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Playing Time & Transfers. "Oh My"!
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Playing Time & Transfers. "Oh My"!


Jan 4, 2021, 6:37 PM

Question for my fellow board members who are still around! Who are not just trolls looking to start up trouble and such.

A. Jordan and Nyles had every opportunity at making plays for Clemson. Nyles missed a bunch of time due to injury. Not sure about Jordan; but I know Nyles did. Players rarely say why they want to move on; so with that in mind.
Do you all think that these guys in particular - but any player in general kind of "don't like the platoon system"? In other words, they want to be "FULL TIME STARTERS"! Not Co-starters, not we take a equal share of snaps but rather they play all the time unless it's a blowout or if they get hurt or tired.
NP and JW played a bunch of football for Clemson so it's hard for me to see that being it. Although, I haven't ruled out "not enough playing time" as a reason.
Certain positions - I can see it being hard to get a rhythm going if you are constantly being taken out. At the same time - I like the system! It keeps everyone engaged. It keeps players ready to take over if they are needed w/o that deer in a headlight happening. It's good for moral. And a bunch of other good things! But, these two in particular make me wonder if "they just aren't happy splitting reps"! It's not about quantity though right fellow TNETTERS? It's about taking the limited opportunities and making so many plays that the coach "can't help but keep you on the field"! That's what Travis Etienne did as a freshman - he made so many plays on the few opportunities he had - it was all but impossible to keep him off the field.

B. Can any of you see teams(the competition) trying to use the platoon system Dabo likes(and I like it too; especially in today's world) against Clemson in recruiting?
I.E. may tell a kid - "you only get to play half the time there, where as here you are going to be the man"! Pros and Cons to both - because some kids may not want to have to shoulder the burden all the time. Others will avoid it.

Just wondering out loud and wondering what you all think about the subject?

Thanks!

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Re: Playing Time & Transfers. "Oh My"!


Jan 4, 2021, 6:41 PM

When you are a 5th year senior, you need all of the playing time you can get. It’s kinda your last chance to make a great impression. I don’t believe it hurts recruiting as much as you will see Players feel the need to go elsewhere towards the end of their college careers.

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Re: Playing Time & Transfers. "Oh My"!


Jan 4, 2021, 6:53 PM


When you are a 5th year senior, you need all of the playing time you can get. It’s kinda your last chance to make a great impression. I don’t believe it hurts recruiting as much as you will see Players feel the need to go elsewhere towards the end of their college careers.




Yeah! I guess you are right. That's my thing with these two though. We leaned on them heavily last year and this year! They had all the opportunity in the world!

Which prompted the Platooning question! They could have made a great impression by making plays "when they had the opportunity"!
I like both these guys, from everything I have read to seeing how they answer and handle themselves in interviews. But, could it be they just don't have "it"! That it factor.
Tyler Davis has that "IT" about him. Even as a true freshman; he was our bes DL. He is disruptive and he gets off blocks well. You can't say that about JW and NP - who are serviceable - but not "downhill DT's" who change the line of scrimmage and demand double teams or at least scare the OL some.

Like I said in another post. I wish them both the best of luck and I hope they get all the opportunity they seek. But, like Pagano years ago, it's about what you do with the opportunity when you get it. Caveat to that being I think Pagano moved for an entirely different set of circumstances. Did he go to Washington and start making a ton of plays? I think he did alright; but he played about as much as he did here. It's hard to have been elite all your life and then one day find out that maybe: "I have plateaued"!
Because they had every opportunity at Clemson to be the man!

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Re: Playing Time & Transfers. "Oh My"!


Jan 4, 2021, 6:56 PM [ in reply to Re: Playing Time & Transfers. "Oh My"! ]

Those are all good points that you have made. Obviously we don’t know the answer but the system that Dabo has put in place obviously works and any major change would be a mistake.

The team,family, culture works for Clemson. I’m sure happy with it and I bet most of you are too!

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Re: Playing Time & Transfers. "Oh My"!


Jan 4, 2021, 10:50 PM


Those are all good points that you have made. Obviously we don’t know the answer but the system that Dabo has put in place obviously works and any major change would be a mistake.

The team,family, culture works for Clemson. I’m sure happy with it and I bet most of you are too!




You would bet correctly ForestTiger! At least in my case!

Football is changing so much anyway! We thought the California ruling was going to have players running to Cali "for endorsement deals" in college.

The getting compensated for likeness and paying player thing - are just two examples of what is changing the whole landscape of college football.

I like our coaching staff's approach! Keep chugging along I say!

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Re: Playing Time & Transfers. "Oh My"!


Jan 4, 2021, 6:59 PM

I’m sure it will get used against us, but we can use it as a pitch, too.

For the top tier talent, it’s nice to know that Dabo and Co aren’t going to run you into the ground (RGIII or Lattimore). Currently a tossup for first running back off the board this year between Harris and ETN and ETN did it with 73% of the touches of Harris. That’s a selling point to me.

On the other hand, for some players that extra film is the difference between late round draft prospect and unsigned free agent, these are our typical transfer athletes coming out of Clemson.

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Re: Playing Time & Transfers. "Oh My"!


Jan 4, 2021, 11:04 PM

e2themfd said:

I’m sure it will get used against us, but we can use it as a pitch, too.

For the top tier talent, it’s nice to know that Dabo and Co aren’t going to run you into the ground (RGIII or Lattimore). Currently a tossup for first running back off the board this year between Harris and ETN and ETN did it with 73% of the touches of Harris. That’s a selling point to me.

