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YOUR BALANCE
I think the reasonable conservatives on this board
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I think the reasonable conservatives on this board


Dec 10, 2020, 10:12 PM

have to face the fact that the Republican party has totally become the party of Trump. 18 Republican state attorneys general and 106 Republican Representatives have signed on to this latest outrageous and fantastical affront to democracy and the rule of law. Senators will be subjected to this Trump loyalty oath next.

It is time for rational conservatives on this board and across the country to divorce themselves from this Retrumpian Party. They are proving everyday that they do not respect the Constitution, federalism, our institutions of government, or the rule of law nor do they consider Americans capable of choosing their own leaders.

Come on over to the Democrats and help us move back to the reasonable middle.

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This Breaking News Just Hit The Wire!


Dec 10, 2020, 10:19 PM

The people you're talking about left the building when Trump won the Pub primary for the 2016 election.

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Re: I think the reasonable conservatives on this board


Dec 10, 2020, 10:21 PM

trump rebuilt the party with a bigger tent, skeers the crap out of lefties

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Re: I think the reasonable conservatives on this board


Dec 10, 2020, 10:29 PM

Cool, how'd that work out for him in 2020?

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Re: I think the reasonable conservatives on this board


Dec 10, 2020, 10:30 PM

won the majority of legal votes
picked up seats in congress

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Re: I think the reasonable conservatives on this board


Dec 11, 2020, 8:09 AM

Oh I meant outside of fantasyland. You know, where Trump's a LOSER!

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Re: I think the reasonable conservatives on this board


Dec 10, 2020, 10:32 PM [ in reply to Re: I think the reasonable conservatives on this board ]

You mean he built a hospital tent, I think, since he and his cronies keep catching Covid.

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He did quite the opposite, actually.


Dec 10, 2020, 10:40 PM [ in reply to Re: I think the reasonable conservatives on this board ]

He alienated many ACTUAL conservatives who still have integrity and appreciate decorum, and radicalized a much smaller group of fanatics than what the GOP once represented. His fanatics, however, have proven they will flex their undying allegiance to Trump and vote any conservative dissenters who attempt to voice reason from office at the next available opportunity.

Most of those 106 Republicans are well aware that what they’re doing is wrong, but they understand their political careers are finished if they don’t get on the train.

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Re: He did quite the opposite, actually.


Dec 10, 2020, 10:41 PM

you desire conservatives who are quiet and dont raise a fuss, got it

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Not at all.


Dec 10, 2020, 10:44 PM

Conservatives who respect the Constitution should be the absolute floor, though.

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Re: Not at all.


Dec 11, 2020, 7:55 AM

19b,

How about conservatives who recognize reality ?

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Re: He did quite the opposite, actually.


Dec 11, 2020, 7:54 AM [ in reply to Re: He did quite the opposite, actually. ]

Ranger,

How about conservatives who stand for the will of the people and the rule of law.

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Re: He did quite the opposite, actually.


Dec 11, 2020, 7:53 AM [ in reply to He did quite the opposite, actually. ]

If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything.

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Re: I think the reasonable conservatives on this board


Dec 10, 2020, 11:37 PM [ in reply to Re: I think the reasonable conservatives on this board ]

you have been conned.

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He’s got this huge tent!!!


Dec 11, 2020, 12:11 AM [ in reply to Re: I think the reasonable conservatives on this board ]

Apparently there isn’t room for 80000000 Americans in there, but it is huge!!!

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Pretty big losing tent.***


Dec 11, 2020, 8:03 AM [ in reply to Re: I think the reasonable conservatives on this board ]



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[Catahoula] used to be almost solely a PnR rascal, but now has adopted shidpoasting with a passion. -bengaline

You are the meme master. - RPMcMurphy®

Trump is not a phony. - RememberTheDanny


Re: I think the reasonable conservatives on this board


Dec 10, 2020, 10:36 PM



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Re: I think the reasonable conservatives on this board


Dec 10, 2020, 10:40 PM

barrett has enough balls for both of them

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Re: I think the reasonable conservatives on this board


Dec 11, 2020, 7:58 AM [ in reply to Re: I think the reasonable conservatives on this board ]

T3,

If the Republican AGs from the states in question were bringing this lawsuit, I might eschew mentioning the Constitution and the rule of law, etc.

But how in the world is the Texas AG NOT violating the rights of the states in question - and their AGs and state legislatures ??

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Re: I think the reasonable conservatives on this board


Dec 11, 2020, 11:18 AM

Well, you've been signing the praises of the courts so let them decide once again. If they throw it out, so be it.

