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YOUR BALANCE
Curious what everyone here would consider a good basketball season this year.
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Curious what everyone here would consider a good basketball season this year.


Feb 11, 2021, 11:39 PM

In other words, what do you need to see this year to consider it a good year?

Winning ACC record?
NCAA Tournament appearance?
Win a game or two in the NCAAs?

Not trying to start an argument or debate, just genuinely curious.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: Curious what everyone here would consider a good basketball season this year.


Feb 11, 2021, 11:45 PM

I believe the goal of our program should be top 25 every year. The BOD, AD, Prez should announce that publicly and make it happen. Anything less is unacceptable in my opinion.

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Class of ‘71. Went through “rat season” and glad I did.


Winning a round in the NCAAs***


Feb 12, 2021, 12:08 AM



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or two or three...***


Feb 12, 2021, 8:33 AM



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Re: Curious what everyone here would consider a good basketball season this year.


Feb 12, 2021, 12:10 AM

Being the ACC isn’t very good this year, and we’re supposed to have one of the more talented teams we’ve had in the Brownell era, a Top 4 finish in the ACC would be a good year. Top 6 in the league I would classify as average but somewhat disappointing for what the league is this year.

As far as one and done in either the league or NCAA tourney, then to me you’ve got to take a hard look if it’s time to move in another direction coaching wise .

My guess is, 1-1 in the ACC Tourny and 1-1 in the Big Dance, meaning Brownell is back next year.

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All you do is try to "start an argument or debate"...


Feb 12, 2021, 12:15 AM

...enjoy this latest attempt.

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"When I was 6 my Mother let me have a kitten. It died. Don't send prayers, a TU is better." - tugalooriver circa 2022


No, I am genuinely curious.***


Feb 12, 2021, 8:22 AM



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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


No you aren't - you are fooling no one.


Feb 12, 2021, 9:17 AM

You will condescend & be defensive & try and belittle every single response that you deem unacceptable.


Of course - now that I & several others in this thread have called you on it - you won't. But just check ANY other of your trolling threads and it will be a snapshot of what we are talking about.


And I'll answer your troll bait question - this was supposed to be THE YEAR where it all started to come together . . .

So - semi's of the ACC tourney and we have to be competitive in the semifinal game.

And 2 wins in the dance and we have to be competitive in the 3rd game . . . unless we have to play in the play-in game - then 3 wins and we have to be competitive in our 4th game.

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Brad Brownell: Only Larry freaking Shyatt has a WORSE overall winning percentage among Clemson basketball coaches since 1975. Let that sink in. It's Larry Shyatt & then Brad Brownell.


Dude, what’s your problem?


Feb 12, 2021, 10:15 AM

You are way off here.

First of all, I’m not a troll. Just because you don’t like what I have to say sometimes doesn’t make me a troll.

My intention was to honestly see what people would consider a good year this year. In case you haven’t noticed, there are a lot of Karens here who whine and complain about our basketball program, so it’s logical to wonder what kind of season this year would make people happy (if that’s possible at this point).

I obviously don’t post here with the goal of widespread approval, so a comment or two accusing me of trolling wouldn’t cause me to change my approach. I’m sorry if you let posts by random people on the internet dictate things for you, but I don’t.

I hope you have a great Friday.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


More whining by you . . . .


Feb 12, 2021, 2:00 PM

Have a great Friday.



G O T I G E R S ! ! !

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Brad Brownell: Only Larry freaking Shyatt has a WORSE overall winning percentage among Clemson basketball coaches since 1975. Let that sink in. It's Larry Shyatt & then Brad Brownell.


LOL, I'm living rent free in your head and it's hilarious.


Feb 12, 2021, 3:28 PM

You should put me on ignore since my posts bother you so much.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: All you do is try to "start an argument or debate"...


Feb 13, 2021, 1:52 PM [ in reply to All you do is try to "start an argument or debate"... ]

Actually I am thank you. Despite your spitefullness

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Re: Curious what everyone here would consider a good basketball season this year.


