Tiger Board Logo

Donor's Den General Leaderboards TNET coins™ POTD Hall of Fame Map FAQ
GIVE AN AWARD
Use your TNET coins™ to grant this post a special award!

W
50
Big Brain
90
Love it!
100
Cheers
100
Helpful
100
Made Me Smile
100
Great Idea!
150
Mind Blown
150
Caring
200
Flammable
200
Hear ye, hear ye
200
Bravo
250
Nom Nom Nom
250
Take My Coins
500
Ooo, Shiny!
700
Treasured Post!
1000

YOUR BALANCE
Complaining about basketball teams shooting too many threes
storage This topic has been archived - replies are not allowed.
Archives - Tiger Boards Archive
add New Topic
Replies: 30
| visibility 1

Complaining about basketball teams shooting too many threes


Jan 29, 2020, 4:33 PM

is analogous to complaining about football teams passing too much.

Who agrees with me?

2024 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


I think of it this way ...


Jan 29, 2020, 4:40 PM

Well, there are long passes and there are short passes in football, but the three point line never changes.

In basketball, you can live and die from the three point line.

You don’t want to fall in love with it.

badge-donor-15yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

It all depends on how well the QB passes


Jan 29, 2020, 4:41 PM

and how well the player shooting 3's shoots 3's.

But, then again, that should be obvious, shouldn't it.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: It all depends on how well the QB passes


Jan 29, 2020, 8:25 PM

It's also WHEN you take the 3s.

We never seem to get rebounds off of ours while other teams do.

Maybe take the 3 when someone is in rebounding position for a put back.

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Complaining about basketball teams shooting too many threes


Jan 29, 2020, 4:45 PM

Well, in football you can run or pass. In basketball, you can shoot or...shoot. So no, it's not a good comparison.

In either case, two things should be considered - take what the defense gives you, and play to your strength.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Complaining about basketball teams shooting too many threes


Jan 29, 2020, 4:55 PM

no it's not the same. Shooting threes is a lower percentage shot. Going to the basket gives you a better opportunity for a shot and draw a foul. Clearly Syracuse foul trouble worked to our advantage at the end of the game. If we were still jacking threes that would not have happened and less likely chance that we would have out shot Syracuse. Thus the saying, live and die by the three. We are a much better team when we are driving to the paint. We are not a good 3 point shooting team.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

^^^I'm in this camp^^^


Jan 29, 2020, 5:04 PM

But I do think Coach called a great game last night. Shot the 3 while we were hot and started attacking low when Mack got hot and Simms was not.

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

"Dabo crushed my soul." --- Classof09


I don't think you are looking at this correctly.


Jan 29, 2020, 5:13 PM [ in reply to Re: Complaining about basketball teams shooting too many threes ]

Open shots against their zone are 3s. This is a pure assumption, but I am guessing most teams have more 3-pt attempts against Cuse than their other opponents. The fact that Clemson was pretty close to their season average last night goes against the belief that we were just out there jacking 3s. Additionally, our conversion percentage was at our season average last night, which isn't great, but I wouldn't call it horrible either.

Early on, Simms was struggling and our guards seemed to have a difficult time getting the ball to the high post. As a result the ball was being passed around the arc and we were settling for 3s. When Mack started getting hot he was dominating from the high post to the rim. We were no longer settling for the 3, and when we took a 3 it wasn't settling for the shot, it was a smart shot (like the Trapp 3 he hit late in the game). This was great coaching from CBB by the way.

Basketball doesn't work in a manner in which you can say "hey we should just drive in the pain and not chuck 3s." You have to take what's there, sometimes it's working the ball into the paint, sometimes it's taking a 3. This is especially true against a zone.


Message was edited by: GWPTiger®


2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


Re: I don't think you are looking at this correctly.


Jan 29, 2020, 8:50 PM

We went through a spell where when they got it to the high post we couldnt catch it. Not sure why that was such a problem but eventually they got that resolved

badge-donor-05yr.jpgringofhonor-74tiger.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

A lower percentage shot that's worth 50% more points


Jan 30, 2020, 8:07 AM [ in reply to Re: Complaining about basketball teams shooting too many threes ]

You failed to mention to key element there. Shooting 35% from 3 is better than shooting 50% from inside the arc.

