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Letterman [277]
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If you like facts and objectivity, you may not like this...
Oct 16, 2013, 7:27 PM
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A theme within many Tigernet posts is that FSU hasn't played anyone. This is apparently based upon the narrow view of Clemson's game against GA and FSU's game against Bethune-Cookman. Folllowing are the facts from the 10/15 Harris Poll which is the only poll I'm aware of which posts the weekly ranking of all 252 teams. The following is based upon Clemson's 6 games, FSU's 5 games and all the games of our opponents:
The highest ranked team Clemson has played is GA (16).
The highest ranked team FSU has played is Maryland (46).
The lowest ranked team Clemson has played is SCS (148).
The lowest ranked team FSU has played is Beth-Cook (113).
The avg rank of Clemson's other 4 opponents is 76.
The avg rank of FSU's other 3 opponents is 71.
The avg rank of Clemson's 6 opponents is 78.
The avg rank of FSU's 5 opponents is 75.
The median rank of Clemson's 6 opponents is 64-89.
The median rank of FSU's 5 opponents is 64.
Clemson's opponents cumulative record is 21-16 (.568)
FSU's opponents cumulative record is 19-10 (.655)
Interestingly, Clemson's opponent with the best record is SCS (5-2), FSU's is Beth-Cook and Maryland (both 5-1).
The truth is FSU hasn't played anyone as good as Clemson is capable of playing, and Clemson hasn't played anyone as good as FSU is capable of playing. Hopefully, both teams will play at a very high level and the game will live up to its billing, which will begin to unfold in 3 days and 30 minutes.
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CU Guru [1335]
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Re: If you like facts and objectivity, you may not like this...
Oct 16, 2013, 7:31 PM
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Well there it is , we got beat on paper .
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CU Medallion [51524]
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And you haven't won in Clemson since 2001.
Oct 16, 2013, 7:32 PM
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#### off.
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CU Guru [1047]
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You cannot compare
Oct 16, 2013, 7:33 PM
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the UGA team we beat to the current UGA squad.
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Fan [69]
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Re: You cannot compare
Oct 16, 2013, 7:38 PM
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^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^
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CU Guru [1346]
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For example we were able to hold Gurley to 75 yards
Oct 16, 2013, 8:05 PM
[ in reply to You cannot compare ] |
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on 11 attempts. Of course, we let him double his yardage with that one blown 75 yard run. And they threw at their top 4 or 5 receivers, no one getting over 100 yards. They did get a lot of yards in the air, overall though.
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Orange Blooded [2455]
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Murray is going to get his yards***
Oct 16, 2013, 8:46 PM
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Legend [16327]
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seems about right..
Oct 16, 2013, 7:40 PM
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clemson and fsu are pretty much about even will be a tough game for both teams
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Orange Blooded [2455]
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No, screw that. Clemson top 10 wins: 1, FSU: 0***
Oct 16, 2013, 8:46 PM
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All-TigerNet [10343]
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Re: If you like facts and objectivity, you may not like this...
Oct 16, 2013, 7:46 PM
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Here is a fact that will happen soon that you might not like. Clemson will whip your boys Saturday. Also like how you say SCS is better with 2 losses than Georgia with 2 losses. In case you forget we gave Georgia one of those Ls. You clowns have played no one including Maryland. Hey whatever helps you sleep at night. Just don't come a cryin' when your Cookie Boy gets beat up.
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Associate AD [833]
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And if you were as smart as you think you are
Oct 16, 2013, 7:50 PM
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You would know that the difference in playing a team ranked 113 and one ranked 148 is zero. The difference in opponents average rank of 76 and opponents average rank of 71 is zero. After the top 50, they all suck about the same. You still haven't played anybody. Saturday you WILL play somebody. Sunday still will not have beaten anybody. 5-1
GO TIGERS!
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Orange Blooded [3195]
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Apparently you are not in tune with real facts---after your
Oct 16, 2013, 7:52 PM
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d-lineman got away with his cheap shot and knocked CJ Brown out of the game,Maryland pretty much quit.I wouldn't put too much stock in statistics.
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CU Guru [1346]
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Big difference from my perch is defense
Oct 16, 2013, 7:52 PM
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We both have very capable and explosive offenses. But our defense has battled another equally explosive and talented offense right out of the gate with UGA. FSU has a very talented defense, but who has really pressed and tested them. Maryland??? Not hardly.