On the other hand, for some players that extra film is the difference between late round draft prospect and unsigned free agent, these are our typical transfer athletes coming out of Clemson.




And, the last sentence is about the thought process I had. These guys come to the best schools because the best schools get the most exposure. Which as a Clemson fan; I love. But, in 2016 our 5 year composite class was outside the top 10(#12 or #14 it was one of the two).
That is to say - we did it w/o having 5 stars all over the roster! But, a bunch of 4 stars and maybe 4 or 5 5 stars. The rest were 3 stars who were "made the Clemson way"! Brought up and coached for a few seasons and pushed to be their best! Isiah Simmons and Grady Jarrett are in the NFL because of it. One was a 2 star the other a 3 star. Guys like that kind of come in knowing their NFL prospects are low; "so they have to work extra hard"! That's the type of grinders we need as well as a good mix of 4 and 5 star players.
When to give up that NFL dream is one of the questions I would have to ask. Every year you see guys who were difference makers in college "go undrafted"! Williams and Pinckney( as a random non-specific example hehe) were not what I call difference makers on the line. Tyler Davis is a difference maker. Bresee is a difference maker already. Murphy is a difference maker. Grady Jarrett was a difference maker. Those two guys are solid players - but that's it.
One last chance to be the big guy on campus I guess. But, if you can't do it here, why would a player at that position especially suddenly think it would be different elsewhere. Unless this is not about football. And, all of that goes for any player who has played a bunch of snaps, but who haven't really "stood out" during their playing time.

You have to at least "flash game changing potential" right? One would think; again especially when guys who have flashed difference making ability go undrafted yearly!
I would love to be a fly on the wall. I have to believe "they believe" the rotation wasn't right and that it hindered them! But, it didn't. You made a great example using Etienne - as a RB he probably has half the carries of a typical Wisconsin TB! And with any luck TE9 will have a long prosperous career! And, hopefully he gets in the league, tears it up and make comments about how Clemson saved carries on his body and looked after him in an interview. Be great and a Gold Pass to the top backs coming up!

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All good college teams platoon their DL, the key is to


Jan 4, 2021, 11:11 PM

establish yourself in the 2-deep so you are regularly on the field.

The two transfers could not be sure that they would be in the 2-deep at Clemson in 2021.

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Re: All good college teams platoon their DL, the key is to


Jan 5, 2021, 12:32 PM


establish yourself in the 2-deep so you are regularly on the field.

The two transfers could not be sure that they would be in the 2-deep at Clemson in 2021.




Exactly!

They are "good dudes" I'm sure. And, probably wonderful teammates. But, they aren't difference makers on the DL. With the amount of playing time both had - no reason for at least some "splash plays" that suggested they were dominant. You need to flash some dominance in college - especially going against inferior talent. But, even in those games, they didn't blow you away with how they got off blocks or even just occupying blocks!

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Good players all want to play. But, those who have a good


Jan 5, 2021, 12:41 PM

head on their shoulders also realize that sharing time with someone of equal ability can make both of you more successful. I don't care how great a physical shape you are in, no player can go 100% on every play and not tire out. The platoon system allows this, with each player knowing they can go all out while they are in the game, and they will get a "blow" (quick rest stop out of the game) when they get tired. Meanwhile the team is more successful due to this, a win-win.

If you are such a prima donna that you can't or won't accept this, you SHOULD move on down the road.

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Re: Playing Time & Transfers. "Oh My"!


Jan 5, 2021, 1:09 PM

W/ Capehart & Tre Williams, they would have fallen further on the depth chart. Out recruited the roster a bit at their position-

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Re: Playing Time & Transfers. "Oh My"!


Jan 5, 2021, 1:22 PM

I could be wrong, but I don't see us rotating players to the point of it being frustrating for our starters. We only seem to do it at an extreme level in our games against teams like SC State. I could see some players, especially those on offense wishing they could get a few more snaps in those games to gain extra stats, but not to the point of wanting to leave IMO.

From what I see though, it seems our key guys are usually on the field for as many snaps as possible in our tougher and closer games. Now, obviously we blow out a large amount of teams on our schedule which limits snaps for our starters in the 2nd half of those games, but most teams are going to take starters out during blowouts. We may do it a bit earlier than most, but it's not like other don't take their guys out in those situations.

I don't see it being a problem at all, and any recruit who wouldn't come here over that probably wasn't going to be good for our locker room in the first place. Let's take ETN as an example. He could certainly make a case for more carries, especially in some of our blowouts. Just imagine his stats with another 5 carries or so per game for his career, especially during his first 3 years here. We've never seen him upset though, and I think the fact he returned this season is proof of how happy he was to play for Clemson.

Would we really have wanted a player like him in the locker room though if he showed out and complained about wanting more touches even as we were winning the vast majority of our games? If there's a 5 star running back out there who would complain in ETN's shoes then we'd likely be better off without that guy IMO.

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Re: Playing Time & Transfers. "Oh My"!


Jan 5, 2021, 1:47 PM

Good post. And two good players that Bresee and Murphy have surpassed. I believe BV and coaches will have an honest meeting with these two and all our young men. And the young men will have a decision to make.

As for rotations, they seem to work at DL, RB and WR (preferably between series) and not as well at OL where Tigers will hopefully shake it up next season with a younger, quicker, more athletic line.

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