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Elephant in the room
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Elephant in the room


Jan 15, 2021, 11:27 AM

Increasingly it is looking like the Capitol rioters - at least a group or several groups of them - were organized. They had equipment, their timing was too good, and it's starting to come out that there was quite an extensive amount of planning involved. They intended to get in and they intended to kidnap or execute American officials.

If that is proven, they should hang. That's what you do with traitors.

But that's almost beside the point. The real question is this: what happens if it is established that there are verifiable links back between those groups and certain politicians or even those in Trump's inner circle? (Staring hard at you, Rudy Giuliani and Roger Stone.)

What then? Because I suspect there well could be and I'm troubled where that could take us.

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Re: Elephant in the room


Jan 15, 2021, 11:30 AM

First guess: your mom?

Second: Call Nancy! With all of that pre-planning, your B.S. “inciting” claim is out the window.

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lol


Jan 15, 2021, 11:43 AM

It wasn't just what he did on the 6th, he's been at it for a long time with all his election lies. He gave them plenty of time to plan.

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Yep, incitement started months before the election


Jan 15, 2021, 11:52 AM

and daily for the 2 months after the election.

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Re: lol


Jan 15, 2021, 12:00 PM [ in reply to lol ]

Really:
"if you don't fight like hell you're not going to have a country anymore." Thus incited by President Trump, members of the crowd he had addressed, in an attempt to, among other objectives, interfere with the Joint Session's solemn constitutional duty to certify the results of the 2020 Presidential election, unlawfully breached and vandalized the Capitol“

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Warning: Reading Required


Jan 15, 2021, 12:07 PM

It's a long thread.
https://twitter.com/HerreraBeutler/status/1349959279302897664?s=20


https://twitter.com/HerreraBeutler/status/1349959349679116288?s=20

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From the video I saw there was one Capitol cop


Jan 15, 2021, 11:30 AM

Trying to stop 25-30 people

How much prep does it take to get past one cop?

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Re: From the video I saw there was one Capitol cop


Jan 15, 2021, 11:32 AM

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/14/lawmakers-capitol-attackers-legal-459519


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Obviously, that's 0-brainer. Someone could also write an


Jan 15, 2021, 11:41 AM

article that starts out:

"If Joe Biden is proven to have colluded with the rioters, his position likely won't save him from criminal liability."

The statement is true, but it doesn't mean JB was in on it.

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Re: Obviously, that's 0-brainer. Someone could also write an


Jan 15, 2021, 11:52 AM

True, but Jim Clyburn thinks there were indeed.

Even more interestingly, Representative Mikie Sherrill of New Jersey also thinks there was. She apparently was one of the groups of Reps that reported what they regarded as "recon tours" of certain Reps giving groups of strangers tours of the building...and they reported this January 5th, the day before the riots broke out because it looked so sketchy.

Sherrill as about as far from AOC as you can get and still be in the Democratic Party. She's a former Naval helicopter pilot who served 10 years in the Navy, then went to Georgetown law school and became a prosecutor. She knows what "evidence" is; it's her stock-in-trade...and if she's the one making the accusation it seems likely she can back it up. Her committee assignments - House Armed Services Committee and Science, Space, and Technology committee. She is not a show pony like AOC; she's a workhorse and serious one based on how young she is and the committee assignments she got.

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The planning part was making sure that protocals were lax


Jan 15, 2021, 11:39 AM [ in reply to From the video I saw there was one Capitol cop ]

and that there would only be one cop to stop 25 people.

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Re: From the video I saw there was one Capitol cop


Jan 15, 2021, 12:00 PM [ in reply to From the video I saw there was one Capitol cop ]

Chem,

Just how LITTLE video have you seen ??

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Let’s not get ahead of ourselves. That’s a lot of “if’s”***


Jan 15, 2021, 11:31 AM



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There was some (poor) planning. Obviously, it would be


Jan 15, 2021, 11:35 AM

bigly huge if any of it was traced back to anyone important. But - I think that's quite a stretch to actually think that occurred.

I still say - if many of these folks were "All In" and actually believed they were going to be involved in a coup attempt - they would have brought more weapons (right?)

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Not necessarily.


Jan 15, 2021, 11:47 AM

If people on the inside did have a hand in planning this, then their goal wasn't to overthrow Congress. It was to have a few Congressmen taken hostage or executed so they could use it as an excuse to declare a state of emergency and martial law.

They would have been okay with their pawns failing so long as they could seize power. And that's all those little militiamen would have been to them. Just pawns.

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[Catahoula] used to be almost solely a PnR rascal, but now has adopted shidpoasting with a passion. -bengaline

You are the meme master. - RPMcMurphy®

Trump is not a phony. - RememberTheDanny


How long would martial law have lasted? A week?


