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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Heisman Winner [119530]
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No, it has no bearing on the case...
Feb 13, 2021, 10:18 AM
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This is just last minute desperation by MSM and DEMS....
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All-In [40865]
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He possibly could have saved multiple windows
Feb 13, 2021, 10:23 AM
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from being broken and 100's of dollars in damage, maybe even thousands. Not to mention the unarmed white girl that was shot dead by the police during a mostly peaceful protest, at least far more peaceful than we are used to from blm/antifa anarchist.
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Heisman Winner [111193]
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Re: No, it has no bearing on the case...
Feb 13, 2021, 10:27 AM
[ in reply to No, it has no bearing on the case... ] |
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there is no desperation on the part of the Dems, your party would not be lying about voter fraud and defending this criminal if the GOP was not in real trouble right now demogrpraphically.. Every action by the Republicans over the last 12years has been an act of desperation, from a 4 year kangaroo court over Benghazi, to the rampant voter suppression, to challenging the outcome of an election, despite being certified by the states and litigated in court several times. You literally had 140 members of your house that voted to overturn 250 years of our Constitutional Republic.
the fact of the matter your party is not popular among voters, it is just gun rights and abortion keeping you afloat. Most people in this country disagree with pretty much every GOP policy.
And to quote Noam Chomski,
"The Republican Party is the most dangerous organization in human history". I happen to agree..
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Heisman Winner [119530]
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Face it balm, the Dems lost this one
Feb 13, 2021, 10:57 AM
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And ###### any chance for UNITY...it’s on them
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All-TigerNet [12976]
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Re: No, it has no bearing on the case...
Feb 13, 2021, 6:37 PM
[ in reply to Re: No, it has no bearing on the case... ] |
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Lol, put the bong down. So if most of the country agrees with democrats; how does systemic racism exist, why are people still driving cars and killing the planet, why don’t you pay off each other’s debts for your worthless degrees, pay to have each other’s babies aborted, provide healthcare for illegals? Why Balm? Why? Why do you need the 1000 conservatives left to pay for it????
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110%er [5638]
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Re: If this is accurate would it change your mind about
Feb 13, 2021, 10:57 AM
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You are blinded by your TDS.
So we have REPORTS of the conversation from people who were told about it?
"...according to lawmakers who were briefed on the call by McCarthy..."
What has McCarthy himself said? Go to the source, I will believe the person who had the conversation telling about the conversation rather than 3rd hand hearsay. I certainly would not believe anything written/said by CNN. Why would anyone?
Even if true, how is it related to INCITING the riot. This is after the riot started. Plus, you are assuming that what everyone knows NOW was known by Trump then. We have no idea what Trump knew about what was happening. Maybe he thought McCarthy was exaggerating or maybe McCarthy just said there are people pushing barriers down. Who knows?
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110%er [7168]
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What does McCarthy say? Let's find out!
Feb 13, 2021, 12:30 PM
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Call him, his aides, the secret service, etc. as witnesses.
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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110%er [5638]
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Re: If this is accurate would it change your mind about
Feb 13, 2021, 7:21 PM
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Fair question...dunno.
But you can't convict someone in a lawful procedure because McCarthy did not confrm or deny what he said.
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: If this is accurate would it change your mind about
Feb 13, 2021, 8:21 PM
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NC
I totally disagree.
If the prosecutor in a trial calls a witness who testifies to something that incriminates the defendant, it is up to the defense attorney to undermine that testimony with their witnesses - or allow the prosecutor's testimony to stand.
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Hall of Famer [22380]
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It's accurate. Here's the statement from Herrera Beutler:
Feb 13, 2021, 11:15 AM
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She's been telling everyone, including her constituents this story as the reason why, as a Republican, she voted to impeach. Since she is not a direct witness, they'll need to call Kevin McCarthy as well.
https://jhb.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=402083
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All-TigerNet [12537]
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Re: It's accurate. Here's the statement from Herrera Beutler:
Feb 13, 2021, 12:19 PM
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It matters to me greatly. When all the witnesses are called, hopefully we will get to the bottom of this. If Trump indeed was aware of everything that was going on and did nothing and was in fact supportive of the rioters, I hope there is something beyond a Senate conviction to come his way.
However, this has nothing to do with the charge of inciting the riot.