May I remind everyone (conservatives) once again, the absolute best scenario is unfolding before us. Ga keeps senate red. Biden can do nothing but Exec Orders, period. No tax law changes. 14 house seats flipped Republican so we know, even amongst the stench of the MSM and millions of liberal sheep following their shepherd, enough smart people have figured the libs/progressives out and more will keep figuring them out.

In 2022 republicans win the House. Trump leads the call for Biden impeachment, but stays on the sideline doing rallies for the yet-to-be-announced power conservative candidate. Democrat candidate is camel toe. We know the result.

In 2024 Republicans win trifecta. Party platform: break up social media, hard on China, hard on Russia, reduce bureaucracy, reduce deficit, refund police, blow up an existing Chaz-like disturbances, reform/eliminate federal funding of universities if they are educating foreigners over US citizens, replace Clarence Thomas, and be happy!

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Re: I think the reasonable conservatives on this board


Dec 11, 2020, 11:23 AM [ in reply to Re: I think the reasonable conservatives on this board ]

And it is Article 2 of the Constitution that is dashing all of these ridiculous lawsuits. PA, AZ, GA, MI, and WI all did it correctly. They're just being challenged by sore loser children who don't respect our Constitution because Trump lost those states.

Why aren't there any arguments in the states Trump won?

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[Catahoula] used to be almost solely a PnR rascal, but now has adopted shidpoasting with a passion. -bengaline

You are the meme master. - RPMcMurphy®

Trump is not a phony. - RememberTheDanny


Nothing will come of it because it's a frivolous lawsuit***


Dec 11, 2020, 11:52 AM [ in reply to Re: I think the reasonable conservatives on this board ]



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Yes! No more party of Trump.


Dec 10, 2020, 10:40 PM

Time to be the party of Dole, McCain, and Romney again. 2nd place forever.

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“I had learned not to care. I blew a few smoke rings, remembering those years. Pot had helped, and booze; maybe a little blow when you could afford it. Not smack, though. …”


Re: Yes! No more party of Trump.


Dec 10, 2020, 10:43 PM



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Re: Yes! No more party of Trump.


Dec 10, 2020, 10:51 PM

Yep they would fold like a cheap lawn chair. Graham know what side his toast is butter on now but it took him awhile.

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RISE UP, THOU SPIRIT OF THE PAST.


Dec 10, 2020, 11:00 PM [ in reply to Yes! No more party of Trump. ]

Arise and speaketh the truth, be thou excommunicated from the church of the holy progressive liken unto the remainder of the faithless.

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What place did Trump end up in?***


Dec 11, 2020, 12:13 AM [ in reply to Yes! No more party of Trump. ]



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Oh, you mean...


Dec 11, 2020, 8:04 AM [ in reply to Yes! No more party of Trump. ]

An actual conservative party? Because Trump isn't a conservative, and neither is anyone who follows him.

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[Catahoula] used to be almost solely a PnR rascal, but now has adopted shidpoasting with a passion. -bengaline

You are the meme master. - RPMcMurphy®

Trump is not a phony. - RememberTheDanny


That was firmly established with this year's GOP platform.


Dec 10, 2020, 11:11 PM

What DJT says / does. Old news. That's why there are several Pub senators ripe for the picking to go (I) and caucus with Dems in the new senate, regardless of Georgia's races. They have no future in today's GOP, so why play that game any longer.

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Re: That was firmly established with this year's GOP platform.


Dec 10, 2020, 11:17 PM



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Re: That was firmly established with this year's GOP platform.


Dec 11, 2020, 8:00 AM [ in reply to That was firmly established with this year's GOP platform. ]

Lou,

I hope, for the sake of this country, that you are correct.

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Many of us went independent long before Trump.


Dec 10, 2020, 11:16 PM

And we pick and choose who and what we vote for pretty selectively.

You might want to look at the dumpster fire that is the Dems. Moving towards moderation is the antithesis of the trajectory you are on. We all know what happened the last time you declared the Republican Party dead forever.

Associate yourself with ideals, not parties.

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Re: Many of us went independent long before Trump.


Dec 10, 2020, 11:41 PM

so you've associated your self with the trump cult. trump is not an american, he's actually more un american than any POTUS ever. the dude is a dictator wanna be and he's been successful because of weak clown sheep that follow him.

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Hang around here more than 5 minutes before guessing


Dec 10, 2020, 11:43 PM

Whom I’m associated with.

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And darn it, nothing neuters a zinger like


Dec 10, 2020, 11:53 PM

The word “whom”, correct as it may be in usage.

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You also ended with a preposition


Dec 10, 2020, 11:55 PM



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If I had said “with whom I’m associated”,


Dec 10, 2020, 11:57 PM

I may as well have slapped him with a frilly pink glove.