Of course you have a greater chance of getting fouled when shooting around the basket, but that's not always a huge benefit. You need to be able to make the free throws and/or leverage those fouls into foul trouble that hurts the opponent for that to really pay off.

And as GWP said above, you don't always get to choose where you shoot from. The defense often dictates where you are going to get the best looks. Cuse likes to pack the paint area with their zone which makes it difficult to drive to the basket and basically eliminates the back door cuts off the ball as those are man-beaters.

Against the zone you get guys working the soft spots like the free throw zone area or sometimes the baselines and try to collapse the zone to those spots and then quickly pass out of it. But, at least IMO, you really need some bigs that are comfortable with the ball in their hands and adept at passing to really beat a zone in that fashion and that's not something we generally have. The other thing that's generally open against the zone is the 3, particularly the corner 3. Its certainly not surprising that a team would shoot a lot of 3s against Cuse.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Complaining about basketball teams shooting too many threes


Jan 30, 2020, 8:11 AM [ in reply to Re: Complaining about basketball teams shooting too many threes ]

We are shooting 3s bc of their defense and the were longer on the inside. Once their bigs got in foul trouble, Mack went off. Brad knew Cuse only plays 5 to 6 players. If we got them in foul trouble, they were in big trouble.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

FWIW 38th in the NCAA in 3-pt attempts per game


Jan 29, 2020, 5:38 PM

https://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-basketball/stat/three-pointers-attempted-per-game

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

At some point analytics have to come into play as well


Jan 29, 2020, 5:54 PM

Our 3-pt conversion % is ~32% and our FG% just from 2-pt shots is ~52%. So for every 100 shots taken from both a 2 and 3-pt shot you score 104 points inside the arc and 96 points outside the arc. Not a huge difference, although that does not account for points we gain off of foul shots generated from shots taken inside the arc.

The key is how those numbers change when you back out last second half court shots, or taking a contested shot inside and outside, but I would guess that Clemson's analytics would heavily favor taking a wide open 3 over a contested shot that is outside the paint.

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


Re: FWIW 38th in the NCAA in 3-pt attempts per game


Jan 29, 2020, 7:45 PM [ in reply to FWIW 38th in the NCAA in 3-pt attempts per game ]

Amazing where Ky is on that list

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: FWIW 38th in the NCAA in 3-pt attempts per game


Jan 30, 2020, 1:18 PM

interesting.. always thought of them as a team that took a good number of 3's as they have had some great shooters in the past

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Agree only if you are exceptional at the 3..


Jan 29, 2020, 7:09 PM

...if so you cant lose. Seen it too many times, when a team gets hot on 3's its over.

2024 white level member flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Complaining about basketball teams shooting too many threes


Jan 29, 2020, 7:46 PM

Just like football, you take what the defense is giving you. Play "small ball" if thats what the defense dictates.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

I feel like the “purists” like inside basketball and run-oriented football.


Jan 29, 2020, 8:02 PM

A nod to a bygone era when there wasn’t a three point line in basketball, and teams didn’t pass much in football.

2024 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


As an old guy who played before the 3 pt era, & as a big guy


Jan 29, 2020, 9:11 PM

that played on the inside, when the 3 pt shot was first put in, I thought it was stupid. My thought was...it's no more difficult to make an open 3, than to make a shot under the basket, with two defenders hanging onto you! But I soon realized it wasn't about shot difficulty...it was about spreading the floor and unclogging the lane.

In most games today, what has mostly disappeared is the mid-range game. That's why I enjoyed last night's game. Tevin Mack was doing a great job with the 10-15 footers! I hope we see more of that!

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Agreed! Marcquise Reed had a nice mid-range game too.


Jan 30, 2020, 9:19 PM

I’m guessing he still does. :)

2024 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


The man who changed basketball was a


Jan 29, 2020, 8:04 PM

Harvard cartographer...

