Between the COVID response, support of Trump, and THIS, I am
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CU Medallion [55664]
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Oculus Spirit [97677]
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: Lol.
Feb 14, 2021, 2:37 PM
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Oculus Spirit [97677]
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I disagree. I think the net effect of religion is to get
Feb 14, 2021, 2:40 PM
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bad people to do good things who would otherwise not do good things. And yes, you have the good people who will always do good. But add in religion and you have the good people still doing good, plus a portion of the bad doing good. Better than nothing.
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: I disagree. I think the net effect of religion is to get
Feb 14, 2021, 3:55 PM
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Tig
We will just have to disagree. I think it is human connections that lead to good actions. Throw in the supernatural and you get the kind of tribalism and judgmentalism (?) that leads to the atrocities that have been connected to religion across the centuries.
But to each his own.
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: Between the COVID response, support of Trump, and THIS, I am
Feb 14, 2021, 2:34 PM
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The further you step away the better you will feel.
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Rock Defender [53]
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What?
Feb 14, 2021, 2:40 PM
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CU Medallion [55664]
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If you don’t know who RZ was, you’re not an Evangelical.***
Feb 14, 2021, 2:52 PM
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All-In [31864]
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Lol...I've never heard of him either...
Feb 14, 2021, 7:23 PM
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You make a pretty broad statement here.
I'm a Methodist currently attending a Baptist-affiliated church FWIW.
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110%er [5650]
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Re: Between the COVID response, support of Trump, and THIS, I am
Feb 14, 2021, 4:25 PM
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I think I know where you are coming from, but like T3 says, this guy sounds like a real fringe kinda guy.
But on the broader topic of big church/religious organizations, I too am suspect about them. They generate large ruling bureaucracies. The bigger they get, the more power they have, and the more chance for corruption. Power and money is what starts it.
Internal politics are a big problem in most orgs. They burn a lot of energy and money in that area.
It was eye opening for me to learn about the United Methodist Church and how the money we collect locally goes upstream to the big guys for the most part. So then you start looking at what the "big church" is doing with your money. In the UMC case, I don't like a lot of what they are doing.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Between the COVID response, support of Trump, and THIS, I am
Feb 14, 2021, 7:05 PM
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All-TigerNet [12573]
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Re: Between the COVID response, support of Trump, and THIS, I am
Feb 14, 2021, 6:03 PM
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That article was very disappointing. Zacharias was a gifted speaker and writer. As evil and depraved as he now appears to be, I am even more disappointed in those who enabled this predator. I've never understood how supposed people of God manage to justify such actions and somehow manage to compartmentalize their lives. There are people who are not who they outwardly seem to be, but how someone could knowingly excuse such behavior is a complete travesty. Ravi Zacharias would not have been high on my list to have been shown to be a complete fraud and my cynicism radar is always on alert.
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Legend [17888]
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Re: Between the COVID response, support of Trump, and THIS, I am
Feb 14, 2021, 6:21 PM
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How sad it is to see this article. I cannot apologize for him, nor can I offer any excuse for the things he may have done. I can say that he did not do any of the things reported because he was told to do so by God. He did them of his own evil and misguided desires.
For you, APM, I can only say this, if you allow your opinion to be rested in the heights by personality appearances then you will take exceptional chance at falling with a crash. Part of the problem is a direct result in people (you & me) feeling a connection with a celebrity but not really having a personal relationship with said celebrity. And without that close relationship - i mean real face to face let's take our families camping/coming over for dinner/ got a tee time for Saturday yet kind of relationship - then you don't know the person at all. What you know is simply what has been "highlighted" through the media.
God is still trustworthy. His servants, with whom you have relationship, are still trustworthy - unless they prove otherwise. But don't put them on a pedestal. And never step back from God. Step closer. Talk with Him and all will be well.
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CU Medallion [55664]
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Thank you. But again, the ignorant COVID response, the
Feb 15, 2021, 8:20 AM
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ignorant support of Trump and the mile-long list of celeb pastors who have fallen (RZ just happens to be the latest), plus a year of not going to church physically has broken me of the habit of wanting to support Big Church, Inc.
