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Topic: ClemsonTiger1988
Replies: 36   Last Post: Dec 6, 2020, 10:17 AM by: Catahoula®
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Replies: 36  

ClemsonTiger1988

[1]
Posted: Dec 4, 2020, 5:47 PM
    Reply

I am not trying to argue with you,so this is just more of fascination thing. Do you think Trump will get a 2nd term still?

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Re: ClemsonTiger1988

[3]
Posted: Dec 4, 2020, 5:49 PM
    Reply

Yep, more so than last week. I've was married for a total of 35 years so it won't be the first time I've been wrong.

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Re: ClemsonTiger1988

[1]
Posted: Dec 4, 2020, 5:50 PM
    Reply

lefties are worried about something lol

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There were time when the leaks from the Russian hoax...

[1]
Posted: Dec 4, 2020, 6:02 PM
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worried me. It didn't change anything.

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Re: ClemsonTiger1988

[1]
Posted: Dec 4, 2020, 6:06 PM
    Reply

Not worried at all. I think there isn't even a slim chance Trump gets a 2nd term. I just like seeing what others think. I think Trump and deceased Jon McCain have equally as good of chance of being in office come February.

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Re: ClemsonTiger1988

[1]
Posted: Dec 4, 2020, 6:19 PM
    Reply

Can we call Biden half way between Trump and McCain? The sum of the two divided by two, or average?

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I don't think most of these guys are that far left.

[1]
Posted: Dec 4, 2020, 6:26 PM
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I think they just hate Trump. I hate the man's behavior but I don't support him because of his behavior. I support him now because he fought to bring China under control and made valiant attempts to balance trade with everyone. I like that we're energy independent and totally screwing the middle east, Russia and China by being so.

Imo, picking out a president because on personality is a superficial reason. That's like marrying one of those 8-10 on look scale women then finding out they are a bithch. Did that twice. My last GF look like the Darlin girl on The Andy Griffith show. She was a bit homely but was a dime in ever other way. I mean, every other way.

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Re: I don't think most of these guys are that far left.

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Posted: Dec 4, 2020, 7:48 PM
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I can deal with people with personality defects. John McCain was known to be incredibly difficult and I think he would have made a great president. Similarly Amy Klobuchar was supposedly The Devil Wears Prada but I had her up there with Buttigieg as one of the two Dems I could reasonably get behind.

Donald Trump is something else - a sociopathic narcissist.

He is literally one of the bad guys, and is directly opposed to everything America supposedly stands for. That's not a thing you just "overlook". He will literally go down in history as the worst president America has ever had and my hope is that future historians are going to describe Trump as just a dark chapter in our history...and not instead describe Trump as one of the culprits who caused the collapse of America...you know, the way they talked about Nero and Caligula and Commodus - who was so bad the toilet literally got named after him - and who together managed to collectively run Rome into the ground.

The guys who destroyed Rome were actually a lot like Trump. Megalomaniacs, sociopaths (in a couple cases seemingly outright psychopaths), narcissists, self-aggrandizing liars who thought themselves far more important than law or custom or truth or decency or any principle...or even Rome itself.

I don't know how anyone doesn't see that about him. I really don't. There are very few people without seemingly a single redeeming quality - but Trump is one of them. Everything about him is pretty much despicable.

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Great post.

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Posted: Dec 4, 2020, 8:09 PM
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I hate when people try to compare personality or morality with Trump. It's a completely different animal. Children know he is not a leader. The mental gymnastics to support him seems incredible, but I suspect people secretly like him and the way he treats people they don't like.

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That's a thesaurus full of words about how bad he is

[1]
Posted: Dec 5, 2020, 12:23 PM
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without saying a single thing that he actually DID to cause this massive and catastrophic impact on the country that you describe.

No argument about him personally, none whatsoever. Just tell me what actions, directly attributable to him and unique to him amongst all other Presidents, that he has taken to merit that third paragraph.

This seems to be a trend throughout his Presidency. Almost everyone, including his supporters, recognizes his personal faults. In judging him though, his detractors describe this massive Emperor Palpatine-type effect on the country that just doesn't jive with reality. All things considered, the country is doing quite well.

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The country is not doing quite well

[1]
Posted: Dec 5, 2020, 12:38 PM
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Is it all Trump's fault? No.

But you are defending a person that has no redeemable qualities. He absolutely influences people with his behavior and character. He has no interest in learning, and all of his actions and concerns are selfish. Do you not think this affects policy? He is corrupt. He always has been. You cannot compartmentalize that. He is not good for America.

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Asking someone to justify a moniker of "worst ever" is

[1]
Posted: Dec 5, 2020, 12:46 PM
    Reply

hardly "defending".

It seems to me that the position is just as unbalanced against reality as those who declare him the best ever. I'm just asking you to convince me I'm wrong, with some facts instead of emotion.

