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110%er [6401]
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H.R. 1 - Democrat's effort to seize permanent power
Mar 2, 2021, 11:29 AM
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Anybody bothered reading any of H.R.1, sponsored in part by that paragon of virtue, Nancy Pelosi?
Here's a little tidbit...
(4) (A) Congress also finds that it has authority to legislate to eliminate racial discrimination in voting and the democratic process pursuant to both section 5 of the Fourteenth Amendment, which grants equal protection of the laws, and section 2 of the Fifteenth Amendment, which explicitly bars denial or abridgment of the right to vote on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.
(B) Congress finds that racial discrimination in access to voting and the political process persists. Voting restrictions, redistricting, and other electoral practices and processes continue to disproportionately impact communities of color in the United States and do so as a result of both intentional racial discrimination, structural racism, and the ongoing structural socioeconomic effects of historical racial discrimination.
Of course that's just a smidge of yet another intentionally voluminous and barely decipherable bill which no one who votes on it will read, but if you take the time to do a least a cursory review, it's pretty clear what the purpose is. Permanent Democrat control.
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All-In [46801]
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Democrats: LET BLACK PEOPLE VOTE!
Mar 2, 2021, 11:31 AM
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Republicans: STOP TRYING TO MAKE US LOSE!
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All-TigerNet [13029]
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Re: Democrats: LET BLACK PEOPLE VOTE!
Mar 2, 2021, 11:37 AM
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Let everyone vote, in person, with an ID. Doesn’t get anymore fair than that.
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All-In [34486]
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Well I think you should have to do 15 jumping
Mar 2, 2021, 11:49 AM
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jacks and pat your head while chewing bubble gum to be able to vote.
Just because I say so.
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All-In [26479]
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Good one***
Mar 2, 2021, 12:33 PM
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All-In [26968]
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110%er [7192]
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The ID thing would hold more water
Mar 2, 2021, 12:51 PM
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if they would support automatic registration and a more centralized/standardized federal voting rules.
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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110%er [6401]
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Re: Democrats: LET BLACK PEOPLE VOTE!
Mar 2, 2021, 11:40 AM
[ in reply to Democrats: LET BLACK PEOPLE VOTE! ] |
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Know any of-age, non-felon blacks who currently can't vote? If so, give them the ACLU's toll free number.
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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110%er [6401]
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Re: Democrats: LET BLACK PEOPLE VOTE!
Mar 2, 2021, 2:49 PM
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If people don't have a valid I.D., that's their own fault. No one is stopping them from getting off their rear and getting one.
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All-Conference [400]
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Re: Democrats: LET BLACK PEOPLE VOTE!
Mar 2, 2021, 3:26 PM
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Step 1: Click on the link Tobias provided.
Step 2: Read the information in the link provided (see below)
Underlying documents required to obtain ID cost money, a significant expense for lower-income Americans. The combined cost of document fees, travel expenses and waiting time are estimated to range from $75 to $175.
The travel required is often a major burden on people with disabilities, the elderly, or those in rural areas without access to a car or public transportation. In Texas, some people in rural areas must travel approximately 170 miles to reach the nearest ID office.
Step 3: Post an informed response.
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110%er [6401]
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Re: Democrats: LET BLACK PEOPLE VOTE!
Mar 2, 2021, 3:34 PM
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Step 1: At work and don't have time to read the entire article
Step 2: Thanks for providing the main points in it
Step 3: How in the Wide World of Sports do you justify adding 'time' as an expense?
How do the elderly or disabled get to the grocery store or doctor's office now?
How was I able to obtain an I.D. while making five bucks an hour bagging groceries after school?
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All-Conference [400]
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Re: Democrats: LET BLACK PEOPLE VOTE!
Mar 2, 2021, 3:43 PM
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You've posted on Tigernet 8 times today, so I can't buy into the idea that you don't have the time to read a 2 page article.
I don't know how you got an ID, I'm assuming you went to the DMV like most other people. But 11%, or 21 million Americans don't have one. That's the issue we're discussing here.
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110%er [6401]
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Re: Democrats: LET BLACK PEOPLE VOTE!
Mar 2, 2021, 4:29 PM
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Okay. After three phone calls, four emails and QC'ing two legal documents... I read the article. And like much of what the ACLU puts out, I call BS on it. 25% of African Americans don't have I.D.? Identified cases of fraud are 'honest mistakes'? Hokey please. And the initial premise that voter I.D. laws are trying to roll back decades of voting rights and disenfranchise minorities is in itself is BS.
But, I did read the article, so I've got that going for me. Which is nice.
