply to Re: Kneeling in peaceful protest is not disrespecting the flag ]

Who is "our?" We all migrated, colonized or stole the land, or came over as slaves to get the American identity we have. Unless, UNLESS, you are a full blooded native american. So who is "our?"

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No U***


Sep 4, 2018, 1:52 PM [ in reply to Re: Kneeling in peaceful protest is not disrespecting the flag ]



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Re: Kneeling in peaceful protest is not disrespecting the flag


Sep 4, 2018, 1:52 PM [ in reply to Kneeling in peaceful protest is not disrespecting the flag ]

Burning is actually the only approved method (by statute) to properly dispose of a used American flag. Technically, defacing the flag or failing to acknowledge it appropriately (kneeling instead of standing when the colors are presented with the anthem) is to disrespect that symbol of our nation.

It is also an expression of open disagreement with some policy or other, and as such a 1st Amendment privilege.

But there are other means

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Re: Kneeling in peaceful protest is not disrespecting the flag


Sep 4, 2018, 2:11 PM [ in reply to Kneeling in peaceful protest is not disrespecting the flag ]

Not using the NFL stage for a PERSONAL protest. He got what he asked for. He is destroying the NFL and is no more than an entitled liberal. Go get a job in Hollywood. Maybe a Sports analyst with CNN. Just go away or go march in the streets with a permit.

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CUTIGERTIM
Clemson Rat 1968
Clemson fan forever


Re: So we don't mind having a building named Tillman but Nike...


Sep 4, 2018, 11:04 AM [ in reply to Re: So we don't mind having a building named Tillman but Nike... ]

“He’s no better than Tillman”



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Re: So we don't mind having a building named Tillman but Nike...


Sep 4, 2018, 11:07 AM

Che Guevara was a cold-blooded murderer.

Hope that clarifies things for you.

Now go punch someone in your new Nikes.

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Screw Calford.


You may well disagree with kneeling


Sep 4, 2018, 11:05 AM [ in reply to Re: So we don't mind having a building named Tillman but Nike... ]

You may think he is misguided at best. You may even think that kneeling is disrespectful to the flag and an affront to patriotism itself.

However, I can't believe you'd really think someone who does so in the name of (even if you think him misguided or wrong) opposing perceived oppression is on the same level as someone openly advocating oppression itself.

That seems a strange equation to me.

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Re: You may well disagree with kneeling


Sep 4, 2018, 11:09 AM

Just going to leave this here:
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/11574968/lamarr-houston-confirms-colin-kaepernick-used-n-word-chicago-bears-win-san-francisco-49ers

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Re: You may well disagree with kneeling


Sep 4, 2018, 11:17 AM

Are there any more people going to come forward to show how racist this “icon” is using the “n” word

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Go Tigers! Once A Tiger Always A Tiger


Re: You may well disagree with kneeling


Sep 4, 2018, 11:22 AM

Keep in mind as well, he's mixed (half white/half black) raised by 2 white parents in a white culture....though many seem to mistake him as 100% African American in regards to the kneeling controversy. I don't see how he can be viewed as being "behind oppression", when 2 years prior to the kneeling, he was fined by the NFL for using slang terms that are viewed as racist and oppressive (which he obviously denies, but Lamar Houston confirmed he did).

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Probably before he started dating the Muslim SJW


Sep 4, 2018, 11:24 AM [ in reply to Re: You may well disagree with kneeling ]

he married. She's the one who pushed him to demonstrate and take a stand to support her pet causes.

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That was hilarious given the context...


Sep 4, 2018, 11:14 AM [ in reply to Re: So we don't mind having a building named Tillman but Nike... ]

and especially stuff like this thread where we're throwing other historical figures under the bus.

"The Negro is indolent and lazy, and spends his money on frivolities, whereas. the European is forward-looking, organized, and intelligent." -- Che Guevara.

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Re: That was hilarious given the context...


Sep 4, 2018, 1:12 PM

To be fair, this quote was said early on in his life, before he became the Che Guevara that we know today. He pushed for schools in Cuba to be racially integrated before the United States did. He left Cuba to fight for black liberation against white colonialism in Angola, Mozambique, and the Congo. He spoke out against apartheid in South Africa, even though Britain still supported it. Nelson Mandela spoke fondly of him in the context to black liberation.