Feb 12, 2021, 12:19 AM

Look at tOSU and Bama basketball... I think we should be ranked 20-25 and make the tourney 3 out of 5 years. Make a deep run once out of those 3. Don’t think that’s unrealistic...

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Re: Curious what everyone here would consider a good basketball season this year.


Feb 12, 2021, 1:55 AM

If I not mistaken, we beat Alabama's basketball team in December.

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Re: Curious what everyone here would consider a good basketball season this year.


Feb 13, 2021, 1:53 PM [ in reply to Re: Curious what everyone here would consider a good basketball season this year. ]


Look at tOSU and Bama basketball... I think we should be ranked 20-25 and make the tourney 3 out of 5 years. Make a deep run once out of those 3. Don’t think that’s unrealistic...


Why sell yourself short with lesser schools. I am glad Clemson chooses its on path forward. No copying other programs

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Re: Curious what everyone here would consider a good basketball season this year.


Feb 12, 2021, 4:24 AM

No argument ,or debate from me ,but;
At least 20 wins(regular and ACC Tournament) ,and at least two wins in the Big Dance.
After a 9-1 start anything short of that would be another season where Brad underachieved.
He has to get to the NCAA Tournament, especially in light of the seasons Duke,UNC, and Kentucky are having.

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20 wins this year is a very high expectation.


Feb 12, 2021, 8:24 AM

We only play 23 regular season games, as opposed to the 30 or so in a normal year.

Even with ACC Tournament and postseason play, 20 wins will be hard to get to.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


At this point.....


Feb 12, 2021, 4:26 AM

- NCAA tournament appearance
- Win at least one game there
- In ACC tournament....how about not losing the first day we play? Pretty sure this team could make the semifinals. Unfortunately I think we’ll be seeded where we would have to play UVA at that point....and they have Brownell’s number.

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Re: Curious what everyone here would consider a good basketball season this year.


Feb 12, 2021, 7:45 AM

Do we know if the conference tournament will be held? I’ve read there are debates if the conferences should cancel them so they can isolate teams that are potentially going onto the NCAA tournament. I think that would be a wise decision to try to keep teams eligible for the bigger dance.

15-8 would be a good regular season, then win a couple games in the NCAA’s. I think that’s possible.

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Getting to the NCAA Tournament is an absolute must...


Feb 12, 2021, 8:03 AM

Winning at least one if not two games would be an added benefit.

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Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.


Re: Getting to the NCAA Tournament is an absolute must...


Feb 12, 2021, 8:15 AM

In coach Brownell’s 11th year with his best team ever. I expect to play the championship game of the ACC tournament and play at least a sweet 16 game in the NCAA.
But most of all I want to see the players develop and improve from beginning of the season until year end. This has been his biggest weakness.

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Re: Curious what everyone here would consider a good basketball season this year.


Feb 12, 2021, 8:25 AM

Too late it’s already been a good season. But a nice run in the Acc tournament and a couple wins in the NCAA tournament would make it a great season. Let’s hope for that!!!

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Above .500 ACC AND two wins in the tourney


Feb 12, 2021, 8:27 AM

Probably be happy with just making it, will be more of the same if we don’t.

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Sweet sixteen***


Feb 12, 2021, 8:40 AM



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Re: Curious what everyone here would consider a good basketball season this year.


Feb 12, 2021, 8:47 AM

1) Better than .500 in conference
2) Win at least first ACC tournament game, a top-4 bye would count for this
3) Make NCAA tournament
4) Not be embarrassed in any remaining game, even if we lose


Of course, this is just the standard "good season" basics that we should strive for every single year.

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above .500 in the ACC and make it to the dance


Feb 12, 2021, 9:05 AM

Would like to win 1-2 games as well. Not making the dance would just be more of the same.

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How many times are you going to vote?


