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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Is it possible to critique anything that Trump does
Mar 15, 2020, 2:30 PM
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without getting a backlash of attacks and denials.
Is it possible for any of his supporters to recognize ANY mistakes that he has made ?
I'm not just referencing the Corona Virus. In three years has this guy made ANY mistakes. I know he doesn't think so, but how about you guys ??
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Lot o points [180886]
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Germans***
Mar 15, 2020, 2:34 PM
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Oculus Spirit [80978]
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I did.
Mar 15, 2020, 2:34 PM
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You see how that turned out.
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Oculus Spirit [93608]
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Is it possible for anyone on the left to offer advice on...
Mar 15, 2020, 2:41 PM
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what should be done next instead of nitpicking whether or not Trump is lying about being sick? It it possible that someone like you could be focused on something other than russian collusion, a phone
call with ukraine or how this virus released by China is all trump's fault and that's why we shouldn't vote for him in nov?
Just askin a question. Is that OK?
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: Is it possible for anyone on the left to offer advice on...
Mar 15, 2020, 2:51 PM
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Sure, ask away. I am concerned about a number of things. One of the biggest is the divide between Americans and our seeming separation from reality. I would like to see if people from different parts of the political spectrum could possibly agree on what the facts are about any given topic.
I didn't mention any of the particulars that you mentioned, so perhaps you are a bit more obsessed with them than me. But let's try something else.
How about climate change ? Can we agree on what the facts are as concerns climate change ? And we don't even have to bring up Trump at all.
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Oculus Spirit [93608]
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Whether or not we agree about anything political will...
Mar 15, 2020, 3:34 PM
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not bear on the outcome of this infection.
I asked for advice and you tell me to go along to get along? How does that help? I'm not panicked. Are you? It seems to me that if we wanted to help we would be advising folks what and what not to do rather than pointing fingers and criticizing everything.
Does that register on your morality meter?
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: Whether or not we agree about anything political will...
Mar 15, 2020, 4:59 PM
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1988,
How does switching our conversation to a general discussion of politics and reality have any bearing on the virus. it seems to me that the basic questions about prevention have been adequately answered. The only other thing needed are regular updates on diagnosed cases and efforts to deal with them.
Why are you trying to avoid the question that I posed ? Can we agree upon any sense of facts or reality and then discuss from there ? This virus is just the latest in a line of topics where we seem to have more disinformation and confusion than facts and direction. Can we, as Americans, come to some agreement on the concepts of empirical evidence ? Then perhaps we can move forward together on the concept of rational thinking.
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All-TigerNet [12851]
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Legend [15492]
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Re: That’s a lot of words to say nothing
Mar 15, 2020, 4:38 PM
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"What are your proposals for Covid19 response?"
Test, test, test. Identify the infected and quarantine them as quickly as possible to stop the spread.
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: That’s a lot of words to say nothing
Mar 15, 2020, 5:02 PM
[ in reply to That’s a lot of words to say nothing ] |
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TP20,
Unless we can come to some agreement on the concepts of empirical evidence and rational thinking, I don't think any discussion of the Corona Virus (or anything else for that matter) is going to be very fruitful.
And if people of differing ideologies cannot or will not agree to those concepts, I don't see hoe democracy is supposed to work.
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Standout [347]
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Nope, his supporters are snowflakes so they will jump at anything.***
Mar 15, 2020, 3:04 PM
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: Nope, his supporters are snowflakes so they will jump at anything.***
Mar 15, 2020, 3:05 PM
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I don't think you are helping . . .
although, perhaps you are not really interested in a dialog.
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Standout [347]
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Just telling ya how it is. They will defend him to no end, and
Mar 15, 2020, 3:09 PM
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can not recognize or acknowledge when he makes a mistake. They get very personally offended when you point one out, so they feel attacked and respond in kind.
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: Just telling ya how it is. They will defend him to no end, and
Mar 15, 2020, 3:14 PM
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That is a more constructive comment than just calling them snowflakes. At least we might be able to talk about that.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Is it possible to critique anything that Trump does
Mar 15, 2020, 3:23 PM
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: Is it possible to critique anything that Trump does
Mar 15, 2020, 3:26 PM
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Can you give me your best example of a positive thing that he has done. I am not saying that there aren't any, just wonder which one tops your list ?