Sooo, there’s that.

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Coot! (So sorry, couldn’t help myself!) ??***


Sep 4, 2018, 10:58 AM



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Re: Coot! (So sorry, couldn’t help myself!) ??***


Sep 4, 2018, 2:15 PM

He is not a coot. They would not even support such a matter. He is a subversive liberal entitlement driven anti American protestor. He is out for himself.

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CUTIGERTIM
Clemson Rat 1968
Clemson fan forever


Coot! (So sorry, couldn’t help myself!) ??***


Sep 4, 2018, 10:58 AM



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Re: Coot! (So sorry, couldn’t help myself!) ??***


Sep 4, 2018, 11:11 AM

Notice how Kappy is working ha. Evidently real Americans find it troubling

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Coot! (So sorry, couldn’t help myself!) ??***


Sep 4, 2018, 10:58 AM



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Coot! (So sorry, couldn’t help myself!) ??***


Sep 4, 2018, 10:58 AM



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Coot! (So sorry, couldn’t help myself!) ??***


Sep 4, 2018, 10:58 AM



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if It weren’t for Tillman Clemson wouldn’t exist


Sep 4, 2018, 11:01 AM

He got the legislature to accept Clemson’s will. How much of a revisionist do you want to be? It was what it was.

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I don't want to revise, just equal respect...


Sep 4, 2018, 11:05 AM

for what is going on with Nike. We are wanting to ditch them because of Kap, when our Sh@@T STINKS historically. We are not going to agree with our figure heads throughout history and commerce. It's just hypocritical and stupid.

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We aren't ditching Nike.


Sep 4, 2018, 11:13 AM

We signed a contract and will follow contract law.

BTW - here's another law.

SC Code § 10-1-165 (2012)

(A) No Revolutionary War, War of 1812, Mexican War, War Between the States, Spanish-American War, World War I, World War II, Korean War, Vietnam War, Persian Gulf War, Native American, or African-American History monuments or memorials erected on public property of the State or any of its political subdivisions may be relocated, removed, disturbed, or altered. No street, bridge, structure, park, preserve, reserve, or other public area of the State or any of its political subdivisions dedicated in memory of or named for any historic figure or historic event may be renamed or rededicated. No person may prevent the public body responsible for the monument or memorial from taking proper measures and exercising proper means for the protection, preservation, and care of these monuments, memorials, or nameplates.

(B) The provisions of this section may only be amended or repealed upon passage of an act which has received a two-thirds vote on the third reading of the bill in each branch of the General Assembly.

HISTORY: 2000 Act No. 292, Section 3.

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null


Does that mean Napoleon was


Sep 4, 2018, 11:07 AM [ in reply to if It weren’t for Tillman Clemson wouldn’t exist ]

Great because he sold us Louisiana (and a few extra acres)? ;)

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Good god. Just let me die before they


Sep 4, 2018, 11:08 AM

rename it South Carolina Agriculture Tech or some #### because Thomas Green Clemson wasn't woke in the 19th Century.

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Oh, NO! No, you didn't


Sep 4, 2018, 11:13 AM

Just suggest Clemson be renamed S.C.A.T. Oh...to the hail NO! :)

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Re: Good god. Just let me die before they


Sep 4, 2018, 11:14 AM [ in reply to Good god. Just let me die before they ]

you know that is not the argument here. the argument is about how we are getting up in arms about one controversial figure getting a deal with Nike and another( a racist) getting a statue, a building and his name on my degree... I love Clemson and I'm NOT asking for the names to be changed. I just want us to feel the weight of double standards to humble our crazy responses.

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I know it's not the argument YET


Sep 4, 2018, 11:19 AM

but I also know that SJWs have never been placated. Every time the sane give ground, they demand more. So give them Tillman Hall and they'll come for Clemson next.

See the statues. First it was confederate war memorials, and when we started taking them down, they moved on to the founding fathers. Keep digging and eventually nobody passes a purity test...that's the point of the purity test.

The "woke" are being used to keep us divided by race while simultaneously destroying our shared history so that we feel no loyalty or camaraderie with one another.

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His name was on it when you chose to attend..............