Jan 15, 2021, 11:50 AM

If that was truly their goal - then they weren't thinking this thing through. "I'm going to go to jail for the rest of my life so Trump can be President for one more week."

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If they’d been successful in murdering congressmen


Jan 15, 2021, 11:53 AM

clearing Dem majorities so that Trumps objections would be upheld, would Trump and the GOP go along with overturning the election?

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Speaking of conspiracy theories...


Jan 15, 2021, 11:59 AM

If they MURDERED enough people to swing the vote?! They didn't bring any weapons!

Also - do you really think if someone murdered all of the Democrats, the end result would be - "Well, I guess Trump gets to keep being President."

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Not a theory just a hypothetical I’ve been kicking around.


Jan 15, 2021, 12:14 PM

I think the majority of the GOP wouldn’t go along with that, but Trump would be pushing for it no matter what happened.

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That's a great question...


Jan 15, 2021, 11:54 AM [ in reply to How long would martial law have lasted? A week? ]

We don't know. That's uncharted territory.

See, your last quote isn't really getting in their head. In their minds, they think they're going to be successful in their coup, overthrow Congress, and keep Trump as president.

If someone on Trump's inner circle organized this, that's not their mentality. Their mentality was that the extremists would get in there, ultimately fail, but do enough damage to declare state of emergency.

2024 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

[Catahoula] used to be almost solely a PnR rascal, but now has adopted shidpoasting with a passion. -bengaline

You are the meme master. - RPMcMurphy®

Trump is not a phony. - RememberTheDanny


That's where this "inner circle" idea loses me.


Jan 15, 2021, 12:09 PM

I actually think there were some Yay-Hoos who believed they were going to accomplish something.

But most people would have thought about "OK - what happens next?" Trump's folks are idiots, but they're not stupid - well, not THAT stupid. So, I just don't think they would have been involved - because they knew that ultimately, it wouldn't work. (Where "work" means Trump stays President..)

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Re: That's where this "inner circle" idea loses me.


Jan 15, 2021, 12:20 PM

Trump doesn't plan per se. He surfs chaos. His M.O. has always been: lob a grenade or several into the room to blow it up, then come rampaging in screaming and yelling about the mess.

He just sort of blows things up, and then when everything hits the fans just sits there with that smirk on his face you want to wipe off with a baseball bat. I think this was that, done bigly and in mostly plain sight. And then he made sure his own people were in place to give orders when it happened. At the time, his moving his personal guys in place to take charge of the AG's office, Homeland Security, and the Defense Department raised eyebrows and concern in a lot of places and looked like the first stages of a coup, but then everybody for whatever reason said: "Naw. Could never happen."

Then this happened. And it looks very much like Donald deliberately turned a mob loose on the very politicians who could stop him.

Chaos is his thing. He feed off it like a vampire bat.



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If that was the plan - then Trump will be fine. Because


Jan 15, 2021, 12:34 PM

he'll be pardoned by reason of insanity.

Perhaps I'm naive, but I just can't make myself believe that someone would think that would work in the US of A.

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Re: If that was the plan - then Trump will be fine. Because


Jan 15, 2021, 12:40 PM

It can work anywhere.

If they had gotten ahold of Pence and several key members of Congress, America might look very different right now. We could well be in the middle of something far, far worse.

This is oddly, very similar to what happened when a pro-Russian separatist mobs in the Ukraine in 2014. Almost like they're using the same playbook....

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-27030365


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In this situation


Jan 15, 2021, 1:35 PM [ in reply to That's where this "inner circle" idea loses me. ]

Until there is more evidence, I'm going to err on the side of "Trump and his people were just too stupid to realize what they were pushing the crowd to really do".

But Trump has a lot of very sinister people around him who do not respect our democracy, and he's in that camp, too.

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[Catahoula] used to be almost solely a PnR rascal, but now has adopted shidpoasting with a passion. -bengaline

You are the meme master. - RPMcMurphy®

Trump is not a phony. - RememberTheDanny


Re: Not necessarily.


Jan 15, 2021, 11:55 AM [ in reply to Not necessarily. ]

That's exactly what I think.

They wanted it to get totally out of control. State of Emergency, followed by martial law. He had all his "acting" loyalists in charge at the key agencies - Justice, Homeland Security, and the Secretary of Defense.

If this is true it's all going to start pouring out. You know nobody in Trumpland can keep a secret to save their own lives.

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Some brought pitchforks some brought pipe bombs.


Jan 15, 2021, 11:49 AM [ in reply to There was some (poor) planning. Obviously, it would be ]

There was the one guy who parked his truck and trailer full of guns and molotov cocktails a few blocks away.

