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Rock Defender [53]
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So the MSM and social media are portraying this as a guy
Aug 28, 2020, 9:38 PM
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Rock Defender [53]
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Going to add this too
Aug 28, 2020, 10:06 PM
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Hall of Famer [24669]
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How are the police portraying him...?***
Aug 29, 2020, 12:23 AM
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Rock Defender [53]
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He will walk
Aug 29, 2020, 12:38 AM
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Hall of Famer [24669]
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He better hope so... Ayrian Nation will be his best hope,
Aug 29, 2020, 12:59 AM
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but I doubt all his wannabe talk about helping the police will go over well with them. He'll get some training, though...
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Standout [340]
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you really need to come out of Dungeons and Dragons
Aug 29, 2020, 2:44 AM
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come on now... join the rest of us in the real world.... you can do it little buddy...
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All-In [48078]
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Re: He will walk
Aug 29, 2020, 7:01 AM
[ in reply to He will walk ] |
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Hope you're right.
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Hall of Famer [20518]
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Re: He will walk
Aug 29, 2020, 7:14 AM
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I'd also add Tucker Carlson is walking a real dangerous line right now.
It's one thing to be a right-wing shill. It's another level altogether to start chumming the water and trying to get the feeding frenzy going, and advocating or being an apologist for street vigilantes is going to places we haven't seen a primetime host ever go before. I know Tucker thinks he's above it all, that guy who makes the masses dance to the strings coming off his fingertips...but he's a piece on the board too whether he realizes it or not, and once you cross that line of advocating violence you invariably get swept up in it.
There are violent, radical elements out there on the fringe left...and some of them are very dangerous. They will go after Carlson if he keeps this up...and the reality of this wonderful interconnected world we live in today is, nobody can hide from the Internet anymore.
I really don't think Tucker has thought this one all the way through. Violence escalates, and it's indiscriminate.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: He will walk
Aug 29, 2020, 8:50 AM
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I am a moderate liberal, so obviously I don't like Tucker, but I 100% support the shooter who defended himself. To be quite honest, I wish he legally could have shot everyone of them that looted, burned, and beat innocent people like that old man who was knocked out.
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All-TigerNet [13605]
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Re: He will walk
Aug 29, 2020, 9:14 AM
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Sounds like we should appease the fringe left. Don't want to upset them.
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Standout [345]
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Re: He will walk
Aug 29, 2020, 9:49 AM
[ in reply to Re: He will walk ] |
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I also find myself defending the kid in some ways.
1. He is a dumb ### kid (we all were at that age no matter your beliefs)
2. I can completely see how he felt threatened when the first guy went for the gun and after that anyone coming at him was going to be seen as a threat even if they hadn't been trying to take him down at that point (which they were).
However, here is where I have a problem with him.
Two people are dead because he wanted to go be Billy Bad ###. He was carrying around a weapon in broad daylight illegally and placed himself in harm’s way. He shot someone and the group that saw it reacted as you would expect. Fight or flight kicked in and some fought and some ran. By pulling the trigger the first time he guaranteed he would have to face more and to be honest, he is lucky as #### someone else didn't have a firearm or he may well be dead now also.
It's just sad no matter how you look at it and not only are people dead, this kid’s life is probably ruined whether he walks or not. He should have never been there in the first place and I have a problem both with any cops who saw him walking around and didn't check his age/license to carry (don't know Wisconsin law so maybe license isn't an issue but he was under age) and his parents who let him go do something so reckless to being with. Possible they didn't know but if they did, who the #### would let their kid go do something like that?
All of it could have been avoided if any number of people at a 100 different points had stepped in and put an end to it before it could turn ugly.
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Rock Defender [53]
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W t f are you even talking about???
Aug 29, 2020, 12:06 PM
[ in reply to Re: He will walk ] |
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Hall of Famer [20518]
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Re: So the MSM and social media are portraying this as a guy
Aug 29, 2020, 6:33 AM
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I'm just shaking my head.
People are dead, and a 17-year-old carrying a gun he wasn't legally authorized to be using is responsible. He was not defending hearth or home and it was pretty obvious he went down there with the intent of getting involved; he did not merely "find" himself in a bad situation...he put himself there.
The kid is not going to walk. Nor should he. At best the kid is a vigilante, and worst he went down there with the hope of shooting someone.
IF he walks the black community (justifiably) explodes, and every would-be culture warrior in the hills comes down with an AR-15 to get involved...and then you've got an outright street war on your hands. And then America turns into Beiruit or Bosnia.