Sep 4, 2018, 11:26 AM [ in reply to Re: Good god. Just let me die before they ]

and we are not upset that Kaepernick got a deal. We are pissed that NIKE elected to give him a deal.Nike diecided to tell half the country, "Screw you". I give them their right to do that. And we can stop buying all their stuff. And anybody that does not want to attend Clemson because of a name on a building, can go to Minnesota, where they recently said you can be expelled for calling someone by the wrong gender....To quote an ESPN show host, "The guy is a fraud".

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Re: So we don't mind having a building named Tillman but Nike...


Sep 4, 2018, 11:15 AM

To make the antifa and BLM crowd happy we'll name the porta-pottys in Lot 10 Kaepernick Hall so as to commemorate him everytime we take a shitz

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Tillman's racist beliefs shouldn't invalidate the


Sep 4, 2018, 11:19 AM

important role he played in Clemson existing.

That's the problem with people today - they can't separate one aspect of a person's identity/politics/beliefs from another.

I have no problem with one of our buildings being named after Tillman. I don't like the fact that he was racist, but that doesn't make his important contribution to Clemson any less significant or valuable, and having his name on the building doesn't make Clemson, its employees, or its alumni racist.

Trying to revise history on this basis is short-sighted and quite frankly, immature.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: Tillman's racist beliefs shouldn't invalidate the


Sep 4, 2018, 11:28 AM

Not denying the role he played. I am not for changing the name of things or taking away his contributions, but it still ok to let Tillman's full story teach and give us more that we need to learn about being broken human beings who do good and bad. He could do more for Clemson by keeping the name but giving and acknowledging and owning the full story.

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So


Sep 4, 2018, 11:31 AM

an historically factual plaque about Ben Tillman on Harvey Gantt Circle would appease you to some extent?

Sounds like a good compromise to me.

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null


Take your problem to the other Board.


Sep 4, 2018, 11:21 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNsAqmDqU5E

And no one cares about your liberal "creditials".




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Re: So we don't mind having a building named Tillman but Nike...


Sep 4, 2018, 11:22 AM

You are not offering an apples to apples comparison. While I don't agree with Tillman, his beliefs, or his name being on Clemson's most notorious piece of architecture, he didn't disrespect the flag and the ideals for which many people sacrificed. Not to mention that getting lost in your argument is the fact that not all actions taken by the police are malicious or racist and should not be painted with such a broad brush by the mob with which Kapernick(sp?) and you obviously place great emphasis.

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Dude, being a militant racist does


Sep 4, 2018, 11:52 AM

Disrespect the flag and the ideals this country stands for. You know that, right?

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Re: Dude, being a militant racist does


Sep 4, 2018, 12:16 PM

Depends on the century you are talking about. As a historian, the OP, and you have to know that as society changes, so do core beliefs. Regardless of his vile core beliefs, Tillman thought he was right and he stood by what many people fought for during the civil war. Obviously, we are way past those racist core beliefs now, although some ######## still stand by them. Kaepernick, on the other hand, is doing it in reverse by disrespecting the flag to move his core belief forward (one that every police action against POC are racially motivated), which is wrong. There are better ways to do this.

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I'm 100% American


Sep 4, 2018, 11:23 AM

I'm all for peaceful protest.

if you want to avoid Tllman hall and/or clemson for stuff that happened 200 years ago, I support you.

if some 1 wants to avoid Nike for stuff that happened 2 hrs ago, I support them too.

welcome to America

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Geville Tiger on Clemson football , "Dabo's only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: So we don't mind having a building named Tillman but Nike...


Sep 4, 2018, 11:27 AM

The cleansing of any distasteful history. I’d suggest we continue to teach history in an unbiased manner. Even more importantly I would suggest that we focus on the future

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We do Chicken right...it's not just for frying anymore!


Re: So we don't mind having a building named Tillman but Nike...


Sep 4, 2018, 11:28 AM

Instead of continually harping on the past which we have no control over

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We do Chicken right...it's not just for frying anymore!


Re: So we don't mind having a building named Tillman but Nike...


Sep 4, 2018, 11:28 AM [ in reply to Re: So we don't mind having a building named Tillman but Nike... ]

Instead of continually harping on the past which we have no control over

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

We do Chicken right...it's not just for frying anymore!


Great post. Almost every white person


Sep 4, 2018, 11:29 AM

was racist then but Tillman went beyond that. He led a murderous campaign against blacks with intimidation and violence.

