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YOUR BALANCE
Comparing Purnell's and Brownell's Recruiting Classes
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Comparing Purnell's and Brownell's Recruiting Classes


Feb 1, 2019, 11:37 PM

I keep reading posts here about how Brownell is a bad recruiter, so I thought I would research our recruiting classes since 2004 to compare Brownell's to Purnell's classes. Below are the recruiting rankings each year according to 247 Sports, starting with Purnell's first recruiting class at Clemson.

Oliver Purnell
2004: National rank 32, ACC rank 7; one 4-star, three 3-stars
2005: National rank 257, ACC rank 13; one 4-star, two 3-stars
2006: National rank 42, ACC rank 10; one 4-star, three 3-stars
2007: National rank 61, ACC rank 13; two 3-stars, one 2-star
2008: National rank 30, ACC rank 8; two 4-stars, one 3-star, one 2-star
2009: National rank 15, ACC rank 5; one 5-star, three 4-stars

Brad Brownell
2010: National rank 280, ACC rank 15; one 2-star
2011: National rank 40, ACC rank 8; one 4-star, four 3-stars
2012: National rank 44, ACC rank 11; one 4-star, four 3-stars
2013: National rank 78, ACC rank 14; two 3-stars, one 2-star
2014: National rank 80, ACC rank 12; one 4-star, one 3-star
2015: National rank 82, ACC rank 14; one 4-star, one 3-star
2016: National rank 116, ACC rank 15; one 3-star
2017: National rank 46, ACC rank 9; one 4-star, three 3-stars
2018: National rank 60, ACC rank 10; three 3-stars
2019: National rank 34, ACC rank 6; one 4-star, two 3-stars

It is interesting to see that neither coach has any top 25 classes, except for Purnell's 2009 class ranked #15. That class had 5-star Milton Jennings, and 4-stars Noel Johnson, Devin Booker, and Donte Hill. Unfortunately, none of those guys became stars.

Brownell's best class so far is his 2019 class, ranked #34. However, it is worth noting that transfers aren't included in these rankings. Transfers weren't a "thing" until recently, and that has greatly changed the recruiting landscape since Purnell left Clemson. It would be interesting to see how Brownell's recruiting classes would rank if transfers could somehow be included. Elijah Thomas was a 4-star, top 30 player coming out of high school, and Shelton Mitchell was a 4-star, top 100 player. Getting transfers to sign with you certainly counts as recruiting, but I don't know how to assign star values to players at that point since many of them didn't perform to expectations in college prior to transferring.

I think we can all agree that recruiting needs to improve, but it hasn't been bad, and it has certainly been better the last few years. I'm sure the new facility has helped. It's too bad Brownell has narrowly missed on some huge prospects lately. Getting just one of those guys would likely open the door for us to get more.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


by the standard that counts, wins and losses, Brownell's


Feb 2, 2019, 12:21 AM

recruiting has not been good. We won't build a program based on transfers, we will build a program based on evaluating and developing or properly using high school and post graduate talent. We caught lightening in a bottle to get Reed, Mitchell, Thomas, Donnal and Skara together to play 2 or 3 years; that is totally an outlier.
Brownell has to get better at getting the talent that can compete in conference against anybody. We won't be an NCAA tourney team consistently finishing 7th or lower more often than not. I really don't think that finishing inside the top 6 more often than not is unfair to ask; 6th place or better keeps us in the tourney invite discussion because there should be enough wins against tourney caliber teams in the record...

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Way to completely change the topic.


Feb 2, 2019, 3:54 PM

The point was to discuss recruiting rankings. Obviously a lot has to happen after that, including coaching, game planning, and player development, with the hope being that the team wins a lot of games.

But since you brought up wins, what does it say about Purnell’s recruiting that we didn’t win a single NCAA Tournament game while he was here? Brad has three NCAA Tournament wins here, and counting...

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: Comparing Purnell's and Brownell's Recruiting Classes


Feb 2, 2019, 12:58 AM

Foul on Booker.



Yeah, I know it’s Trevor but it’s one of my favorite pictures.

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"Anybody that says Coach Brownell is the best coach to come through Clemson is going to start an argument." -JP Hall


That used to be my screen saver back in the day.


Feb 2, 2019, 6:28 PM

Man, those were some fun teams to watch.