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Legend [18007]
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Hall of Famer [20520]
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Re: Pretty much their argument, as they are arguing in court...
Mar 2, 2021, 6:31 PM
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I mean, God help the GOP if they, you know, have to win elections by convincing people.
Maybe they could, you know, try this thing called, you know, not being total d!cks? You know...persuasion?
No?
I'm not getting the sense there's a lightbulb moment happening here, deweather.
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Legend [18007]
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and it's scary that they still may win w/that strategy***
Mar 2, 2021, 6:53 PM
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All-In [26968]
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I don't know what's in the bill, but I'm pretty sure I agree
Mar 2, 2021, 11:49 AM
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with those two clauses you posted. They don't do anything of course...they're just statements.
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110%er [6401]
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Re: I don't know what's in the bill, but I'm pretty sure I agree
Mar 2, 2021, 11:54 AM
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In a nutshell, they're trying to strip state's voting laws regarding I.D.'s, mail-in ballots, internet registration, ballot harvesting, etc. and make everything that ensures voter fraud legal.
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All-In [26968]
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I would disagree with doing that.
Mar 2, 2021, 11:59 AM
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If that's what the bill says.
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Hall of Famer [20520]
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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110%er [6401]
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Re: I don't know what's in the bill, but I'm pretty sure I agree
Mar 2, 2021, 2:52 PM
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No more than you can point to evidence that there isn't any significant fraud. But it doesn't take a genius to know ballot harvesting and mail-in voting invites fraud. Heck even the liberal French only allow mail in ballots if you can prove you cannot be physically present to vote.
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Hall of Famer [20520]
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Re: I don't know what's in the bill, but I'm pretty sure I agree
Mar 2, 2021, 3:27 PM
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Lordy. I don't have to disprove a negative.
You're the one alleging fraud. Find some. Find any. Truly. If there was any kind of indication of wrongdoing I'd be right there with you demanding an accounting...but there's nothing because there's no indication there's anything to find.
None. Zero.
Even effing Bill Barr, the attorney general and top cop in the United States, with every law enforcement resource of America available to him - which includes the FBI, US Attorney's Office, US Marshal's Service, ATF, Office of Legal Policy, Office of Information Policy, Office of Professional Responsibility, Criminal Division, National Security Division, INTERPOL Washington, and dozens of others, couldn't find any fraud. And he said so. Publicly. THIS IS WHAT HE SAID.
https://apnews.com/article/barr-no-widespread-election-fraud-b1f1488796c9a98c4b1a9061a6c7f49d
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Hall of Famer [20520]
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Re: H.R. 1 - Democrat's effort to seize permanent power
Mar 2, 2021, 11:52 AM
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Hardly.
H.R. 1 pretty much slaps down the Republican playbook as far as voter suppression tactics and gerrymandering, which is going to cost the GOP about 20-40 House seats, minimum, and force the GOP to do something it hasn't done in awhile...actually go forth and win elections by convincing more people to vote for you. Imagine that.
The GOP actually can win elections, by the way...from the center-right position, because at the end of the day, whenever it troubles itself to remember that fact, America is and always has been a center-right nation. Reagan won, as a center-right guy. Both Bushes won.
Of course, that lunacy that's going on at CPAC right now is miles to the right of center-right, and will deliver election after election to the Dems if it's continued, because what the GOP is about right now is not, you know, actual democracy.
Little things.
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110%er [6401]
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Re: H.R. 1 - Democrat's effort to seize permanent power
Mar 2, 2021, 11:56 AM
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Are you saying Clyburn hasn't been in congress since around the time radio was invented due to HIS district being gerrymandered?
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All-Conference [400]
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Re: H.R. 1 - Democrat's effort to seize permanent power
Mar 2, 2021, 12:18 PM
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Of course gerrymandering has had an impact on Clyburn's district. Who do you think has drawn the lines for SC districts since long before Clyburn took office (1993 by the way)?
Gerrymandering does not just draw favorable lines for one party or the other, it also concentrates the opposition into as few districts as possible.
We have technology that can easily determine whether district lines are fairly drawn, why not use it? It seems productive to have districts that more accurately represent the people and communities that exist within them instead of lines drawn by politicians to try to divide us as much as possible.
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: H.R. 1 - Democrat's effort to seize permanent power
Mar 2, 2021, 2:17 PM
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I would add that creating competitive districts would help move us all back towards the middle that so many people here claim to want. Both Dems and Reps would have to appeal to the middle in order to get elected - rather getting more and more extreme in order to keep from getting primaried.