Rename Tillman Hall, Harvey Gantt Hall.

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Re: Great post. Almost every white person


Sep 4, 2018, 11:31 AM

900 Black babies are aborted every day in the United States. Tillman still working his magic huh

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Re: Great post. Almost every white person


Sep 4, 2018, 11:33 AM [ in reply to Great post. Almost every white person ]

The street address of Tillman Hall is Harvey Gantt Circle.

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null


Or better yet, keep the Tillman name for the significant


Sep 4, 2018, 11:33 AM [ in reply to Great post. Almost every white person ]

role he played in the founding of our university, and name a newly constructed building after Harvey Gantt.

Why does it have to be either-or? Both are significant figures in the history of Clemson.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


I just don't want it to hurt our football


Sep 4, 2018, 12:02 PM

recruiting, and it could in the future, seriously.

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Re: Great post. Almost every white person


Sep 4, 2018, 11:39 AM [ in reply to Great post. Almost every white person ]

HBrown and other politically correct individuals, are you a veteran ? Have you ever been to a funeral for a service or police officer killed in the line of duty ? Have you ever looked into the eyes of the children of those lost in the line of duty ? Have you ever watched a disabled service member try to stand when he has no limbs, only metal and plastic ? Have you ever seen a service member with a severely deformed face out in the public when he knows everyone is staring at him ? Slavery was a terrible thing but you nor anyone else can change the past. Live in the present and make it a better place. By the way, since you and your family are self proclaimed historians, is there not a statue of a militant black man in Charleston whose sole intent was to kill white people ? You and I know know the answer.

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Did you read his background


Sep 4, 2018, 11:49 AM

Or were you in a hurry to 'landblast' him? He put it out there...his family's military history, etc.

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Yes... I am a pastor and so I did some funerals at arlington


Sep 4, 2018, 12:12 PM [ in reply to Re: Great post. Almost every white person ]

So to answer your question... yes- a few times when I was in baltimore pastoring.

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It is not my place to decide but I like your suggestion.


Sep 4, 2018, 11:58 AM [ in reply to Great post. Almost every white person ]

Harvey Gantt(sp) was a great man. Tillman was just caught up what I can best refer to as a sign of the times but that doesn't excuse it by any means. I am sorry for the way minorities were treated then and even though I wasn't even alive I like to think I would've been different but there is no way to know for certain. All I can do is live my life in a way that is without prejudice. My best friend, I played a lot of sports growing up save for baseball because my depth perception really sucked, so many of my friends were minorities including Mark who's brother went on to be over the NAACP in the area. Mark and I did everything together. We were inseparable in high school and he was always welcome in my family and vice versa.

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Re: So we don't mind having a building named Tillman but Nike...


Sep 4, 2018, 11:32 AM

All the early buildings at Clemson were made with African American and white convict labor. BTW, maybe only one of them remains. Regretfully, one of our founders actually used the “N” word 150 years ago. However, I need to point out that the horseshoe buildings at SCAR were all made with 100% African American slave labor. People held in bondage and beaten to complete their duty under cruel task masters. Moat of these buildings at SCAR are all still standing. SCAR has a long and regretful history of using slaves for labor. Having the name “Gamecock” as their mascot is disgraceful. Thomas Sumter (the gamecock) actually bred some of the slaves who toiled to make the USC horseshoe. I cannot understand how any current African American student at SCAR can be asked to say the horrific and demeaning name "gamecock" or to walk near the horseshoe without being sickened by thoughts of sadness for the cruelty SCAR bestowed on his ancestors. So, you can chose whom to despise the most, a school never associated with slavery (Clemson) or a school built on the backs of free African labor (SCAR).

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Re: So we don't mind having a building named Tillman but Nike...


Sep 4, 2018, 11:39 AM

Great use of whataboutism

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Re: So we don't mind having a building named Tillman but Nike...


Sep 4, 2018, 11:32 AM

This is not a free speech issue. Kapernick is a paid actor and when he is wearing that uniform, he is at work. As such, his free speech rights are put on the shelf. He is representing a team and a league who have specific rules and regulations he is to follow. He was paid quite handsomely, I might add. So he not only dishonored our nation's flag, which is reason enough for me to never support him at any level; he also dishonored his team and his league. Explain to me why that merits any positive recognition? The executives at Nike are stupid. There is no reason for a tennis shoe maker to be making political statements. Having done so, I have far stronger convictions than they do and will not support their company. I own many of their produces and will not throw them away, though they'll bring me little joy from this point forward. But in the future, I'll find another shoe vendor.