As I've said before....he didn't march Cherokees on the trail of tears. He didn't put Japanese-Americans into internment camps. He didn't lead us into the Great Depression. He didn't preside over slavery......

It seems to me that it requires a crap-ton of cognitive biases to be absolutely convinced that he'll go down as the "worst ever".

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I am entirely concerned with debating if he is the worst


Posted: Dec 5, 2020, 1:14 PM
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I did not realize your response was because he was described as the "worst ever". I like to, at least, put that stuff into a historical context.

If your criteria of how this country is doing is based on how many people have food, shelter, and modern amenities, I guess our ancestors would think we're doing quite well. We're not in world war, so I guess that's good. Those seem a bit like disingenuous arguments if that is your point.

The millions of people that have been given permission to ignore facts and science is concerning. Trump has thrown tons of fuel on an existing fire. He has given voices to ugly people. One of our major parties is now moving towards Trumpism because they have to move with their base. Is this reasoning based on emotions?

His response to a pandemic has been disgraceful. He has convinced millions to distrust institutions including elections. The cultural effect of Trump will be his biggest legacy.

There are many facts and figures that indicate the country is not in good shape. We are not headed in the right direction. It is up for debate how much Trump has to do with that, but I know for sure that he does not care about issues and is not interested in working hard to fix them.

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disingenuous? really?

[1]
Posted: Dec 5, 2020, 1:24 PM
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"worst ever" is the superlative form of a comparative. Making comparisons is exactly what it's meant for, and when examining if someone is the "worst ever", what better to compare than bad events that a President has been responsible for and presided over in the country? It's not disingenuous to break down such a hyperbolic statement, it's completely forthright.

Disingenuity is just casually throwing out statements that defy belief like "worst ever" based on a deep ingrained personal dislike.

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If your criteria for judging a president


Posted: Dec 5, 2020, 2:04 PM
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is based solely on our present day hindsight, that is disingenuous or poorly reasoned.

Things are not quite well in this country, and I explained why.

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I'd say it's more disingenuous to base your criteria


Posted: Dec 5, 2020, 2:39 PM
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purely on future predictions of where we will end up.


Trump caused nothing you mentioned, he's a product of it, and it started long before 2016. Additionally, no one man (or woman) will take us down some dark, unrecoverable hole. We are bigger than that, and always have been, which is how we got through the things I mentioned that you're quick to discount as comparables.

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Re: I'd say it's more disingenuous to base your criteria


Posted: Dec 5, 2020, 4:52 PM
    Reply

You're right, Trump has been enabled by an entire party in Congress and a cable news network that spread his propaganda for four years. Trump is the symptom, not the cause.

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Lulz.....ok.


Posted: Dec 5, 2020, 4:55 PM
    Reply

The set of circumstances that aligned to deliver DJT to the Presidency didn't form until 2016. Nailed it.

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Re: Lulz.....ok.


Posted: Dec 5, 2020, 4:56 PM
    Reply

Did I say that? Trump is the logical result to 25 years of Fox News and 30 years of Republican obstruction in Congress.

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you probably should have said that instead of "four years"


Posted: Dec 5, 2020, 5:00 PM
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if that was your point, because that's what your words conveyed.

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Re: you probably should have said that instead of "four years"


Posted: Dec 5, 2020, 5:07 PM
    Reply

Now that you mention it, I should have pointed out that Fox News amplified the birther nonsense that Trump loved to talk about during the Obama years. So it was longer than that. But you're being intentionally dense, which doesn't really come as a surprise.

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All I have to go on is what you say.


Posted: Dec 5, 2020, 5:28 PM
    Reply

Any perceived denseness on this one came through the conveyance and not the interpretation. Communicate better and I'll understand better.

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Re: Asking someone to justify a moniker of "worst ever" is


Posted: Dec 6, 2020, 10:17 AM
    Reply

He'll go down as the worst in modern history. Post WW II. No president has divided our nation or pushed us to such unrest for his ego. Even Nixon knew when to bow out.

So yeah, it's hard to compare him to those guys in the 1800s who did some pretty bad ####. But ask yourself this: What would Trump have been like, with all this personality, had he been president in the 1800s during those same situations?

Then I think you know bad he is.

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Re: That's a thesaurus full of words about how bad he is


Posted: Dec 5, 2020, 4:51 PM
    Reply

How many previous presidents called a governor to ask him to overturn his state's election results?

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/05/politics/trump-georgia-brian-kemp-phone-call/index.html


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Ok, now we are getting somewhere.


Posted: Dec 5, 2020, 4:54 PM
    Reply

So that's worse than marching 3500 Cherokees to their death on a 5k mile forced march?

I'm not judging, I just need to know how you weight these things in the "worst ever" calculation that so many of you are so sure about.