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: H.R. 1 - Democrat's effort to seize permanent power
Mar 2, 2021, 2:15 PM
[ in reply to Re: H.R. 1 - Democrat's effort to seize permanent power ] |
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Democrats make up roughly 1/3rd of South Carolina's population, but they win 1/7th of SC representation in the House. That is Republican gerrymandering working.
They just couldn't figure out how to get ALL of the seats.
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: H.R. 1 - Democrat's effort to seize permanent power
Mar 2, 2021, 2:20 PM
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Coot,
You have a problem with making sure that all people - of any color - have an equitable chance to cast their votes in our democracy ???
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: H.R. 1 - Democrat's effort to seize permanent power
Mar 2, 2021, 2:27 PM
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: H.R. 1 - Democrat's effort to seize permanent power
Mar 2, 2021, 2:38 PM
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T3
Two things:
1. Did you read the OP ? It is where the issue of race started in this thread.
2. Did you read MY post ? I deliberately said, "all people - of any color"
Finally, approximately 11 million Americans do not have a gov't issued photo ID (links are above) Do those people just not count as Americans ??
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: H.R. 1 - Democrat's effort to seize permanent power
Mar 2, 2021, 2:50 PM
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: H.R. 1 - Democrat's effort to seize permanent power
Mar 2, 2021, 7:38 PM
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T3
Loves America - hates Americans
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Rock Defender [53]
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Correction
Mar 2, 2021, 9:07 PM
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: Correction
Mar 2, 2021, 10:02 PM
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Democracy means that everyone who wants to vote gets to vote.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Correction
Mar 2, 2021, 10:19 PM
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: Correction
Mar 3, 2021, 9:31 AM
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T3
Without some evidence of said fraud, it is hard to take you seriously.
BTW, what does being on the downside of a pandemic have to do with this ??
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Correction
Mar 3, 2021, 10:32 AM
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: Correction
Mar 3, 2021, 3:04 PM
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T3
first of all let's separate the voting issues from all of the other things that you are afraid that the Dems might do.
Secondly, apologies for bring up past false accusations of voter fraud. However, it seems hard to judge that the proposals in the For the People bill will lead to future fraud without any evidence of past fraud. Otherwise it is merely conjecture on your part.
Thanks for the clarification about the pandemic. I get what you are saying. However, many of these measures had been implemented in some states for years - with no hint of election fraud so . . .
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Hall of Famer [20520]
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Re: H.R. 1 - Democrat's effort to seize permanent power
Mar 2, 2021, 2:49 PM
[ in reply to Re: H.R. 1 - Democrat's effort to seize permanent power ] |
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LOL. You can always tell when T3 enters the conversation because the TD's start flying for no apparent reason whatsoever. It's kind of like that cloud around Pig Pen from Charlie Brown.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: H.R. 1 - Democrat's effort to seize permanent power
Mar 2, 2021, 2:52 PM
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Hall of Famer [20520]
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Re: H.R. 1 - Democrat's effort to seize permanent power
Mar 2, 2021, 3:45 PM
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Hall of Famer [21891]
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Serious question which I'm sure will be laden with
Mar 2, 2021, 3:32 PM
[ in reply to Re: H.R. 1 - Democrat's effort to seize permanent power ] |
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hyperbolic, whatabout responses....
How come if I feel like someone needs to show proof of identification in order to cast a vote, that in turn makes me racist? How is this even a thing?
By that logic, these things are racist:
- Flying on an airplane
- Buying tobacco, weed, or booze
- Taking an SAT, ACT, GMAT, or comparable test
- Going to the doctor (doctors here request ID)
- Picking up medication at the pharmacy
- Driving a car
- Going to a strip club
- Picking up something from layaway
I just don't see it. What I do see is hyperbole that tries to paint people's opinions into something that they're not. Some of you people seem to act like you're pretty intelligent, and I believe some of you certainly are, yet you sure push some moronic ######## in the name of making your fellow countrymen look like knuckle-dragging cross burners.
How about this. Instead of a drivers license, everyone puts their fingerprints or retina scans into a government database, and those get scanned at the time of voting or picking up absentee ballot^. What's wrong with that? Is it racist against people with no fingers or eyes? DNA cells then? How about that?
This whole notion just seems ridiculous to me that people get all bent out of shape over something pretty simple, and something that legitimizes the voting system in our country.
^I'm vehemently against this policy, but would do it in order to guarantee people voting for our elected officials are who they say they are and are eligible since asking for ID makes me a racist. The government has my fingerprints and Clear has my retina scan.
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: Serious question which I'm sure will be laden with
Mar 2, 2021, 7:45 PM
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dawg
first of all, I don't think of you as a racist.