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Re: If I had said “with whom I’m associated”,


Dec 11, 2020, 12:39 AM

I think you were speaking his language

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Nah, that's all good.


Dec 11, 2020, 8:18 AM [ in reply to You also ended with a preposition ]

That archaic grammar rule really doesn't apply.

Exciting discussion.

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[Catahoula] used to be almost solely a PnR rascal, but now has adopted shidpoasting with a passion. -bengaline

You are the meme master. - RPMcMurphy®

Trump is not a phony. - RememberTheDanny


Re: Many of us went independent long before Trump.


Dec 11, 2020, 12:36 AM [ in reply to Re: Many of us went independent long before Trump. ]

Yeah dude

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Re: Many of us went independent long before Trump.


Dec 11, 2020, 8:02 AM [ in reply to Many of us went independent long before Trump. ]

OBed,

OK, I'll play. Give me the short list of principles on which you stand and let's see if I can make a case for the Democrats over Trump.

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That's just it......you're making the wrong case.


Dec 11, 2020, 8:39 AM

I'm not a Trump supporter. Can't stand the guy and I find him embarrassing. When I did consider him, it was on the most pragmatic and basic of levels, i.e. "Under whom is my family in a better place now and in 5 years, all else be dammmmned ".

If you want to try and convince me how the Dems best represent me in the following areas which are most important to me, I'm game to listen:

1) Budgetary Discipline - Spending needs slashing across the board, all budgets need to be in a surplus state, and debt needs to begin being whittled down.

2) Limited government - It'll never happen, but the closer we get to the Federal govt primarily providing for National Defense and not much else, the happier I'll be. The power of our country lies in individuals and we need less oversight and regulation, not more to succeed. The govt needs individuals, not vice versa.

3) Elimination of the police state - Nope this isn't "defund the police". I support the police. This is a wholesale audit of our laws at a federal and state level eliminating the overreaches. There is far too much in this country that used to be handled neighbor to neighbor and is now a criminal matter.

4) Adherence to and admiration of the Constitution - if you think the Constitution is a relic of the past, or something that needs loopholes and workarounds to get things done (outside of actual amendments), you're not my candidate. The founders of the country were beyond brilliant with what they produced, full stop. Disagree? I'll be voting against you.


Not really looking to debate any of these points...they're pretty hard coded in me at this point, but I'll listen if you think the Dems best represent any of these. On the contrary, I'd say that the Dems and Pubs have abandoned, if not ignored most of these, thus my current unaffiliated stance.


Message was edited by: Obed®. said deficit instead of debt...oops


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Preach it Obed!!***


Dec 11, 2020, 11:28 AM



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Yeah...


Dec 11, 2020, 8:06 AM [ in reply to Many of us went independent long before Trump. ]

Tobias, I like you, dude, but Obed has a point. The GOP has collapsed under Trumpism, but that's not a reason to go running to other team. Give em time and they'll screw things up, too.

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[Catahoula] used to be almost solely a PnR rascal, but now has adopted shidpoasting with a passion. -bengaline

You are the meme master. - RPMcMurphy®

Trump is not a phony. - RememberTheDanny


Re: Yeah...


Dec 12, 2020, 2:15 PM

Cat,

You seem to be taking the position that the GOP will somehow go back to being the party of rational conservatives after Jan 20th. I think the gusto with which they have insisted that the Emperor's clothes were magnificent for the last 5 years calls that position into question. Especially the unhinged positions which Reps have twisted themselves into in the last 6 weeks.

And Trump is NOT going away in January. He will continue to poison the GOP and none of those leaders will stand up to him about any of it.

I am certainly not saying that the Dems are made of somehow better cloth, but I DO see them as more concerned for the well-being of the average American. And more willing to work inside the confines of the rule of law.

I understand that for some of you those conservatives principles are deeply ingrained. I grew up in a conservative household so many of those grains have been impressed upon me. But many of y'all believe in compromise for the good of Americans. So could we soften our stance towards each other - at least enough to listen to each other.

1. Budgetary Discipline - I personally hate being in debt. The only serious debt I got into was buying my house and i paid it off in half the term of the loan. I buy my used cars cash. So I am attentive to the idea of debt and deficit.

But in a macroeconomic reality, the debt needs to be viewed as a % of GDP and then we have to look at how debt has effected our economy historically. Given that perspective, 135% is not a "set your hair on fire" crisis. Now I am not ignoring debt, or suggesting that we give away the farm, but I think we both could move towards the middle in deciding what we can afford as a country.

Speaking of which, I think we would be better served by considering our tax dollars as investments in the country's continued success. There are places we can look into our expenditures. Do they strengthen our whole country or just a few ? Could we get more bang for our buck ? etc.