Defense has been the difference in the last few contests too. It certainly made the difference in the second half last year.
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All-TigerNet [10343]
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Re: Big difference from my perch is defense
Oct 16, 2013, 7:55 PM
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Also BC had their way with them. Not so much with our D.
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110%er [6321]
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Answer me this....
Oct 16, 2013, 7:54 PM
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why did you use Ga's ranking now and not the ranking when Clemson beat them? Your facts are incorrect.
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All-TigerNet [10343]
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Re: Answer me this....
Oct 16, 2013, 7:55 PM
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If that is the case then they have 0 wins over t0p 25 teams.
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Fan [62]
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yeah thats funny you used GA rank as 16 if im not mistaking
Oct 16, 2013, 8:04 PM
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They were in the top 8 and no one gives us credit for destroying that teams season. They took a beating in Death Valley all those injuries came from our game. LOL
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Orange Blooded [2762]
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Those 2 said Danny Ford had no chance against Ohio St.
Oct 16, 2013, 7:56 PM
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but I'm off on a tangent. What was your question?
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110%er [5280]
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Re: If you like facts and objectivity, you may not like this...
Oct 16, 2013, 8:04 PM
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Here's a couple more facts for ya:
Clemson is ranked higher than Fl State in defensive stats in all but 4 categories. Fl State fans have no idea the difference they'll see in this game that could easily make Winston not look half as good as those "facts" try to.
Another fact, UGA's only big loss came to a top ranked LSU...the one last week, you have to count in the fact they were out 7 starters....and considering 5 of those were their main receivers and main 2 power running backs, it's very explainable, and hardly says a thing about the Clemson/UGA game. Think so, have your 3 main receivers and Winston stay out of the game...still feel confident on your team's chances???...don't worry, neither did MD when they lost their main QB and receiver. ><
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110%er [5280]
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Re: If you like facts and objectivity, you may not like this...
Oct 16, 2013, 8:08 PM
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*UGA's big win was against LSU...
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Letterman [277]
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Re: If you like facts and objectivity, you may not like this...
Oct 16, 2013, 8:07 PM
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Yikes! Relax boys. I'm only the messenger of info from the 10/15 Harris Poll, to refute with objectivity, those of you who say FSU hasn't played anyone. I make no predictions, and my night, day, week, year, whatever will not be significantly affected whether we win or lose. We have a young quarterback, and if his leadership doesn't get it done on Sat, there will be many Saturdays ahead. Hope you team is not as uptight as some of you.
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CU Medallion [56714]
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wow, already prepped with excuses. awesome.***
Oct 16, 2013, 8:11 PM
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110%er [5280]
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Re: If you like facts and objectivity, you may not like this...
Oct 16, 2013, 8:12 PM
[ in reply to Re: If you like facts and objectivity, you may not like this... ] |
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using Harris poll to make Bethune Cookman look like UGA is hilarious though....what if Harris Poll one year was to make Furman look comparable to Fl State within their respective conference plays...would you think they are?
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Orange Blooded [2455]
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You pointed to a bunch of averages/medians
Oct 16, 2013, 8:49 PM
[ in reply to Re: If you like facts and objectivity, you may not like this... ] |
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Which are absolutely useless in proving relative strength. I have a more concise metric for you:
Clemson top 10 wins: 1 (against a team that has two top 10 wins)
FSU top 10 wins: 0
How's that average out for you?
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Orange Blooded [2659]
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110%er [6101]
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Noletime, you also have to keep in mind
Oct 16, 2013, 8:11 PM
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that we pulled our starters out of a couple of games at halftime, if not, those scores would have been far more lopsided.
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CU Guru [1218]
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Re: If you like facts and objectivity, you may not like this...
Oct 16, 2013, 8:21 PM
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I bet Tajh has played less snaps than Winston with one more game played!
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All-In [49613]
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Others have pretty much gutted your logic, but 1 more tidbit
Oct 16, 2013, 8:33 PM
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Unlike your guys, who kept your starters in throughout against a thoroughly whipped Maryland, we've been pulling our first team for much of the second half.
We hit our 40s and 50s with second and third-team players. Wonder what y'alls number would have been with that sort of substitution? Would it have made a difference?
Guess we'll find out Saturday night.
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Orange Blooded [2455]
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Averages and medians are useless trash
Oct 16, 2013, 8:45 PM
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An average tries to draw an inference from a set of data, without regard to the weight of each. Comparing UGA and Maryland is absolutely flawed.