Is that really what you guys want? Certainly in olemike's case, that question is not rhetorical.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: So the MSM and social media are portraying this as a guy
Aug 29, 2020, 7:04 AM
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It will be a shame if he doesn't walk. He was defending himself and he did bring the gun for self defense. He is a victim who survived. His only crime in my mind is being too young to have the gun. Did he put himself in a bad situation? Yes. That is irrelevant.
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Hall of Famer [20518]
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Re: So the MSM and social media are portraying this as a guy
Aug 29, 2020, 7:17 AM
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How is that irrelevant? He put himself on the front lines and people are dead.
This is exactly why kids don't need to be toting weapons or getting involved; they don't have the judgment or training for it.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: So the MSM and social media are portraying this as a guy
Aug 29, 2020, 7:25 AM
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Because it is absolutely irrelevant to the situation that he is charged with. He was there with a gun so he should be charged with murder? His crime is being too young with a gun. You really think he would have killed those people if he weren't being attacked? He was attacked. He defended himself. Case closed. I know if I were on the jury he would have no chance of being convicted. He has a better chance of walking than being convicted. It will be a hung jury at worst.
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All-TigerNet [13605]
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Re: So the MSM and social media are portraying this as a guy
Aug 29, 2020, 9:16 AM
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Hey, that girl in the revealing outfit got raped. Well, she was asking for trouble.
Thats exactly the SAME argument people are making when they use the "well, he was looking for trouble" argument.
No, the guy was attacked. He had a right to defend himself gun or no gun.
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Hall of Famer [20518]
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Re: So the MSM and social media are portraying this as a guy
Aug 29, 2020, 9:41 AM
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Again, the guy with the skateboard apparently thought it was an active shooter.
You can understand why he - and many others around him, apparently - thought that. There's a kid out there blasting away with a gun you know he shouldn't be holding, that's what everybody's going to see, especially the second they hear gunshots and reason goes right out the window and everybody goes into fight-or-flight mode.
This kid's misjudgment got two people killed and another shot. He should not have been there with that weapon, period. Anybody he killed with it is on him.
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All-TigerNet [13605]
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Re: So the MSM and social media are portraying this as a guy
Aug 29, 2020, 9:55 AM
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And i can understand why he thought he was being attacked.
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Standout [340]
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the idea of a wanton active shooter really doesn't fly
Aug 29, 2020, 9:57 AM
[ in reply to Re: So the MSM and social media are portraying this as a guy ] |
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the kid was being chased from another block and people were yelling to "get him". He was being chased by people - not engaging people. The initial shooting sequence was entirely separate form the 2nd shooting sequence except for the chasing from area to another. He was clearly heading for Police that were at the end of the street - he just never made it before he had to shoot back.
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All-TigerNet [13605]
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Re: So the MSM and social media are portraying this as a guy
Aug 29, 2020, 9:58 AM
[ in reply to Re: So the MSM and social media are portraying this as a guy ] |
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Also, to point out, there was other gun shots ringing out at the same time he was shooting.
Very possible he ALSO thought he was being shot at.
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Heisman Winner [111291]
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Re: So the MSM and social media are portraying this as a guy
Aug 29, 2020, 10:01 AM
[ in reply to Re: So the MSM and social media are portraying this as a guy ] |
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that in itself should be enough reason to get rid of open carry laws. Seems they serve little purpose than for people to intimidate others.
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Standout [340]
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Dear Bozo-zel, This is why your mind just ain't up to the
Aug 29, 2020, 7:23 AM
[ in reply to Re: So the MSM and social media are portraying this as a guy ] |
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task. You think you know ####, and you fall short just about every time.
Quite frankly on this one, I am generally with you as to why this kid should not walk. At least to start with. The boy should have been at home instead of on that street.
However, I have heard - totally unconfirmed as I am not a Lawyer - that Wisconsin has some interesting rules that might be different from the norm of protecting house & home in other states. If this is not true, then I apologize in advance for having been led astray. Some have suggested that he was Legal in both Open Carry on the street (notwithstanding but possibly even still with the out of State license), and that he was also legal in brandishing his weapon in defense of a storefront during a riot. Those are apparently both possibilities of the local Law, so I'm hesitant to suggest he was outside the Law even being from Out-of-state.
It appears pretty clear though that he was being "attacked" in both shooting instances, and in this he may find his redemption regardless the Gun Law and State issues. The question would be something like whether it was reasonable he feared for his life.
The thing that provides some validity to these thoughts is that he was not the only one on the street with a weapon - both rioters and those with him. He was also not the only one to shoot.
Of all the publicized shootings, this is the one that is the most questionable. In that, it's probably a good thing that he didn't shoot a Black person. The other shootings, Jacob Blake included, are all generally righteous shootings, and are not really argumentative except for the people given to Reverse Racism at this point. It will be interesting to see where this one lands. The fact they've got him for Murder 1 is meaningless - that's all just show for the Media and the interested Racial groups.