But a forward looking country needs to invest in ways to help our country adapt to the changing future and become better, stronger, fairer.

2. Limited Government - Again, I am a pretty strong individualist, so I empathize with the instinct. But there is freedom to and freedom from. Some freedoms are best secured by the rules of the social contract. I am more free because I don't have to worry about every person I come into contact with feeling free to murder me. We have laws and policemen for that, so I can put my mind on other things - I am more free.

Restrictions on individual freedom (to) should be as limited as possible - while still seeking the balance between freedom to and freedom from that provides for the most freedom for the most Americans. Surely we could at least agree to discuss where this balance might lie - like reasonable adults.

4. The Constitution - I have taught American Government and history for over 22 years. I am huge fans of the Founding Fathers and the Constitution. They were enlightened men at a particularly portentous time in human history. We owe them a huge debt of gratitude.

But I do not want to elevate them too highly. They were men like our contemporaries - with their own flaws. And one should also be aware that many of them had misgivings about the compromises within the constitution that they created. So i also don't want to elevate the constitution too highly. I don't want to place it beyond the reach of our wise today.

The Constitution is not a relic, unless you insist that it is not a living, breathing document that can adapt to the changes of the last 230 years. I don't want to throw the Constitution out, but I do want to see it's basic human principles adapted to the 21st Century. Where does that adaptation take us. We can discuss that, too. And work on a balance among our differing perspectives.

There are ways that liberals feel about the principles that Obed brought up and there are ways that conservatives feel about those things. But the good stuff - the marrow - the best way forward - is in the middle. And we have got to be able to talk about it to find it.

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The reasonable/real conservatives already have.


Dec 11, 2020, 8:15 AM

Flow, cam, IU, etc. They already know it and recognize it. The ones who never grasped actual conservative ideology and can't get keep their own beliefs straight (T3, NC Tiger, 88, and now apparently Spectre roaring back with ineptitude) worship Trump because, well, they've always craved a strongman demagogue to lead them through the perceived darkness. Fragility always longs for authority.

Those on the extreme fringe right and those with emotional instability, throughout history, have always desired an authoritarian morseso than the extreme left. Those extreme leftists tend to irrationally reject anything perceived as authority and clamber into anarchism. The extreme right, however, is frightened by the concept of freedom and democracy for others, and they're willing to blindly obey the strongman who fits their ideology as long as he will curb all of that other inconvenience for the people who are different from them.

Historical examples provided upon request. But I think y'all already know em.

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[Catahoula] used to be almost solely a PnR rascal, but now has adopted shidpoasting with a passion. -bengaline

You are the meme master. - RPMcMurphy®

Trump is not a phony. - RememberTheDanny


Re: The reasonable/real conservatives already have.


Dec 11, 2020, 11:30 AM

The more I read the TDS-enraged TNet posts of you guys, the more I (pretend to) like Trump! :)

The best thing for conservatives is to have Biden as President, get Trump out of the limelight, and let's all have a year or more respite from the MSM droning on and on and on.

While Biden has on his FALL RISK bracelet, we can cultivate a power candidate for 2024 and work plans for retaking the House in 2022.

Harris will be the 2024 candidate and should be easily beatable. Once republicans own the WH, House, and Senate we can do great things like bring the Obama cages for kids back! Obviously triggering you there, but you guys and the rest of the libs are falling into the trap of wasting time worrying about the election and not 2022 and beyond. Biden will be in the WH - we all know this, but it is just so darn fun watching you guys melt down over it!

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Re: The reasonable/real conservatives already have.


Dec 12, 2020, 2:22 PM

NC,

For us to jerk each other's chain on here is no big deal. We're just a couple of kids blowing off a little steam.

But when Presidents, and Congressmen, and AG's are doing it, I think it can create a little more damage. What makes you think they won't continue to jerk us around after Trump is gone ? I took all of this past 6 weeks' events seriously, not because I though they would succeed, but because of the dangerous doors that they were opening on questioning the Constitution and the rule of law.

BTW, how much time (& energy & money) have the Reps wasted on the election.

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Re: The reasonable/real conservatives already have.


Dec 12, 2020, 2:37 PM



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Re: The reasonable/real conservatives already have.


Dec 12, 2020, 4:01 PM [ in reply to Re: The reasonable/real conservatives already have. ]

Hope it does not continue. Will be a mistake if pubs keep too much attention on this. People will get tired of it and check out which will hurt them in 2022.

Pubs should very soon turn the page and focus energy on House in 2022.

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Re: I think the reasonable conservatives on this board


Dec 11, 2020, 11:49 AM

Get back to me when Hussein apologizes for spying on the Trump campaign and setting perjury traps while yapping on about the 'peaceful transfer of power."

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