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Re: So we don't mind having a building named Tillman but Nike...


Sep 4, 2018, 1:18 PM

THIS *** It came with the job when he signed his CONTRACT. The boss tells me to do something I do it, or look for another job. In fact a supervisor tried to pressure and bribe me to falsify an incident report. I refused and immediately looked for and found a new job. As they say, you plant your flag and take your chances.

I alos find it hypocritical that he will sign a HUGE contract that is supported by people working for SLAVE wages. Have you seen how these people live ?

Also, the Scots-Irish of the mid 1800's were essentially indentured servants. Coutless hours 6 days a week, child labor, children losing fingers, limbs and lives working in the mills. The plight of coal miners, which existed well into the 20th century, so northerners could stay warm in the winter.

Seems your history lessons are rather selective.

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This should be on the P&R board.


Sep 4, 2018, 11:32 AM

Don’t junk up the Tiger Football board w this.

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Re: So we don't mind having a building named Tillman but Nike...


Sep 4, 2018, 11:34 AM

You do know, through your vast education and all, that in the 17-1800’s that was people’s way of life. No where in the world were blacks treated equally. In fact, in many Arab countries blacks are still slaves. I’m not saying anything that happened four generations ago was right, but people evolved in their thinking. Blacks weren’t just mistreated in the south, they were the “help” and mostly paid with room and board in many European countries. The Irish were considered lower than the black man, the polish and many different people went to outlying areas and started their own little towns because they were not generally accepted. At some point the history will become just that, something that happened well before any of us had a say in the matter

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Go Tigers! Once A Tiger Always A Tiger


Re: So we don't mind having a building named Tillman but Nike...


Sep 4, 2018, 11:44 AM

Does it make it right because it happened back then or is it still wrong or evil in today's assessment. Was what Hitler did to the Jews wrong? Tell Jews, they shouldn't have a memorial of the holocaust or that it needs to not be remembered as much. Just recently they prosecuted some war criminals from the Nazi times. Should they go free because it happened a long time ago? If Tillman was still alive, would he be set free because it happened so long ago? Just wondering.

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Re: So we don't mind having a building named Tillman but Nike...


Sep 4, 2018, 11:52 AM

Is that what would make everyone happy and this issue of naming a building to be solved. We need to find the dependents of Tillman and hold them responsible for what their great, great, great, great... grandfather did. When has enough time passed. History is to be learned from, not repeated and relived

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Go Tigers! Once A Tiger Always A Tiger


He literally said "I'm not saying anything that happened


Sep 4, 2018, 11:57 AM [ in reply to Re: So we don't mind having a building named Tillman but Nike... ]

four generations ago was right."


I think what he may have been trying to say (and correct me jean if I'm wrong) is that we look at history through today's lens, and we fail to consider that today's lens is the result of the progress we've made. Yes, the United States participated in the slave trade. Yes, slavery is an immoral, unethical disgusting institution that denies people their humanity. HOWEVER, the United States was also among the first nations/cultures to recognize what I just said. That slavery is a moral evil and should be eradicated.

We cannot appreciate how far we have come if we forget where we started. This focus on the ugly and negative in history and demands of atonement and vengeance only serve to impede the progress we could continue to make. Indeed, they threaten to reverse some of the progress we've already made.

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Re: He literally said "I'm not saying anything that happened


Sep 4, 2018, 12:00 PM

Yes, thank you

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Go Tigers! Once A Tiger Always A Tiger


Re: So we don't mind having a building named Tillman but Nike...


Sep 4, 2018, 11:35 AM

It is absolutely astonishing to me the number of people who are brainwashed into so angrily believing kneeling during the anthem is some horrible act of disrespect to the country.

If the person doing the kneeling says that's not the point of the kneeling, then how is this even an argument? Especially, when he did it at the request of a military service member?

God forbid we draw some extra attention to the problems this country has and try to fix them.

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Re: So we don't mind having a building named Tillman but Nike...