Feb 12, 2021, 9:09 AM

smh

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Aspiring member of the TigerNet Sewer Dwellers


Where's your vote, vote police ? ?***


Feb 12, 2021, 9:19 AM



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Brad Brownell: Only Larry freaking Shyatt has a WORSE overall winning percentage among Clemson basketball coaches since 1975. Let that sink in. It's Larry Shyatt & then Brad Brownell.


Early and often. I don’t like to box myself in to a certain number***


Feb 12, 2021, 1:54 PM [ in reply to How many times are you going to vote? ]



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Re: Curious what everyone here would consider a good basketball season this year.


Feb 12, 2021, 9:18 AM

First, one game at a time.

My goals are:

Be .500+ in conference play and bonus points for beating the snot out of UNC. I would like us to be a top 5 ACC program in the ACC each year.
20/22+ wins overall with a strong OOC schedule (ie not the OP OOC schedule)

from there:
Win the ACC Tourney
then win the NCAA


finally, have the basketball team get a standing ovation during halftime at a football game!

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Re: Curious what everyone here would consider a good basketball season this year.


Feb 12, 2021, 10:54 AM

Sweet 16

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Re: Curious what everyone here would consider a good basketball season this year.


Feb 12, 2021, 11:54 AM

So much depends on the finish, which is a blessing (rarely) and a curse (mostly). For this Clemson team, I would say a +500 ACC record and a respectable showing in the ACC tournament would be enough to lock up an NCAA bid. That should be a good season. But a first-round loss in the NCAA would take a lot of shine off the dime. One win in the tournament would certifiably be a good season. Two wins would be a great season. Sort of implied in a +500 ACC record, by the way, is winning some road games.

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Re: Curious what everyone here would consider a good basketball season this year.


Feb 12, 2021, 1:25 PM

With the talent on this team anything less then a Sweet Sixteen appearance would be a disappointment.

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I would imagine however the season ends, there will still be


Feb 12, 2021, 1:52 PM

people whining about something we could of done or crying about something we didn't do...I credit you for trying to get out ahead of it, but the goalposts will be moved as soon as the final buzzer sounds...We could make a Final Four and people would either complain about not making the title game or whine about it taking Brad 11 years to get to this point

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NOTHING is impossible on here - BUT - I HIGHLY doubt there


Feb 12, 2021, 2:03 PM

would be anything but extreme joy & optimism if we were to make the Final Four.


Would LOVE to see it happen so we could see who is right in their hypothesis.

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Brad Brownell: Only Larry freaking Shyatt has a WORSE overall winning percentage among Clemson basketball coaches since 1975. Let that sink in. It's Larry Shyatt & then Brad Brownell.


If you don't think there would be people whining about it


Feb 12, 2021, 3:00 PM

taking Brad 11 years to get there, you are extremely naive

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Success: Make NCAA; Big Success: win 1st rd game***


Feb 12, 2021, 3:04 PM



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Re: Curious what everyone here would consider a good basketball season this year.


Feb 12, 2021, 3:28 PM

Beating Ga Tech tonight first. I would consider it a success making NCAA tournament. Anything after that , a bonus. Would love to reach Sweet 16.

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Re: Curious what everyone here would consider a good basketball season this year.


Feb 12, 2021, 5:46 PM

Above .500 in the conference, win an ACC tourney game if we play, and must go dancing and win one game. I don’t think those are very high expectations when you have what Clemson has to offer. I get it no winning basketball tradition but I am not buying that old excuse.

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Winning ACC record and making NCAA tournament


Feb 12, 2021, 7:17 PM

that would be a successful year. That should be the benchmark of success every year.

For the dude that said "Making Sweet 16" --- well, that would be a GREAT season. But more than expected any year. We can have a successful year without making the Sweet 16, though that would be wonderful!

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Exactly. We’ve only made the Sweet 16 three times ever.


Feb 13, 2021, 9:45 AM

As you said, it would be a great season for us.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: Curious what everyone here would consider a good basketball season this year.


Feb 12, 2021, 7:19 PM

Yes to ALL of that. Why would anyone expect less?