However, if a policy has a greater negative effect on people of color, is that policy racist ??
Finally, there have been several instances where Republicans in positions of power have admitted that many of these voter restrictions are intended to make it harder for groups who tend to vote Dem to be able to do so.
I am stating clearly that I do not want anyone who is not eligible to vote to get to do so.
BUT, I also do not want to make it one iota harder for people to vote than is absolutely necessary to ensure that is the case.
ALL of these voting methods and processes that are being challenged or eliminated by Republicans have been tried in some states for years with no indication or evidence of significant voter fraud
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Hall of Famer [21891]
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This shouldn't be a partisan issue
Mar 3, 2021, 10:08 AM
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Putting in safeguards to ensure that eligible American citizens are casting votes for their elected officials is common sense.
Again, politics isn't my thing. However, when approaching this problem, if the priority is ensuring eligible people are voting, then we need to validate who the voter is, which will require some type of ID. If that policy creates a negative effect on people of color (which I personally feel is ########, but can't "prove it"), then address the root cause of why that happens.
In this instance, making it possible to obtain a legitimate form of identification would seem to quickly answer all of these concerns. If that is too large of a task for our government, then use biological markers for individuals so an ID is not required.
And keep in mind...some of this is on the individual. There are systems in place that allow, what, 95% of the population to have an ID? And you're telling me it's the system's fault? C'mon...that's #### poor. I find it #### near impossible to believe, that in the year 2021, in the United States of America, that people are flat out unable to get an ID because of a systemic limitation in this country.
Don't sacrifice the legitimacy of our elections, or diminish my or your votes for the sake of not being racist when there's a solution to the racist issue that will put everyone on a level playing field.
I don't understand how this is an issue, other than the hyperbolic "Republicans are racist". If that's your only defense, then I respectfully disagree with you.
I also hate to do this, but I'm hung on your last statement where you mention "no evidence of significant voter fraud". What is significant? Eligible American citizens should be the only people cast ballots in an election. If the system can't safeguard this with an extremely high confidence level, then we've failed. If one person who is ineligible casts a vote in my county that dictates how my future children's education system is funded, for example, then that is a ####### problem.
If Amazon can maintain a service level above 98.5% for a trillion dollar transportation network, then the US government can ensure a much higher level of confidence with respect to who is casting a vote. There's no chance in hell we're sniffing that type of service level with the policies in place in other states in the union, and that should be a huge concern for American citizens regardless of their political party affiliation.
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: This shouldn't be a partisan issue
Mar 3, 2021, 3:27 PM
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Dawg
I agree that this should not be a partisan issue. Republicans should want every American to vote (but they don't)
1. "Putting in THE NECESSARY safeguards to ensure that eligible American citizens are casting votes for their elected officials is common sense." FTFY Putting in unnecessary safeguards is just another name for obstacles.
2. Perhaps priority is the key phrase. Dems think the priority is encouraging ALL Americans to vote. The Reps have stated several times (in fact, again just yesterday) that their priority is to keep certain people from voting to help Reps get elected.
3. I do not think it is impossible to get an government issued, photo ID, but it seems to be more difficult for some people. Some 11 million Americans seem to be able to otherwise live their lives without one. Why make it harder for them to vote ?
4. Until someone shows me significant fraud in our elections, these measures to help more people vote do not, in any way, affect the legitimacy of our elections nor do they diminish my or your vote. I say significant fraud because there are always a few examples of illegitimate votes being cast in every election regardless of restrictions. I am not willing to make voting more difficult for millions to stop a infinitesimally small % (or just one) of illegitimate votes from being cast.
5. Your last point is a bit confusing. Are you saying that our recent vote counts were less than 98.5% accurate ? Because that is a claim that would require some compelling evidence.
The bottom line is this: I do not want anyone who is not eligible to cast a vote to do so. However, I do not want to keep any American from voting who wishes to. I think this bill will move us in that direction. Unless you have evidence to the contrary, I am not sure where our disagreement lies.
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: H.R. 1 - Democrat's effort to seize permanent power
Mar 2, 2021, 3:00 PM
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: H.R. 1 - Democrat's effort to seize permanent power
Mar 2, 2021, 7:47 PM
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T3
I certainly think that they will be challenged in court, But I think there is a compelling case to be made for federal standards for federal elections. It will be interesting to see the courts cases based on individual aspect of the law.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Wrong
Mar 2, 2021, 8:58 PM
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All-TigerNet [10867]
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guess what?
Mar 2, 2021, 4:12 PM
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it's too late. They already have permanent control.
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50