He charted 5 years of NBA shot data and showed that the points per shot on certain NBA 3s was the same as shots at the rim. And far higher than mid-range 2 pointers.

Thus, the 3 and D, mobile big man era was born.

The 3 goes with the drive to the hoop or a pass in to the low post. Yin and yang. The same way the run and pass work together to keep a D off balance.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/04/29/kirk-goldsberry-once-mapped-food-deserts-flood-data-now-his-maps-are-changing-nba/

https://www.si.com/nba/2019/05/02/sprawl-ball-kirk-goldsberry-stephen-curry-damian-lillard-lebron-james-three-point-line-nba-evolution

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Complaining about basketball teams shooting too many threes


Jan 29, 2020, 8:16 PM

Do you have a QB with an accurate arm? And a WR with speed? So you are set up for the bomb? And quick inside WRs? if so throw. But a BB team that shoots 30 3s and can't shoot anyway . .is stupid.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

I hate it when baseball players hit Home Runs.


Jan 29, 2020, 8:19 PM

Selfish grab of RBIs and glory.

There’s no I in team!

Bunt the runner over!

badge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Judge, call me old school, an old fart, out-of-touch,


Jan 30, 2020, 4:41 AM

whatever.......I've never liked the three-pointers.

Why? Because I thought those shots would usually draw the loudest shouts and applause, thus tempting too many players. I also thought they would become a lazy way of shooting rather than using old BB skills of driving the basket, if you will.

Yes, I'll accept any of the above monikers without rancor, but I'm not so certain I wasn't right in my assessment when the three-point shot was adopted.

Regardless, Go Tigerrrrrrs!

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Judge, call me old school, an old fart, out-of-touch,


Jan 30, 2020, 7:20 AM

It’s really all about the Monday morning quarterbacks....when the 3’s drop, it was a great call. When they don’t, it’s lousy coaching. If only we knew ahead of time if the shot would drop.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

It's not that simple


Jan 30, 2020, 7:43 AM

There are good 3's and bad 3's. A lot of times when our offense is struggling we take 3's too early in the shot clock. Now if you have a shooter, and move the ball effectively to get him an open 3 then that's good offense. The problem is the reward doesn't always correlate to the effort. Sometimes lazy 3's jacked up early in the shot clock from 28' go in. It's still not a good shot to take. Sometimes wide open three's taken by a good shooter, set up by good inside out ball movement clank off the rim. That was still a good shot regardless of the outcome.

What I saw in the cuse game was at team that for the most part took good 3's. You have to hit a few early to make cuse expand the zone. Then you can attack from the interior of the zone. If you don't make them come out to guard you, you can't get the ball inside to operate.

Did we take a few ill advised 3's in that game, sure but on the whole I thought the offense was effective.

I've seen games where I've thought the opposite. Where we settled to pass the ball around the perimeter then throw up a 3 because we made no effort to work the ball inside.

So again, it's not the quantity of 3's that you take, it's how you get the shot that matters more to me.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Complaining about basketball teams shooting too many threes


Jan 30, 2020, 8:22 AM

If a team has a terrible qb and and terrible wr's, but a great RB and an awesome offensive line, they shouldnt pass too much. It all depends on what a team has. You play to your strengths.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

I agree.


Jan 30, 2020, 9:24 PM

We aren’t a great three point shooting team, but we generally take good three pointers (open, manageable distance, etc.). It is more of a strength of ours than trying to get the ball inside.

Our good outside shooting has won us games this year.

2024 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: Complaining about basketball teams shooting too many threes


Jan 30, 2020, 8:27 AM

depends, is the QB kelly Bryant?

badge-donor-10yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Complaining about basketball teams shooting too many threes


Jan 30, 2020, 8:36 AM

You read my mind.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Fair question.***


Jan 30, 2020, 9:24 PM [ in reply to Re: Complaining about basketball teams shooting too many threes ]



2024 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Replies: 30
| visibility 1
Archives - Tiger Boards Archive
add New Topic