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Re: Curious what everyone here would consider a good basketball season this year.


Feb 12, 2021, 7:52 PM

Let’s just beat GT tonight, if we can’t beat GT at home it doesn’t matter anyway .
Tonight will tell how this season ends

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Win out. Go to Final Four. Make championship.


Feb 12, 2021, 8:02 PM

Then lose by 78.

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At least a NCAA tournament appearance....


Feb 13, 2021, 8:57 AM

And at least one win in the tournament would be welcome.

How about you Judge? How do you judge a good year?

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I look at a few things:


Feb 13, 2021, 10:55 AM

1. What were our goals at the start of the year?

For me, it was to finish in the top 7 of the ACC and make the NCAA Tournament.

2. How do our goals compare to preseason predictions by the experts?

We were picked to finish 10th in the ACC this year. Most experts didn’t have us as an NCAA Tournament team when the season started.

So my goal was higher than predicted.

3. How does our talent level compare to the teams we played?

Here is where we ranked in the ACC in recruiting the last few years according to 247Sports:

2017: 9th
2018: 10th
2019: 9th
2020: 4th

There have been some posts here talking about all of the talent we have, saying that we should expect to be in the top 4 of the ACC and make the Sweet 16. Even though we have improved our talent level the last few years, and it’s good for Clemson historical standards, it isn’t close to being among the best in the ACC.

4. Did we win the games we were supposed to?

This year, we haven’t lost any games to teams we shouldn’t.

5. Have we played hard?

Yes, we play with great effort. Brad does a great job getting his teams to play hard.

6. Have we done well in the classroom?

Yes, they’ve done a great job.

7. Have our players stayed out of trouble and been good citizens?

Yes. They are great guys.

These are my general questions I ask, although there are obviously other details to consider.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


I absolutely agree that this team is playing hard.


Feb 13, 2021, 12:08 PM

They seem to have a fire in them that really shows.

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Re: I look at a few things:


Feb 16, 2021, 9:06 AM [ in reply to I look at a few things: ]


2. How do our goals compare to preseason predictions by the experts?

We were picked to finish 10th in the ACC this year. Most experts didn’t have us as an NCAA Tournament team when the season started.

3. How does our talent level compare to the teams we played?

Here is where we ranked in the ACC in recruiting the last few years according to 247Sports:

2017: 9th
2018: 10th
2019: 9th
2020: 4th





So, one of the factors is to beat pre-season predictions. What if we were picked 14th and finished 12th? Success!! Give me a break.

And another is to play better than our perceived talent? You realize the coaching staff is responsible for the talent, right? I know you are going to talk on and on about facilities and spending at this point, but it's ridiculous to blame the talent for the result when the same people are responsible for both.

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We are talking about expectations for this season.


Feb 16, 2021, 4:58 PM

So yes, it's important to look at our talent level compared to the rest of the ACC, as well as where the people who are basketball analysts for a living think we rank.

As I'm sure you know, the preseason ACC poll had us 10th. If you look at other preseason picks, we were consistently predicted to finish in the 9-11 range in the conference. Some had us as a bubble NCAA team, and others had us on the outside looking in.

Obviously, I don't base my entire expectations on that, which is why my goal for this year was to be top 7 in the ACC and make the NCAA Tournament.

Your posts often reference the trajectory of the program. Assessing that is a separate conversation, and one which looks at a wider breadth of data, but still doesn't ignore the factors outside of our control (e.g., what our competitors are doing, how they recruit, and how they play).

Simply whining about us not making the Final Four every year and how Brad is in his 11th year and blah blah blah isn't accomplishing anything. All we can do in terms of evaluating THIS year is look at who was on our team in the fall, look at what our capabilities are as a team, and consider that in context of who we are competing against.

When we do that, I'd say that this season has been successful. I'm excited for what lies ahead for this team.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: We are talking about expectations for this season.