Sep 4, 2018, 12:06 PM

That’s hard to do in today’s America when we have been so clearly divided by race, wealth, religion etc. We as a Nation have declined over 50 years. Our children and grandchildren are taught to be racist and seek segregation again

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Go Tigers! Once A Tiger Always A Tiger


Re: So we don't mind having a building named Tillman but Nike...


Sep 4, 2018, 1:29 PM [ in reply to Re: So we don't mind having a building named Tillman but Nike... ]

Well it offends me for someone to kneel during the National Anthem. I thought we weren't allowed to offend Anyone.

I would add, I need a safe space at nfl games. About 10 rows up at the 50 yard line should about right.

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Re: So we don't mind having a building named Tillman but Nike...


Sep 4, 2018, 11:44 AM

By modern standards LBJ is a racist, should we tear up the Civil Rights act he pushed forward and signed?

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Love that post HBROWN!***


Sep 4, 2018, 11:47 AM



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Re: So we don't mind having a building named Tillman but Nike...


Sep 4, 2018, 11:48 AM

You say Tillman was a terrorist and a hater of "African Americans? "

A) That's pretty strong language to use considering the circumstances and the overall reality of the time. It's pretty bold of you to draw such conclusions of one's life and one's soul based on cherry-picked written words in books, in a racially charged society, several generations removed. I wish I could come back 150 years from now and read what they say about "me" and how they view the times I lived in.

B) Your usage of "African Americans" and "other Americans" to "non-Americans" is incorrect.

C) Who's making the name controversial?

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Re: So we don't mind having a building named Tillman but Nike...


Sep 4, 2018, 1:19 PM

That's not an exaggeration, though. He was a terrorist, and he did hate black folks. Tillman's Red Shirts were as bad as the KKK ever was.

"A white supremacist who opposed civil rights for blacks, Tillman led a paramilitary group of Red Shirts during South Carolina's violent 1876 election. On the floor of the U.S. Senate, he frequently ridiculed blacks, and boasted of having helped to kill them during that campaign."

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Hey look man its simple what Tillman did was


Sep 4, 2018, 11:48 AM

normal back then but it ain't normal now but what Nike is doin ain't even normal now so maybe you can just tell your dad to crack jokes to Ohio yankees and make sure the horse doesn't get spooked and leave the critical thinking to the rest of us.

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It was normal to be racist, it wasn't normal


Sep 4, 2018, 11:59 AM

to lead murderous raids against blacks.

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Re: So we don't mind having a building named Tillman but Nike...


Sep 4, 2018, 12:01 PM

Tillman is not something I have a choice on whether or not I'll purchase. I don't agree with racism. Tillman no longer stands for that, just like Washington no longer stands for it. Changing the name of a building or taking the name off of it doesn't erase history. Tillman was no different than a lot of wealthy people during his time

Nike, I do have a choice. I think Nike did something stupid by supporting someone who uses someone else's platform to cry about something that has already been proven does not exist. He sacrificed nothing because he was already on his way out as a failed QB. He found an opportunity to get noticed again and has succeeded. The only thing I admire is his sense of capitalism - even though he stupidly supports a communist/socialist.

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#### you, grow a pair and enjoy the history you allegedly


Sep 4, 2018, 12:18 PM

studied.

If in fact you majored in history you would know it was a different time with different principles. I'm sick of you ultra-liberals trying to re-write or erase what happened in the past.

Now get back to cooking my fries.

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Re: #### you, grow a pair and enjoy the history you allegedly


Sep 4, 2018, 12:47 PM

I'm the senior pastor of a multiethnic church in Charlotte now (Christ Central Church). I'm not a liberal, not living in a divided community and I am around people of different political parties, and races talking through and working through issues. We have mainly conservatives I would guess, with almost an equal number of folks on the left. Now tell me why would you disrespect me like that, by asking me to grow a pair when you don't know me or my story?

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Re: #### you, grow a pair and enjoy the history you allegedly


Sep 4, 2018, 1:05 PM

My guess is he read a few posts you've made, and extracted a non-favorable opinion of you without comprehensively considering your background, your environment, your story, you. Funny how that happens. I guess at least you can still tell your story.

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I appreciate what you do and thank you for it.


Sep 4, 2018, 5:01 PM [ in reply to Re: #### you, grow a pair and enjoy the history you allegedly ]

From 1960 to 1984 I was a member of Myers Park Baptist Church and was Baptized there. I did not mean to insult you.