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Re: Comparing Purnell's and Brownell's Recruiting Classes


Feb 2, 2019, 8:53 AM

“It hasn’t been bad”

Good lord. It took 10 years for Brownell to bring in a class ranked higher than 40th. Purnell did it first year and had 3 total in only 6 years. The fact that he was able to bring in a top 15 class alone shuts the door on your argument.

It’s also worth mentioning that Brownell inherited a program that was winning and recruiting like never before from Purnell. We all know the dumpster fire Purnell inherited.

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it's bad.. it's real bad. we need top 25 classes every year***


Feb 2, 2019, 9:01 AM



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I’m not making an argument. The point is to look at recruiting rankings.


Feb 2, 2019, 3:58 PM [ in reply to Re: Comparing Purnell's and Brownell's Recruiting Classes ]

But since you brought it up, Purnell’s 15th ranked class was a joke. Milton Jennings wasn’t a real 5 star. If he were, programs like Duke and UNC would’ve wanted him. But they didn’t.

Noel Johnson a high 4-star? LOL. Okay.

Purnell recruited some nice players along the way, like KC Rivers, Demontez Stitt, and Trevor Booker. He couldn’t coach them to any postseason success though.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: I’m not making an argument. The point is to look at recruiting rankings.


Feb 2, 2019, 5:14 PM

So what was your point with this thread? To show us that Purnell recruited better than Brownell? Everybody already knows that.

All you have is the hypothetical argument that Purnell missed on recruits. You have no idea how they would have played in his system which they were recruited to play in.

But that’s besides the point anyway. Our program was on the map and bringing in players that didn’t even look at Clemson before Purnell. That’s not the case now.

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Why are you always arguing? Do you act like this in real life?


Feb 2, 2019, 6:16 PM

Chill out, man.

The point was to find some numerical data to see if the often mentioned statements like “Brownell can’t recruit” are fair or not. I don’t think he is a bad recruiter, but I do think it needs to improve (as has been true for all Clemson’s basketball coaches).

Your point about Purnell putting our program on the map is funny. Teams aren’t viewed as relevant unless they show up in the NCAA Tournament, and Purnell’s never did (at Clemson it anywhere else).

Purnell is a good program revitalizer, but has never shown an ability to go beyond that.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


I vaguely remember us beating duke in the acc tournament


Feb 2, 2019, 6:34 PM

on one of the Cliff Hammonds teams. I always felt like we had a shot in every game when we took the court.

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Re: Comparing Purnell's and Brownell's Recruiting Classes


Feb 2, 2019, 8:58 AM

How about compare brads classes vs rick Barnes who by the way did not have upgraded facilities.

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I was going to, but didn’t find any rankings that go back that far.


Feb 2, 2019, 4:02 PM

I think Rick is a great coach, but other than getting lucky with Buckner and McIntyre, he didn’t recruit any standout 4-5 star players as far as I know.

Those two guys, plus some bruisers down low like Wideman and Jamison, were the core of his successful teams.

In my opinion, he didn’t really get much talent to restock the cupboard and that is a main reason why he left. I believe Purnell largely left for the same reason.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: Comparing Purnell's and Brownell's Recruiting Classes


Feb 2, 2019, 9:43 AM

I agree with what you said. Especially about the transfers. Transfers are becoming a big part of college basketball and not just Clemson. One big time recruit can get our program going and I’m confidant coach B can find the right guy.
We have had a few close losses this year that really stings. Just a few baskets at the right time would have us back in the mix and probably ranked. Big game tomorrow. I can’t recall the Tigers getting to play on Super Bowl Sunday before. Hope the crowd is big and loud! Perhaps a lot of national exposure in this game.



ps. I accidentally TD you so forgive. Early in the morning for me!

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Re: Comparing Purnell's and Brownell's Recruiting Classes


Feb 2, 2019, 9:58 AM

I TD your post so now y’all are even.










JK

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Purnell recruited pretty well until the end. He left BB


Feb 2, 2019, 11:25 AM

with a good group of seniors with virtually nothing in the lower classes. He had a very nice run but like most coaches at Clemson, he ran out of steam. Rick Barnes 2nd class was stellar and big. We lived off that group plus Buckner for the next 3 years but Rick had no follow up. CU for what ever reason is a place that can't build a program. A team now and then but no consistency. Maybe one of these days we get a Dabo of hoops. Looks like BB may be heading back to the crapper after all these seniors leave.