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Hall of Famer [20518]
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Re: Dear Bozo-zel, This is why your mind just ain't up to the
Aug 29, 2020, 7:43 AM
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Your usual insane hostility aside, that is actually interesting info regarding Wisconsin law, and I did not know that.
The thing that's going to get the kid crushed is intent, though. All the prosecutors have to do is get a hold of one statement indicating the kid had a desire to shoot somebody or a desire for confrontation and that's ball game - and the kid was all over social media. What was your filter level like at 17...well, actually, nevermind, you still don't have a filter. But social media is a permanent record and the kid left reams of material for a prosecutor to work with; showing intent or at least a criminal lack of judgment is not going to be particularly hard for them.
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Standout [340]
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actually the kid was telling everyone he was an EMT
Aug 29, 2020, 9:02 AM
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which is circumspect at 17 but oh well, and the story is that he helped treat some of the protestors earlier in the night.
So if anything, his intent was..... divided?
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Hall of Famer [20518]
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Re: actually the kid was telling everyone he was an EMT
Aug 29, 2020, 9:30 AM
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And the guy with the skateboard, per his girlfriend, thought he was being a hero and was trying to stop what he perceived as an active shooter situation.
You see some kid in the street with a machine gun blasting away, what the heck is he supposed to think? Hey, maybe the kid is justifiably defending himself with that illegally-procured weapon he's toting, so it's really ok?
That's how stuff gets nuts...and how people die.
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Heisman Winner [111291]
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watching those video interview
Aug 29, 2020, 9:51 AM
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the kid was obviously unbalanced, and was ripe for indoctrination into the world of far right wakos.
Turns out he was bullied as a middle schooler, so badly that his mother had to file a restraining oder against the other kid. So we have a kid that suffered abuse, with an overbearing mother and a love of guns and law enforcement. The pathology is pretty simple...
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Standout [340]
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she's lying - this just shows that the REAL problem is just
Aug 29, 2020, 9:53 AM
[ in reply to Re: actually the kid was telling everyone he was an EMT ] |
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how f*ckin stupid people are nowadays.
There's clear video of the kid running away from people and not aiming the gun. Then there's clear video of the skateboard guy and a couple of others chasing the kid.
Apparently they thought he wouldn't use his gun. But the kid has clearly used his gun before - of the shooters he was the calmest by far. The guy who got shot in the arm was standing over the kid with a pistol, likely got the first shot off, and still came out on the worst end of the deal.
To be honest, if there was some kind of a clear mandate that Troops and Police are not going to be used, then I'd be rooting him on. The guys he took out weren't dating the daughter material. And in the end, if it's going to be a militia-versus-militia battle, I'm thinking the hired gamers in Anti-fa will have no chance in h*ll against guys like the kid.
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Heisman Winner [111291]
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Re: she's lying - this just shows that the REAL problem is just
Aug 29, 2020, 10:04 AM
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hmmm, if somebody is capable of remaining that calm after shooting 2 people dead, I think it is safe to say they have some screws loose.
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Hall of Famer [20518]
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Re: she's lying - this just shows that the REAL problem is just
Aug 29, 2020, 11:11 AM
[ in reply to she's lying - this just shows that the REAL problem is just ] |
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Very few people think straight when the adrenaline kicks in...and you get just a heap of it once the shooting starts. You see it time and again when, say, cops start shooting...it's like: why the heck did they put 39 rounds into that guy?
Because they were juiced to the eyeballs on adrenaline, that's why, and people's rational judgment goes right out the window when it happens. Training people to stay calm in the face of that is exactly what training is all about...and even then, it doesn't always translate. A huge number of battlefield casualties are and always will be friendly fire...even among special forces. (This is a huge part of why I don't comment much on police shootings, I'm an ex-bouncer, I know exactly how hard it is to stay cool when the crazy happens.)
Somebody who's juiced up isn't going to notice or care that the kid was running. These were civilians, not combat vets. Somebody goes into go mode, they're not going to stop.
Bringing that gun, and then using it jacks the crazy up to about a million. Especially in the middle of a riot. Nobody was going to think straight after that.
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Standout [340]
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sigh... see this is what I get when these people are just
Aug 29, 2020, 11:15 AM
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given straight info.
Twist it for your purposes if you want. I prefer not to live in Neverland.
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CU Medallion [58367]
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And the convicted felons who chased him down and
Aug 29, 2020, 9:15 AM
[ in reply to Re: So the MSM and social media are portraying this as a guy ] |
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attacked him put themselves there also.
The Beirut-like street war, should it happen, would be 100% the fault of left-wing rioters, looters, and agitaters, and the feckless, twisted leftist politicians who supported them.