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Yes - one guy.


Jan 15, 2021, 11:53 AM

Steve. You knock the windows out. Fred. You get the zip ties. Tom. You bring some weapons.

That is definitely a plan. But it's a bad one - and there probably weren't a lot of folks in on it.

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Does that make it better or worse?


Jan 15, 2021, 12:13 PM

These guys weren't the best n brightest and still managed to breach the Capitol with explosives. Personally, I am looking for whoever leaked the plans of the building and tunnels. Maybe it's nothing, but if it turns out a member of Congress was actively involved it becomes a whole other thing.

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I agree entirely. (Although I don't think the guy brought


Jan 15, 2021, 12:45 PM

the explosives into the Capitol.) If a member on Congress helped - that's huge. I just think that's a huge IF.

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Re: I agree entirely. (Although I don't think the guy brought


Jan 15, 2021, 12:24 PM

I think the pipe bombs were in one of the buildings across the street where our officials have their offices, not the Capitol itself. The trailer full of guns and molotovs was over by Cap South.

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Yessir. At the DNC and RNC - I hope they catch that guy. But


Jan 15, 2021, 12:35 PM

he wasn't dumb enough to not wear a mask...

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There’s also this


Jan 15, 2021, 11:37 AM

https://news.yahoo.com/exclusive-large-bitcoin-payments-to-rightwing-activists-a-month-before-capitol-riot-linked-to-foreign-account-181954668.html


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It's slowly starting to filter out.


Jan 15, 2021, 11:38 AM

I know it's popular to say that they looked like disorganized tourists, and most of them probably were just that. But there seems to be a LOT of circumstantial evidence that there was a more focused, organized group with some specific intents. That they didn't succeed doesn't minimize the seriousness of what was (potentially) attempted.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-capitol-arrests/u-s-says-capitol-rioters-meant-to-capture-and-assassinate-officials-filing-idUSKBN29K0K7?il=0

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Re: It's slowly starting to filter out.


Jan 15, 2021, 11:52 AM

Those who would have planned it also knew they needed a mob of idiot "disorganized tourists". That's just to get the hardliners in the door, like zip tie fascist.

And if organized by higher powers, that's what they needed. Extremists like him to go in and off some Congressmen so they could seize power through "state of emergency".

2024 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

[Catahoula] used to be almost solely a PnR rascal, but now has adopted shidpoasting with a passion. -bengaline

You are the meme master. - RPMcMurphy®

Trump is not a phony. - RememberTheDanny


Yep. There are still a metric ton of "ifs", but IF this


Jan 15, 2021, 11:57 AM

event was being puppet-mastered, Congressional hostages, or worse, executions, are all that's needed to declare a state of emergency, declare martial law, suspend government (and Presidential transitions, by default). Now, that sounds like something out of Hollywood so I'm not ready to make that leap yet, but what if one of the zip tie guys had found a Pelosi or Shumer or Schiff or AOC? How different could/would this week possibly be?

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Hanging is illegal in the United States


Jan 15, 2021, 11:42 AM

well a couple States can still do it but not the feds

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Perfectly legal at Gitmo though. -Q***


Jan 15, 2021, 11:45 AM



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There's always catapult.


Jan 15, 2021, 11:46 AM [ in reply to Hanging is illegal in the United States ]



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Re: Elephant in the room


Jan 15, 2021, 11:45 AM

I know it's easy to rush to the "treason" word, but we always have to remember that our founding fathers were very, very specific about that charge, and for reason: Treason under our Constitution's definition is ONLY for aiding a foreign enemy against the U.S. They knew if that definition included opposing the government, future potential tyrants would abuse it to execute opponents.

But you can definitely make a sedition case. If what you say turns out to be the case (and man, I sure hope it is), they should go to prison for the rest of their lives. Especially if Trump even had an inkling of knowledge about it, he goes too.

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[Catahoula] used to be almost solely a PnR rascal, but now has adopted shidpoasting with a passion. -bengaline

You are the meme master. - RPMcMurphy®

Trump is not a phony. - RememberTheDanny


Re: Elephant in the room


Jan 15, 2021, 11:57 AM

It looks like President Trump's speech did not incite any kind of insurrection, if what you are intimating is true. A more likely scenario is that these were Antifa/BLM plants to thwart the legitimate questions regarding election legitimacy under consideration by the house. Maybe we should wait and see before rushing to judgement. We can all condemn the violence, whoever is responsible for it.

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That's absolutely not the most likely scenario at all.***


Jan 15, 2021, 12:05 PM



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"plants", eh? It's time to come back from The Twilight Zone.***


Jan 15, 2021, 12:11 PM [ in reply to Re: Elephant in the room ]



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lol***


Jan 15, 2021, 12:23 PM [ in reply to Re: Elephant in the room ]



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So lemme get this straight, and I'm repreating what I read


Jan 15, 2021, 12:29 PM [ in reply to Re: Elephant in the room ]

back to you to make sure I understood what you said.