Feb 16, 2021, 5:30 PM

1 - I've never once said I expect us to be in the Final Four.
2 - Measuring success by outperforming preseason expectations is ludicrous.
3 - Looking at "who is on the team" means looking at the coaching staff that put those players on this team.
4 - Assessing the trajectory of the program is part of the conversation, not a separate one. Such low expectations at this point of BBs tenure are an indicator of low progress and a lack of success.

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Re: Curious what everyone here would consider a good basketball season this year.


Feb 13, 2021, 9:34 AM

IMO Brad Brownell has more love for Clemson than any of our previous BB HC’s. He has had to deal with a lot of negativity from the media and from the fans. I am sure he has felt the heat many times but he continually goes out recruiting and do his best to build a winning program the honest way. He rarely gets credit for the good things he has accomplished. They are overshadowed by the negative stuff. Some of it unjustified.

Yet BB has given Clemson his best. He did not use Clemson like OP and Rick Barnes as a means to a better job. IMO a man of lesser character and integrity would have left by now due to the pressure from the media and the fans.

What does BB have to do to win your support??

Clemson has been playing catch up with NC, Duke, Virginia, NC State and GT since the ACC was formed. Even the coots had a better program. These schools play around with the NCAA’s rules too. But the thing I look at is there football programs. They are all average.

Clemson is a football school asking Brad B to build a consistent winner in basketball. But that it takes a lot of money. Are we investing enough money to put the Clemson BB team in a position to compete with the other top ACC schools.

I am not an accountant but I bet for every $1 we invest in basketball Clemson invest $5 to $10 in the football program. Clemson Football is our cash cow supporting most of Clemson’s other athletic programs. So I understand why we invest so much in football. That being said is Coach B getting the best he can out of the investment in to our basketball program?? I believe that he is. Some of the progress I see is in close games. So many times we use to lose those games that we are now winning.

Dabo is a great HC but the big financial investment Clemson has made in football certainly has been a part of that success.

Before you beat down Coach Brownell consider his up hill climb every season.

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Great post!***


Feb 13, 2021, 10:58 AM



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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


For me, it’s the same each year ...


Feb 13, 2021, 9:51 AM

NCAA Tournament appearance. Chip and a chair. I feel this should be the expectation every year. Can’t get hot and make a run if you don’t have a seat at the table. Just my opinion.

Might make a deep run occasionally, might be one and done. But as a CU basketball fan, it sure does add another dimension to the tournament when our Tigers are a participant.

Go Tigers

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Re: Curious what everyone here would consider a good basketball season this year.


Feb 13, 2021, 10:15 AM

I think they will have had a good season by making it to the NCAA's. That's not a forgone conclusion but it is getting pretty close. By consistently having good season's you have the chance to get a good draw, get lucky, catch lightning in a bottle, or whatever to elevate it to a great season.

As for a good season extended off of the court, I would add another recruiting year like the last couple. If we have that then I think that we will be on the way to consistently having good season's with a great one mixed in from time to time.

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Re: Curious what everyone here would consider a good basketball season this year.


Feb 13, 2021, 10:19 AM

out last game be a win.

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It’s early, huh?***


Feb 13, 2021, 10:25 AM



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Lets get to the Tourney and see what damage we can do!***


Feb 13, 2021, 10:55 AM



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How do you keep Gamecocks out of your yard?
• Put up goal posts
What does a Gamecock grad call a Clemson Tiger grad in 2 years?
• Boss


Re: Curious what everyone here would consider a good basketball season this year.


Feb 13, 2021, 1:24 PM

Judge...It would take all three. A winning ACC record, a Big Dance appearance and one one win in the tournament. In reality, there's a good chance we'll see that happen.

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Re: Curious what everyone here would consider a good basketball season this year.


Feb 13, 2021, 1:49 PM

Personally I would settle for an ACC Tourney champ and ousted in the first round of the dance.

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Re: Curious what everyone here would consider a good basketball season this year.