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Legend [17888]
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Re: Thank you. But again, the ignorant COVID response, the
Feb 15, 2021, 10:41 AM
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Understandable. Not trying to say one should support "big" church. I am faithfully rooted in the local church is best mentality. Small churches are good... I am in a small church myself. My concern is that one "falls away". That begins with, "I don't need to go to church because I can watch church on my tv." Then...this - and it moves to the, "I am done with church" mentality.
And if by "big church" you mean any organized body that gathers, then you are off base altogether about what the church is meant to be. Certainly is not meant to be a "stand alone" situation.
Not trying to sound critical. But if you don't let the misguided works of others keep you from doing what you like, then this will not keep you from church. Afterall, church is not a hotel for the saints, it is a hospital for the sinner.
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All-TigerNet [13027]
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Re: Between the COVID response, support of Trump, and THIS, I am
Feb 14, 2021, 8:21 PM
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I started “The Church of Skatan” many years ago at my house, as a way to try to become tax exempt. It didn’t work of course, but if you want to join, 100% of the funds go to maintaining the half-pipe and beer.
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: Between the COVID response, support of Trump, and THIS, I am
Feb 14, 2021, 8:30 PM
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Well, at least that is a church I might be able to get behind.
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CU Medallion [59982]
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I think some are digging too deep into
Feb 15, 2021, 8:33 AM
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what you mean here and your intentions. I get it, 100%. I get what you are saying. When I see my friends and myself giving and giving, loving on others and overall just trying to be our best and help out others.......I then see “Church Leaders” who are supposed to be leading their communities, do nothing, but hold out a hand for a donation.
I get what you are saying. This is why I cannot attend one of those mega churches. I even struggle with how affluent my church is and how the people in the pews are some of the most wealthy in our State, but really do nothing and you don’t see them giving of themselves.
I question it all too. Can I just love my neighbors and help them....raise my kids as Christians and love my God, believe in the story of Jesus and still accomplish the same? Without the church? I think so and that bothers me.
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Legend [17888]
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Re: I think some are digging too deep into
Feb 15, 2021, 10:53 AM
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Again, not trying to sound to critical - but if you go to church to see that others are doing, and measuring their work against your expectations, then you are going for the wrong reasons to begin with. You are as much a part of the problems in a church as anybody else.
Do you realize that the 10 commandments teach how to love God (1-4), to love family (5), and to love our neighbor (6-10); that this is a lesson on what we are expected to give to others without any word that we should expect anything in return?
Don't find peace and gratification in the church by measuring the works of the church. You are there to worship God.... not men.
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CU Medallion [59982]
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Who goes to church to measure themselves against
Feb 15, 2021, 11:02 AM
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others? That is ridiculous.
I am just saying that I see a lot of people I go to chruch with that are affluent, show up, leave and next Sunday is the next time you see them. You do not see them feeding the homeless, giving their money to help causes or trying to be on committees to make a difference. Right now we have 2 BOT spots open and we cannot get anyone to fill the spot.
I just get frustrated at the lack of involvement in the Community by church members and their Pastors/Leaders preaching for change, but never contributing to change and only looking for handouts. (Looking at you black ministers of Detroit)
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Legend [17888]
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Re: Who goes to church to measure themselves against
Feb 15, 2021, 11:26 AM
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Well, I certainly cannot speak to your community, or church leadership. I can speak to you about mine; I work a full time job, M-F (8-5) and pastor a church full time. I take vacation time to do funerals at a family's request and receive not even a $25 gratuity - they give me a smile and leave me to help clean up. I do weddings, with counseling (at least 4 meetings) and take vacation (if needed) to perform the ceremony - and have never received more than $20 with a card thanking me for my time. I have had to cancel my own vacation plans because church member needs came first.
I still hold services on Wednesday night, Sunday morning and Night, and visit in hospital those of my church family (and others as requested) as needed. Would you (Do you) expect more from me? Since I have not included any specific community actions?
I certainly understand the frustrations of church work. But it is not my place, nor anyone else's, to expect they should see signs of anothers work - especially in their giving.
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110%er [8949]
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Re: Between the COVID response, support of Trump, and THIS, I am
Feb 15, 2021, 11:03 AM
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its always been just you and God
glad you figured it out
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