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Orange Googlers Unite

Save Tigernet--Boot the coots(you know who I mean).


Re: Purnell recruited pretty well until the end. He left BB


Feb 2, 2019, 11:38 AM

mile has the wisdom of age.. and watching a LOT of CU hoops. no one.. including tates.. has ever sustained a program at CU. Barnes and OP got out as their programs were starting to head down. as mile said, the upper class they left was pretty good... but the underclassmen... not so much. does that mean we shouldn't try to be great? hell no! it just means its a tough job, for a number of reasons. is BB the guy? i don't know. i just know i'll fight a circle saw for him as long as he is in the position. when he leaves, be it tomorrow or 20 years from now.. i'll be behind the next guy.

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Re: Purnell recruited pretty well until the end. He left BB


Feb 2, 2019, 1:56 PM [ in reply to Purnell recruited pretty well until the end. He left BB ]

What do you mean he ran out of steam? If he had stayed look at the players he would have had the next 3-4 years that left. His last class was the highest ranked in Clemson history. The program was on the map.

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Brad arrived fairly late well after recruiting was over.


Feb 2, 2019, 3:50 PM

the 2010 class was really Purnell's. one 2 star. Not exactly Full Steam ahead.

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Orange Googlers Unite

Save Tigernet--Boot the coots(you know who I mean).


Purnell missed badly on some guys and he knew the talent level was declining.


Feb 2, 2019, 4:04 PM [ in reply to Re: Purnell recruited pretty well until the end. He left BB ]

That is the main reason why he took the DePaul job.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: Purnell recruited pretty well until the end. He left BB


Feb 2, 2019, 6:40 PM [ in reply to Re: Purnell recruited pretty well until the end. He left BB ]

what purnell left: Stitt and j grant, SRs
tanner smith, andre young, jrs
noel johnson, d booker, milton jennings, narcisse, bobo- sophs andFr.

do i see a pattern here?

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Re: Purnell recruited pretty well until the end. He left BB


Feb 2, 2019, 7:08 PM

I see an improvement in star talent when it comes to recruiting.

If we’re talking player development I see upperclassmen that overachieved under Purnell and underclassmen who underachieved under other coaches.

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which upperclassmen specifically overachieved and how?***


Feb 2, 2019, 7:48 PM



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Re: Comparing Purnell's and Brownell's Recruiting Classes


Feb 2, 2019, 11:47 AM

BB has never been able to recruit. Look how his inability to do this will look next year. It already is making a difference this year with no depth off the bench. Without those four transfers we would not have made it to the tourney last year and his streak of not making it to the tourney would be in tact. Also, his inability to coach at the end of games does not help

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Re: Comparing Purnell's and Brownell's Recruiting Classes


Feb 2, 2019, 12:11 PM

didn't BB "recruit" eli, skara, reed and mitchell? it ain't like they had no other options

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Why do you act like getting transfers isn’t recruiting?


Feb 2, 2019, 7:44 PM [ in reply to Re: Comparing Purnell's and Brownell's Recruiting Classes ]

It’s the same as signing high school seniors in terms of hosting them for visits and getting them to sign.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Well we never have to worry about Brad going somepalce


Feb 2, 2019, 3:51 PM

else like Ollie did. Turned out Ollie wasn't much of a coach anyways.

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Re: Comparing Purnell's and Brownell's Recruiting Classes


Feb 2, 2019, 4:09 PM

We’ve been paying Brad Brownell since 2010?!!!

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Maybe I'm wrong but for me, it's not just about sheer


Feb 2, 2019, 4:37 PM

numbers. Some of it is about what each coach recruited to fit his style. OP seemed to after athletes who could run do here could play his press and running style. In my opinion part of the reasons for his early tourney exits. When we c came up on a team that had guards that could break that press, didn't have allot to fall back on. With Barnes, as you mentioned, he had some bruisers down low sprinkled in some talent like Buckner so he could play that tough defensive style. I'm just not sure Brad has hit on fitting whatever niche his style is. We can't go toe to toe talent wise recruiting with some of the other teams so he has to recruit and develop his style guys to be competitive.

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