Feb 13, 2021, 1:51 PM

Wait that was a little pie in the sky. NCAA tourney appearance would be a good season. I think we can manage our schedule from here and would be disappointed if somehow we didn't make the dance

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Tourney appearance


Feb 16, 2021, 9:16 AM

Less is underachieving

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Re: Curious what everyone here would consider a good basketball season this year.


Feb 16, 2021, 11:43 AM

That fact that some people think just making the NCCA tournament is a good season shows how little expectations people have for the basketball program.

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Re: Curious what everyone here would consider a good basketball season this year.


Feb 16, 2021, 11:54 AM

Also explains the complacency. Accepting mediocrity achieves...mediocrity.

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You keep talking about complacency and mediocrity.


Feb 16, 2021, 5:04 PM

What are your expectations for Clemson basketball, and how do you propose we get there?

You are good at mentioning problems, and whining, griping, and complaining. I don't see you offering much in the way of solutions.

Now is a good time for you to start.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: You keep talking about complacency and mediocrity.


Feb 16, 2021, 5:34 PM

I'm a fan, not a coach. It's not my role to solve the problems, but as a fan I do have expectations. You are the one asking about expectations, and I already provided my answer to that question in this thread.

I suppose it should be obvious what I think needs to happen for us to progress beyond mediocrity - get a new coach.

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Well we've only made the NCAA Tournament 11 times


Feb 16, 2021, 5:02 PM [ in reply to Re: Curious what everyone here would consider a good basketball season this year. ]

in our 100+ year basketball history.

I'd say making the NCAA Tournament constitutes success for our program. Certainly, we want to progress to the point that we are a fixture in the NCAA Tournament, followed by advancing into the later rounds. But we have to start somewhere, and making it is a good first step.

I'd be curious to know what your expectations are for the program, and what you feel needs to be done in order to get us there.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Tourney appearance + 1 tourney win = met expectations


Feb 16, 2021, 12:30 PM

2 wins in the tourney will be a good season

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Less COVID pauses and a couple of wins in


Feb 16, 2021, 1:31 PM

the NCAA Tournament.

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"When I was young, I was sure of many things; now there are only two things of which I am sure: one is, that I am a miserable sinner; and the other, that Christ is an all-sufficient Saviour. He is well-taught who learns these two lessons." -John Newton


We are a major university in what was once considered the


Feb 16, 2021, 4:59 PM

BEST basketball conference in the country. As such, our goal should ALWAYS be making the NCAA Tourney, and advancing at least past the first round. I say that because, as an upper seed, you will usually be playing a smaller, lower ranked school in the first round, so you should beat them.

Only making the dance once in a blue moon is NOT what I would consider acceptable. But, unfortunately, we HAVE accepted it for far too long, so expectations are obviously lowered.

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Do you believe that it's harder for us to make the


Feb 16, 2021, 5:12 PM

NCAA Tournament in the ACC, considering the emphasis many of our peer institutions in the ACC place on basketball, and the lack of emphasis we historically place on it? Because I do.

As a reminder:

-We don't have a very good basketball history
-We aren't located in an area ripe with basketball talent
-We are known as a football school, and to basketball recruits that isn't usually a positive
-We aren't willing to cheat
-We aren't going to compromise the academic side of things just to win basketball games
-We are competing against some really good basketball programs, many of which are willing to do some or all of the above to win basketball games

I'm not saying that we shouldn't have high standards for basketball, because we should. But we have to realize that it's going to take a very intentional and dedicated passion for basketball at Clemson for us to compensate for the things we have working against us. I hope that the AD is genuine in wanting to see us be a great program, and that the facility improvements and staff additions are evidence of that. If so, we can expect to see continued improvement in the product on the court (as we have this year).

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


I just want to Dance!*****


Feb 16, 2021, 4:47 PM



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Re: Curious what everyone here would consider a good basketball season this year.


Feb 16, 2021, 5:47 PM

Most all post regarding our bb team starts with firing our coach and allowing some of the posters to recruit and coach

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