ANTIFA/BLM planned an attack on the capitol, KNOWING that they could use Trump's own supporters in a false flag operation to do the dirty work of the rioting. They also knew what Trump was going to say in his speech, AND knew that Trump wasn't going to call in the National Guard until the 6th time he was asked to do so..allowing more time for the ANTIFA member(singular) to incite even MORE pro-trumper supporters to riot.

This is super secret pic of you figuring all this out:



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Re: Elephant in the room


Jan 15, 2021, 11:58 AM

Q,

I take your point. I think it is possible that the FBI is finding a number of very concerning pieces of evidence that indicates some very serious intent (and possible gov't connections). But I think we have to be very careful and wait for the evidence to come out.

There are very serious charges - and consequences to be considered here and I wouldn't want to see suspicion and innuendo get tangled up with the facts. It will be interesting to watch how the evidence plays out and who will reveal what about intentions and connections.

The wheels of justice grind slowly, but exceedingly fine.

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Re: Elephant in the room


Jan 15, 2021, 12:12 PM

I would like to point out that this thread is an excellent microcosm about how a conspiracy theory gains momentum. If you will go back and read the thread from the beginning, you can observe the suspicion, innuendo, and supposed connections growing before your eyes. People are starting to make assumptions into facts in their own minds.

Q,
What started as an interesting question is beginning to be built into answers - on a shakier and shakier attachment to the facts.

I hope we can all suspend judgement for a few days to see where the actual reality takes us. Let us also watch for this same conspiracy devolution to occur in the press and in social media.

These are incredibly serious charges and they need to viewed skeptically until the evidence is before us.

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Re: Elephant in the room


Jan 15, 2021, 12:22 PM

Oh, I agree. And I'll posit this - I hope I'm wrong.

But Trump is not subtle. If he did what I think the evidence is only buried an inch deep and is not going to be hard at all to find...and it won't take long.

We'll have a really good idea within a couple weeks, I'm fairly sure.

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My conspiracy theory of the day


Jan 15, 2021, 12:36 PM

I think Trump had someone plan the attack, in some convoluted attempt at enabling the insurrection act, martial law, and delaying the vote count.

That's been the strategery I read about weeks ago on conspriacy web sites (but not that exact, obviously). But as far fetched as it sounds, when you see what happened and it's outcome, it looks like something that Rudy or Trump would have planned.

BTW..conspiracy idiots are STILL saying that Trump will be president on Jan 20.

Even with the moving vans cleaning out the whitehouse.

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LOL. If they wanted to kidnap or execute American officials, they would’ve.


Jan 15, 2021, 1:31 PM



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"Anybody that says Coach Brownell is the best coach to come through Clemson is going to start an argument." -JP Hall


Explain.


Jan 15, 2021, 1:36 PM

Because there were people inside there who had that in mind. The FBI has confirmed that today.

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[Catahoula] used to be almost solely a PnR rascal, but now has adopted shidpoasting with a passion. -bengaline

You are the meme master. - RPMcMurphy®

Trump is not a phony. - RememberTheDanny


Re: LOL. If they wanted to kidnap or execute American officials, they would’ve.


Jan 15, 2021, 2:04 PM [ in reply to LOL. If they wanted to kidnap or execute American officials, they would’ve. ]

So...you think all those people looking for Nancy Pelosi and Jim Clyburn and AOC and yelling "hang Mike Pence!" were just joking?

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Re: Elephant in the room


Jan 17, 2021, 7:15 PM

I am more concerned with why HRC gets to create a DIY email server for one of the most important positions on the Globe, sends/receives classified email, destroys evidence (phones), funds the Steele Dossier which launches a fake witch hunt and fake impeachment.

While you sit there and try to imagine the punishment for the "attack on our democracy" and other BS that you and the rest of the left is crying about, maybe you need to look backwards and see that the attack on our democracy started when elected and appointed government leaders of the Obama Admin tried to take down Trump even before he was sworn in.

It has been their focus for over four years. This violence was a gift to them (if the left in fact did not start it and plant it). Pelosi and the sheep now feel vindicated for everything they did the past four years.

That's bullchit - I don't buy it for a second.

We know there were leftists plants at the 6 Jan Trump rally. I want to know what each one of them did. I want to know why Capital security stood by (some did, some did not) and let people inside the capital.

BTW: last person charged or maybe found guilty of treason was way back - I think in the 1950s. If it happens here, the feds deserve the civil war they may get in response.

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