However, your comments implied that history should be re-written and that what happened in the past should be disregarded. I get today's climate, but history must not be re-written.

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"Merika"


Sep 4, 2018, 12:40 PM

As Hank Hill once stated, "What kind of country do I live in, where I can only hate a man if he is white." I don't dislike Colin for his stance, his voice, his charities; I dislike him because of these socks. Period. And another "collusion" case, lol. Collusion is not a crime, but Johnny Manzel should jump on that bandwagon if Colin wins any $$$$.



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Re: So we don't mind having a building named Tillman but Nike...


Sep 4, 2018, 12:47 PM

Does Kap have any eligibility left? Does Tillman have any great great grandkids who can possibly play offensive line? Because frankly if not I really don't want to see all this crap here. We get it you're making a point but there is indeed a place for that. That used to be one of the great things about sports, we could watch it and for a great many of us social issues, color barrier whatever were not thought of but rather enjoying the game. Social justice Warriors are ruining this frikken planet

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If you call making a profit off of a lie “American”


Sep 4, 2018, 1:00 PM

Then I guess Kaepernick is as American as #### Cheney and Bernie Madoff.

Literally, no one is saying Kaepernick can’t say what he wants - even if it is garbage, racist, and a lie. People are complaining that they should not be forced to support such a dipstick through their NFL related purchases.

I’m down for changing the name of Tillman Hall. We must have someone on campus who has done something important since then. A WWII vet or something.

But Kaepernicks allegations (about those mean racist police) have been proven to be a lie through a Harvard study. How would he like it if some famous nitwit made money from saying an entire group of people are thugs, criminals, and bad for their community?

Plus he’s a mediocre QB - if you’re only ok at your job, you don’t get as much leeway as the boss’s favorite worker. He should know that but he’s an entitled dipstick.

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Re: If you call making a profit off of a lie “American”


Sep 4, 2018, 1:12 PM

The Building Formerly Know As!

I am decended from the Scotish Highland McDonalds who were massacred in 1622 by the Campbells. I am waiting on my reparations check and the renaming all buildings, streets, colleges and Soups!

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You pansya$$ crybabies make me sick


Sep 4, 2018, 1:05 PM

This country is a melting pot of all races and cultures that despite its problems of the past & present is still the BEST NATION IN THE WORLD!!!

My Scot Irish/ Cherokee (Native American) heritage has more suffering and unfair mistreatment as any...the Trail of Tears was genocide... and that was terrible but I don’t get one penny for what they suffered, nor should I.

I’m PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN AND STAND FOR MY NATIONAL ANTHEM because we set a course different from the rest of the world and continue to change when necessary through democratic processes of The Law. If Nike wants to get involved in making political changes, they have equal rights as anyone to use those democratic processes of the law without inciting animus against the USA.

SCREW NIKE AND ALL THE KNEELERS THAT DISRESPECT OUR FLAG!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Sadly, we are unable to change our past...


Sep 4, 2018, 1:14 PM

but we can impact our present.

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Re: So we don't mind having a building named Tillman but Nike...


Sep 4, 2018, 2:04 PM

In the context of history, Tillman’s views were, at the time, widely held and widely used to establish public policy, not only in the South but also in the North as well as in many places in the rest of the world. Were those concepts any less wrong then than they are now? The answer is no. But we still cannot equate Kap and Tillman in this debate because of that historical context.

So make another argument.

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Confederate monuments are just participation trophies


Sep 4, 2018, 2:09 PM

for racist losers, same for anything that's named after them.

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It’s a visceral reaction to Nike...


Sep 4, 2018, 2:09 PM

It’s happening now and I can see it. It’s also something I can do something about - with minimal effort - by looking at Nike stuff last when considering a purchase.

Yes - we’ve heard Tillman was a racist. And we’ve heard that he went “All In” with his racism after the Civil War. But to do anything about that - I’m going to have to write my Congressman and actively protest to try to get some laws changed. I don’t care enough to do that. Plus - I know that Tillman was instrumental in creating Clemson...and changing the name of a building isn’t going to change that.

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Thanks for turning a football forum into your


Sep 4, 2018, 2:10 PM

personal soap box.
Now GTFOH!

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Nice pulse, bro.***


Sep 4, 2018, 5:41 PM



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