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Replies: 13
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Hall of Famer [24042]
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NC HS FB rules question for the board
Sep 6, 2019, 8:39 AM
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During grandson’s JV fb game last night, there was an offensive holding and a personal foul on the defense for a face mask on the same play. The refs stepped off the 10 yds for the off holding, then stepped off the 15yds for the def pf, and replayed the down. Why wouldn’t they be ‘offsetting penalties, then replay the down’? I seem to recall occasions where multiple penalties were enforced, but it seems those included a dead ball penalty, but this wasn’t the case.
I was not impressed with the quality or efficiency of the officiating crew, although I guess it was just a JV game..... but if you’re getting paid?
TIA for any explanation(s) if you care to share.
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All-In [30779]
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That’s definitely an error by the officials.
Sep 6, 2019, 8:55 AM
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The only time when multiple live ball penalties would be enforced is if there was a turnover on the play and then the timing of the penalties in regard to the turnover would dictate if the down would be replayed or if the penalties would be enforced.
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Hall of Famer [24042]
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Re: That’s definitely an error by the officials.
Sep 6, 2019, 9:19 AM
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No turnover...
???????
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All-TigerNet [12233]
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Just curious - was that the West Forsyth/North Mecklenburg
Sep 6, 2019, 8:57 AM
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game last night? If so I wondered the same thing...
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Hall of Famer [24042]
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Re: Just curious - was that the West Forsyth/North Mecklenburg
Sep 6, 2019, 9:37 AM
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No, I’m in Hendersonville - this was East Henderson (good guys) at West Henderson (Henderson County). As this happened there also, it must be a NCHSAA rule.
BTW: We played in a preseason jamboree at East Rutherford and I got to see Myers Park (Charlotte) play a very good Asheville school - which they beat 28-0. The MP qb is Drake Maye (Luke Maye’s brother and ‘21 Alabama commit), who looked impressive, and Myers Park is LOADED! Hope they aren’t on your schedule. Evidently, they pretty much ‘recruit’ players much like on the collegiate level.
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Starter [395]
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Re: Just curious - was that the West Forsyth/North Mecklenburg
Sep 6, 2019, 10:45 AM
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Those schools you mentioned brings back some memories. Good times playing in that Henderson County-centric conference back in the day...the Apple Country Conference (four Henderson schools, Polk, and Chase). So I always get to say I played ACC football.
Your Eagles come down the mountain to play the Mighty Fightin' Chase High Trojans next week. Should be a good test for us after opening up against a couple of 1A schools. It is Chase's first 2-0 start probably since Carlos Watkins' senior year.
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Walk-On [143]
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Re: NC HS FB rules question for the board
Sep 6, 2019, 9:25 AM
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The only time that this would occur is if you have a "live ball" foul followed by a "dead ball". Then both penalties would be marked off.
If you have on or more live ball fouls on each team, this is defined as a double foul, then by rule the penalties offset and the down would be replayed. There would be no walk off of yardage. The fact that one carries a 10 yard penalty and the other a 15 yard penalty has no significance.
Also, since this came up in a previous reply, in the event of a turnover the team "last in possession" must decline his opponents foul and their foul must have occurred after they gained possession of the ball in order to keep the ball. Otherwise the fouls will off set and the down must be replayed. So as in the previous scenario if more than one foul is marked off after a turnover a "dead ball" foul would have to have been committed by the team not last in possession.
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Hall of Famer [24042]
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Re: NC HS FB rules question for the board
Sep 6, 2019, 9:41 AM
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Copy, thanks! I’m thinking the officials probably erred on this one....
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CU Guru [1126]
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Re: NC HS FB rules question for the board
Sep 6, 2019, 9:47 AM
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If the face mask occurred after the whistle, wouldn't it be a dead ball foul and then handled after everything else was settled? The 10yd holding would then warrant the replay of the down.
Message was edited by: Tiger68®
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Hall of Famer [24042]
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Re: NC HS FB rules question for the board
Sep 6, 2019, 9:56 AM
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‘Pretty sure’ facemask occurred during the tackle.
But agreed, if a dead ball penalty, then holding is stepped off; facemask pf stepped off with ‘automatic’ first down (right?).
Yep, think refs got it wrong....
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Walk-On [143]
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Re: NC HS FB rules question for the board
Sep 6, 2019, 10:08 AM
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It would not be an automatic first down for the personal foul.
The only fouls in high school football that carries an automatic first down are Roughing the Passer, Roughing the Kicker/Holder, and Roughing the Snapper(this can occur only when the offense is in a "legal" kicking formation).
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110%er [6223]
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Re: NC HS FB rules question for the board
Sep 6, 2019, 1:02 PM
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+1 did not realize that. Anyone know if it's a state by state rule, or part of national rules ?
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Commissioner [989]
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Differs by state
Sep 6, 2019, 4:18 PM
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A lot of states will do similar things. I officiated in Texas for 4 years, and UIL went by College rules with "UIL Modifications" for some items such as location of hash marks, ball placement for kickoffs, etc. ie: Encroachment by the defense there was not an automatic penalty if they got back onside when at the same time in SC the play was blown dead if encroachment occurred prior to snap.
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Scout Team [198]
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Re: NC HS FB rules question for the board
Sep 6, 2019, 10:31 AM
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Ghawkins is correct entirely.
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