Here's a stat for you:
Clemson top 10 wins: 1
FSU top 10 wins: 0
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All-In [40872]
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Yawn....the arsewhooping is coming, you know it***
Oct 16, 2013, 8:52 PM
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Orange Blooded [3245]
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I posted this earlier for anyone that hasn't seen it yet.
Oct 16, 2013, 8:57 PM
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FSU fans love their statistics and statistically impressive team. If numbers tell the whole story then why does Navy have more yards per completion than FSU? These are just a few facts and observations that should help you diagnose the upcoming game.
1) FSU's sack leader is Lamarcus Joyner (DB) with 2
2) FSU's margin of victory changes a drastic 34 points between home (+55) and away (+21) games
3) FSU's statistically imposing rushing attack has feasted on non-AQ teams (8.3 yp) as opposed to AQ teams (4.4)
3b) Clemson's has been within .5 yards of its season average against every opponent it has faced.
Fun Fact: Clemson had more conference victories than FSU's three BCS conference opponents combined last year (7 vs 6) that is still true this year (4 vs 3)
4) Clemson has held 4 of its 5 BCS opponents (all AQ) to at or under 20% 3rd down conversion rate (UGA 28%) FSU has held 1 of 4 BCS conference opponents to at or under 20% (Maryland 13%)
5) Despite holding a 7 point or more lead at the half of every game, FSU's second half offense has actually out scored its first half offense. Out scoring its opponents by +133 total points. This is the reason for many inflated offensive statistics.
6) Through five games FSU's high flying offense has only scored 30 points in the 1st quarter (worst quarter for either team) out scoring opponents by +9 in this period (worst differential for either team.
6b) Clemson has out scored opponents 76-21 or +55 in the 1st quarter.
Better coaches, veteran QB and The Real Death Valley!! Tigers win by 13.
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Legend [19883]
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Here's some objectivity...Jamice is in for a BIG SURPRISE!
Oct 16, 2013, 9:09 PM
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Screw objectivity....y'all in for a REALITY CHECK!!!
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Walk-On [104]
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Re: If you like facts and objectivity, you may not like this...
Oct 16, 2013, 9:12 PM
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'Bama, Oregon, Western Michigan, N.M. State = Indiana, Syracuse, Tennessee, Nevada
With your points about our average opponent rankings being same, you're effectively saying that being 4-0 against Bama, Oregon, Western Michigan, and New Mexico State is equivalent to being 4-0 against the middle four teams in the country. I selected four .500 teams at random to give you an idea of what that group would look like.
Sounds pretty silly when I say that doesn't it? I'd bet we could easily find 30 teams that would go 4-0 against that bunch of average teams but none that we think would go 4-0 against the first group.
That's why Clemson fans are saying you haven't beaten anyone. Because...well...you haven't. Your best win is Maryland at 46.
Come back on Sunday if you win and then it'll be against Clemson at 3.
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Oculus Spirit [97663]
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4 of our last 9 games have been against TOP 10 TEAMS
Oct 16, 2013, 9:29 PM
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We're batting 500. The last two top 10 teams we played, we beat. And they were from the goshawlmighty SEC
Let's see....how about FSU's last 15 games?
South Florida
North Carolina St.
Boston College
Miami
Duke
Virginia Tech
Maryland
Florida
Georgia Tech
Northern Illinois
Pittsburgh
Nevada
Bethune Cookman
Boston College
Maryland
Well, you played ONE top 10 team int he last 15 games, Florida, which was last year. And lost to them. And BC is the best team you've played since losing to Florida. How did that go? Furthermore, the last top notch elite team you beat (Top 10) was Clemson. We hung 37 points on you in your house. Same number as Florida by the way. And our defense is better this year.
And to make matters worse, the only 3 teams in the past 15 you have played who were even ranked in the top 25, were Clemson, Florida, and Northern Illinois (17th).
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Letterman [277]
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Re: If you like facts and objectivity, you may not like this...