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Oculus Spirit [93604]
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CU Medallion [58367]
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The choice of headlines always reveals the bias.
Aug 29, 2020, 8:59 AM
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It's undeniable. It's not so much that the media is lying, but the words they use for a headline are intentionaly chosen to fit and/or create a specific narrative. Like with Jacob Blake, it was reported in most networks something like this: "ANOTHER AFRICAN AMERICAN MAN KILLED BY POLICE, THIS TIME SHOT IN THE BACK 7 TIMES IN FRONT OF HIS CHILDREN!" It could have just as easily, accurately, and truthfuly been reported as "Unrest as a black man is killed by police in Wisconsin". Or "Disturbing video shows African American man killed by police in Wisconsin". Instead, the words they chose made sure that the lie of police marauding across the country slaughtering black people continues (Another African American man) was reinforced. Then they made sure to drive home the assumption that this was unecessarily brutal and cruel by including "7 TIMES IN THE BACK" and "IN FRONT OF HIS CHILDREN", while leaving out relevant facts like he had a warrant for domestic abuse and sexual assault, he was not supposed to be on the premises (the reason the cops were called), and the shooting followed a struggle which included Blake being tased. So it very accurately and truthfuly could have been reported as "Man with warrant for domestic abuse and sexual offense is killed by police after resisting arrest". But that's not the way the media very consciously decided to spin it.
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Legend [18003]
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The right is defending this kid and portraying him as batman
Aug 29, 2020, 3:36 PM
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while at the same time condemning the supposed "silence" of the democrats on the riots as tacit approval sure informs you of where the narrative is on the far right.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: The right is defending this kid and portraying him as batman
Aug 29, 2020, 3:46 PM
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Legend [18003]
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Read that sentence and consider how it makes you look
Aug 29, 2020, 3:54 PM
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"quit rioting and acting out over political things or we will put you in the ground in self-defense."
What a disgusting narrative.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Read that sentence and consider how it makes you look
Aug 29, 2020, 3:58 PM
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Legend [18003]
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Until you deem "peacefully protesting" as "acting out"
Aug 29, 2020, 4:01 PM
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and decide to put those people in the ground.
Disgusting.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Until you deem "peacefully protesting" as "acting out"
Aug 29, 2020, 4:06 PM
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Legend [18003]
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I certainly can tell the difference. I'm worried you can't.
Aug 29, 2020, 4:08 PM
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That's the point. Based on what you've said, you have conflated the two. I think you're probably a rational and good guy, but the narrative you're buying into is dangerous and disgusting.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: I certainly can tell the difference. I'm worried you can't.
Aug 29, 2020, 4:17 PM
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Legend [18003]
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I agree with your last sentence.
Aug 29, 2020, 4:26 PM
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But, the militia people have no business being there. Their presence is an escalation. Let the cops and other trained professionals handle it. I think what we saw with this kid proves that point.
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Standout [340]
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actually deweather under Wisconsin Law they probably do
Aug 29, 2020, 6:18 PM
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have that right. You better go read up before making general statements.
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CU Medallion [58367]
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No, no, you see you are obligated to stand aside and allow
Aug 29, 2020, 4:16 PM
[ in reply to Re: Until you deem "peacefully protesting" as "acting out" ] |
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these peaceful protestors to destroy what you have worked for and built. You have no right to defend you property or your family - only the police can do that, but hey the police are the bad guys here so i wouldn't count on them. But you still have no right to stop them from running roughshod right over you. We all just have to let them do whatever it is they want to do. Maybe we should just give them what they want and hope they leave us alone?
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Legend [18003]
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No is making the argument you're making.***
Aug 29, 2020, 4:18 PM
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Legend [18003]
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"No *one*"***
Aug 29, 2020, 4:21 PM
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CU Medallion [58367]
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Fact: This kid was in illegal possesion of a gun. He was
Aug 29, 2020, 4:10 PM
[ in reply to The right is defending this kid and portraying him as batman ] |
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chased down by convicted felons and they tried to bash his skull in with a skateboard. He shot them as he was on his back while being attacked. Most Democrats have refused to even so much as hint at condemning rioters and looters who have assaulted hundreds of people and destroyed hundreds of millions of dollars worth of innocent people's property. Some Dems have justified it, while some heve even encouraged it. Go ahead and spin that any way you like.
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Legend [18003]
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We've talked about this already...
Aug 29, 2020, 4:17 PM
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https://www.tigernet.com/forum/message/Why-was-he-being-chased-27686392
Biden and others have condemned the rioting/damage to property and violence. I haven't seen any leaders encouraging it, but if it exists they should be condemned as pushing a disgusting and destructive narrative the same as I'm pushing back on with the right.
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