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Is it possible to critique anything that Trump does
Mar 15, 2020, 3:36 PM
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: Is it possible to critique anything that Trump does
Mar 15, 2020, 5:16 PM
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T#,
Now we can talk with each other. I already find much that we can agree upon.
1. Absolutely, the economy was doing fine before this virus, and unemployment was actually below what some economists thought possible. And nothing is more important to Americans than their ability to find work and take care of their families - so that is a big deal !
My only problem with that is that I think Mr. Trump got a bit too much credit for it. The data indicates that many of the trends for which he has been congratulated by some here had started well before he took office. When I teach Macroeconomics, I make a point to my students that all Presidents get too much credit and too much blame for the economy. There are just too many other hands on the wheel for them to do too much themselves. He has managed to keep our climb out of 2007 going. for that he deserves credit.
I would add that evidence seems to indicate that the trade wars and the tax cut had almost nothing to do with this continued economic success. In fact, the tariffs seemed to have had a negative effect based on the numbers.
I would really like to talk about your other points to see where we can agree on the evidence, but if I do them all here it gets muddy and rambling. Can we talk more about this one and then come back to the others ?
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Oculus Spirit [93608]
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Legend [15492]
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Re: Just one?
Mar 15, 2020, 4:38 PM
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Blocked travel from China excluding US citizens and ordered those coming from China to mandatory quarantine. Jan 31
Got your test yet? Turning down test kits from the W.H.O. in early February was a monumental error. If you can test you can quarantine and prevent spreading. We couldn't test, we now have no idea how many have it and where they're spreading it.
We're beginning to test now, but it's in every state in the country except West Virginia. At any point, we could have gotten test kits from the W.H.O but didn't. This administration downplayed it and they're still trying to downplay it.
At every stage, when anyone tried to point out the need for test kits they were shot down as 'politicizing' the virus.
Even today I saw a post from, no doubt, a dedicated Fox viewer saying that the "dems and libs" have shut everything down! Clearly not caring that the shut down is virtually worldwide. A merciful God hopefully will allow all of this to be an over-reaction. I pray every day that we're over-reacting. Because if we're not, thousands will die.
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Rock Defender [53]
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IDK about NC but SC is a complete cluster...
Mar 15, 2020, 5:00 PM
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: Just one?
Mar 15, 2020, 5:20 PM
[ in reply to Just one? ] |
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Yep, we don't know yet how many lives he saved with that one.
I think some people immediately reacted negatively to that due to Mr. Trump's previously xenophobic stances on other issues. That MAY have been at the center of his decision, but it turns out he was right on that one (and detractors were wrong) - though perhaps for the wrong reasons.
More people will live because of it - good on him.
Want to talk about another one - your choice.
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All-TigerNet [13359]
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Let me tell you a little story
Mar 15, 2020, 3:37 PM
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Called “The Boy Who Cried Wolf”....
If you critique everything (literally everything), no one takes you seriously.
HTH.
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: Let me tell you a little story
Mar 15, 2020, 5:29 PM
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This brings up an interesting point - and one that does any efforts at a reasonable discussion a disservice. I am sure it seems to Trump supporters that every single thing he does is criticized - and it may be - but not by the same people. And all of the media trying to generate viewers by banging the sensationalist drum for every single complaint by whomever is willing to make it - from either side of the political spectrum. BTW, some people seem to do whatever - make themselves look completely foolish - to get on TV. This only adds to the cacophony of negativity.
What I am trying to say is that I have not complained about everything, but you feel like I am being unreasonable because you lump me in with all of those people who, collectively, have. Then we can't have any type of rational discussion.
Let's both try to be better than that. Let's talk about ONE thing to see just how much common ground there is between us. And where we disagree, lets look at just what it is that we disagree about. Then maybe we can find a way forward together.
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All-TigerNet [13359]
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Re: Let me tell you a little story
Mar 16, 2020, 11:46 AM
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I have no idea what you’ve criticized or not... and frankly don’t care. Don’t come at me like all you wanted was rational conversation to find common ground. I think you should be reminded of how YOU started this thing:
“Is it possible for any of his supporters to recognize ANY mistakes that he has made ?
I'm not just referencing the Corona Virus. In three years has this guy made ANY mistakes. I know he doesn't think so, but how about you guys ??“
That is dripping with contempt and sarcasm. Why don’t you stop “lumping” all Trump supporters together and try again to start a rational conversation if that is your goal.
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