Oct 16, 2013, 10:26 PM
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I knew some of you wouldn't like the objective data from the Harris Poll. All of your comments do not change the fact that the only thing that matters is our current 2013 teams and how they've played this year, and more importantly how they play Sat night. After sending 11 to the NFL and changing almost the entire coaching staff, not many FSU fans expected to be in the top 15 this year. It's a building year for us with many unknowns inspite of the pleasant surprises. This game will likely boil down to how Boyd and Winston play. Don't dismiss Winston as an ordinary redshirt freshman. His stats are very similar to Boyd's thus far. In fact, some TV analysts have predicted the QB of the winning team will become the Heisman front runner. That's good for Clemson, FSU and the ACC. This may not be Winston's year to beat Clemson, but it was never expected to be until the media jumped on it. Sat should be your best opportunity in the next 2-3 years to beat FSU, and Sat will likely require your team to be as good as your fans are loud. Good luck!
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All-TigerNet [10343]
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Re: If you like facts and objectivity, you may not like this...
Oct 17, 2013, 6:29 PM
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Yeah but Boyd's stats come playing far less than your Cookie Boy.
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Orange Blooded [2563]
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We're gonna B!tch slap that objectivety.... OK ?
Oct 16, 2013, 10:49 PM
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OK
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Orange Blooded [2839]
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Re: If you like facts and objectivity, you may not like this...
Oct 16, 2013, 10:54 PM
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Actually, if you open your eyes and stop being a ####### you will realize GEORGIA has the best record. Counting SC State because they played 7 and Georgia has played 6 is like saying Clemson is better solely because we played an extra game.
Your facts are pointless because Clemson has beat the #### out of every bad team we play. So have you. That's that. It doesn't matter if they are ranked 70th or 100th. A crappy team is a crappy team. You have not been tested by a top 15 opponent yet, so your words really don't mean anything. It is really hard to beat Pitt and BC. Definitely a hostile crowd and a tough team to beat, congrats!
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110%er [6320]
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I am sure this has been said already, but I will say it agai
Oct 16, 2013, 11:01 PM
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When you are a top 10 team, it does not matter that you play 25th team or the 125th team. You can measure how good you are by the best team you played, for us, that was UGA (healthy) which is a legit top 10 team when healthy. FSU, Maryland. So, there you go Mr. Factoid. FSU is at least 45th rank team, that is all you have proven.
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Orange Blooded [3233]
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Re: If you like facts and objectivity, you may not like this...
Oct 16, 2013, 11:03 PM
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I see what you're getting at, but I think it's a flawed view of the situation. First off, the UGA team that's #16 today is not the same team we faced. Secondly, you're not taking things like margin of victory, opp. total offense, opp. total defense, points allowed, yards allowed, etc into consideration.
That said, I think it's going to be a very fun and closely matched game. I think we'll be able to keep your running game in check like we've been able to do against UGA who had arguably the best RB tandem in the nation and BC who had the nation's leading rusher. On the other hand, you'll bring a lot of pressure to test our inconsistent O line.
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Orange Blooded [3728]
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Interesting note about UGA...last week both Gurley...
Oct 16, 2013, 11:10 PM
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...and Marshall were out of the lineup, as well as 2 other starting WRs. That Georgia team that played in DV 7 weeks ago is NOT the same Georgia team that fell to 16 last weekend.
My hope is that every FSU player feels they are physically, mentally, MORALLY, and ETHICALLY superior to EVERY Clemson player on the roster, with NO RESPECT for ANYTHING associated with the Clemson football team.
That they believe they are strolling into the local Starbucks for cup of hot chocolate and some pound cake for a leisurely butt kicking.
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Letterman [277]
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Re: If you like facts and objectivity, you may not like this...
Oct 16, 2013, 11:38 PM
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Your issues should be with the Harris Poll. I stated some facts from their poll which some of you interpreted as an assault on your team. Not so, just simple facts from their poll. Don't read anything into it other than evidence that refutes many continuing Clemson comments that FSU hasn't played anybody. Like Clemson, we've played everyone on our schedule and the coaches and press think we are the 5th best team in CFB, without an asterisk. I have nothing but respect for the Clemson football team which has 3 of the very top cfb players in the Country and a phenomenal team overall. I'm proud you beat an excellent GA team and that you are undefeated and will continue to feel good about your football team regardless of the outcome of the game Sat. Like last year, this is going to be another excellent year for both of our teams.
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CU Guru [1095]
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Joined: 9/13/13
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us beating a #16 UGA is what's wrong w/ that poll.
Oct 17, 2013, 12:30 AM
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Stopped reading after that point in your argument. They're #16 bc they're now without half of their starters. We beat them with all their starters, right before they turned around and beat a top ten LSU team.
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