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Re: Ok, now we are getting somewhere.


Posted: Dec 5, 2020, 4:56 PM
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Talk about moving the goalposts. You asked for something that no other president did, and I provided an example.

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Might want to re-read the thread instead of parsing.


Posted: Dec 5, 2020, 4:59 PM
    Reply

You whiffed the goalposts if that's the case. I directly referenced his over-the-top dramatic third paragraph in which he said he would "literally go down as the worst President ever".

You mentioned something shady he did. I'm asking what's he done to crush the country permanently and earn "worst ever" status, and you've got a sneaky phone call to a governor.

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Re: Might want to re-read the thread instead of parsing.


Posted: Dec 5, 2020, 5:06 PM
    Reply

"Sneaky phone call to a governor" is an awfully soft way of describing election meddling as part of a coup.

But okay, we'll play your game.

So far, in addition to the above mentioned election meddling, he's responsible for 270k deaths (and counting), in which he admitted he wanted to downplay the severity of the virus. He has separated children from their families at the border and locked them away in camps. He called a foreign country to get dirt on his opponent in the election. He has invited Russians to an Oval Office meeting in which no American press were allowed to attend. He trusted Vladimir Putin over his own intelligence agencies. He banned Muslims from certain nations from entering the country based solely on their religion. His response to a devastating hurricane in Puerto Rico was to throw paper towels at citizens.

Yes, he is the worst president this country has ever had.

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Re: Might want to re-read the thread instead of parsing.


Posted: Dec 5, 2020, 5:24 PM
    Reply

"he's responsible for 270k deaths (and counting)" - So another candidate would have prevented all of them, because you're basically saying that no Covid deaths would have occurred absent DJT in office. If you realize that isn't what you meant to say, then exactly how many would you say would have been prevented by HRC? This could qualify for worst ever but we need to know exactly how many he killed by being Prez that Hillary wouldn't have.

"He has separated children from their families at the border and locked them away in camps." Sorry, other Presidents beat him to this. Going to have to disqualify it on originality grounds from "worst ever".

"He called a foreign country to get dirt on his opponent in the election." Again, not the first, sorry.

"He has invited Russians to an Oval Office meeting in which no American press were allowed to attend." Just to clarify, because I don't know---has the press been present in every previous Oval office meeting with a foreign delegation ever? If so, sure, let's throw it in there.

"He trusted Vladimir Putin over his own intelligence agencies." - Sure, saying this one out loud was rotten and uncalled for. Let's include it.

"He banned Muslims from certain nations from entering the country based solely on their religion." - Ooooh, no, sorry. False entries are disallowed. There were more countries included than just Muslim ones.

"His response to a devastating hurricane in Puerto Rico was to throw paper towels at citizens." - So we sent no money nor aid? Just a couple rolls of paper towels? That's terrible.



I think what most rational people see is that he wasn't a great President, was an even worse man, we got through him and he didn't leave us in shambles, and that he has quite a long ways to go to hit the bottom of the list. I think what most rational people also realize is that anyone who says "He's the worst President ever" and really means it is really saying either "I hate him more than any other President" or "I don't have a solid grasp of the historical atrocities committed by and for past Presidents".

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Re: Ok, now we are getting somewhere.

[1]
Posted: Dec 5, 2020, 5:04 PM
    Reply

Obed® said:

So that's worse than marching 3500 Cherokees to their death on a 5k mile forced march?

I'm not judging, I just need to know how you weight these things in the "worst ever" calculation that so many of you are so sure about.




Give him time

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Re: That's a thesaurus full of words about how bad he is

[1]
Posted: Dec 6, 2020, 10:14 AM
    Reply

Obed, when a large segment of our population is calling for a civil war and violence against the political opposition because they adore this man so much, and he continues to fan those flames, that's damage enough to our nation.

Every policy he's ever done goes out the window with that. He's evil and putting our nation at danger.

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How, exactly?

[1]
Posted: Dec 4, 2020, 8:02 PM
    Reply

Which court cases in which states are going to prevail?

Unless you think it's going down by some other means.

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Keeping in mind...


Posted: Dec 4, 2020, 8:03 PM
    Reply

All disputes must be resolved by Tuesday. After that, that's it. No more court challenges.

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Re: Keeping in mind... 29


Posted: Dec 4, 2020, 11:32 PM
    Reply

That's one view.

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Sorry, but after Tuesday, that's it.***

[1]
Posted: Dec 5, 2020, 11:06 AM
    Reply



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Re: Sorry, but after Tuesday, that's it.***


Posted: Dec 5, 2020, 5:07 PM
    Reply

30

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Re: How, exactly?


Posted: Dec 4, 2020, 11:31 PM
    Reply

28 and I'm not saying. It's my theory and has not been addressed or even considered by any media or poster I know of.

Maybe next week I'll say.

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