Apparently the Sergeant at Arms of the House declined to bring in extra protection because of "optics."Did he make that decision or did Speaker Pelosi make that decision? It's hard to believe that that decision was made by the Sergeant at Arms. There are some reports that Trump asked for 10K troops to provide security days before Jan 6th. If so, that doesn't make sense that Trump would then want to incite this riot. The Mayor of DC is not going to look good either
I do want to hear from Turbeville, etc., but this has nothing to do with the impeachment article that the House Dems brought.
The process is flawed.This has not been a coherent process.
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110%er [9638]
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Witnesses - that's funny. The Dems folded like beach chairs
Feb 13, 2021, 3:41 PM
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when they realized the Pubs could call witnesses as well.
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Rock Defender [53]
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No.
Feb 13, 2021, 12:27 PM
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: If this is accurate would it change your mind about
Feb 13, 2021, 3:29 PM
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I find the defensive reactions here - the unwillingness to even consider a fresh analysis of events in light of this new information - amazing.
One of the central questions up until this bombshell was dropped was what was Trump's intent ? For what purpopse did he invite all of these people to DC ? Why did he put on such a show for them ? Did he intend to stir these insurrectionists up and send them to the Capitol with violence in mind ? Was he willing to see the electoral certification process physically stopped in order to try to secure his 2nd term ?
Since he would not testify himself, we were left to try to put together the pieces. This brought his reactions to events on the ground into consideration (trying to discern intent). There were already reports from White House staff that the President watched the events unfold on live TV with something less than chagrin, to put it mildly.
Then, in the last few days, we have seen 3 different Republicans bring forth evidence that reinforced the perception that Trump was supportive of what was happening at the Capitol.
First, Senator Tuberville indicated that at 2:15, he informed Trump that the Capitol had been breached and that VP Pence was having to be escorted out of the Senate chamber. Rather than sending out a tweet telling the insurrectionists to stand down and leave the Capitol, Trump egged on their most violent tendencies by tweeting that VP Pence was too much of a coward to do what was Constitutionally called for to keep the election from being stolen from those self-same insurrectionists.
Secondly, Republican minority leader McCarthy called the President and informed him again, that the Capitol had been breached and that Congressmen's lives (including his own) were in danger. He begged Trump to call off the rioters (indicating Trump's ability to influence them so) Trump responded with lies and then indifference. He sided with the insurrectionists (actually, he sided with his own interests, which should surprise no one) suggesting that their anger and actions were justified. Finally, after 15 more minutes, he tweets, "Please support our Capitol Police and Law Enforcement. They are truly on the side of our Country. Stay peaceful!”
Please note, there is no condemnation of what the insurrectionists are doing and no call to allow the Constitutional processes involved to be protected and allowed to continue. According to some reports from White House staff, Trump had to be forced to add "Stay peaceful." Finally, 2 hours after the Capitol was breached, Trump is talked into releasing a CYA statement saying, You have to go home now, we have to have peace … We love you, you’re very special.”
And finally, Rep. Jaime Herrera Beutler, publicly brought up (again) the Trump - McCarthy phone call - having been briefed on the call by McCarthy himself. IF this report was inaccurate hearsay, why didn't McCarthy immediately denounce Rep. Beutler and deny her account of the call ? Why is he yet to do so ?
These Republican officials have put their careers at risk. What would be their motivation to do so unless they were convinced that these things were true ?
Included here is a complete timeline of events over the past year. I totally get that you don't want to pay attention to the whole thing, but at least look at the sequence of events on January 6th and ask yourself what Donald Trump was trying to accomplish that day. If it was not a physical challenge to certifying the election that he lost, what was he trying to do ? And does this sequence of events really jibe with any other explanation of his intent ?
https://www.justsecurity.org/74138/incitement-timeline-year-of-trumps-actions-leading-to-the-attack-on-the-capitol/
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110%er [5638]
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Re: If this is accurate would it change your mind about
Feb 13, 2021, 7:33 PM
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If there were any evidence such as a recorded phone call, conversation, or email where Trump can be heard saying he is okay with the riots after they started or that the hoped there would be violence,
I am all on board with impeachment and maybe more.
Absent that, you have an opinion, and that opinion, whether you like it or not or believe it or not, is formed based on your prejudices which dictate who you talk to, what you read, what you watch, etc.
An example of evidence like I need to see is, for example, texts sent by Peter Strzok to his mistress about preventing Trump from becoming POTUS.
Another example of evidence are the email records of HRC sending/receiving classified information on her DIY email server.
Today, too many people view hearsay as evidence.
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: If this is accurate would it change your mind about
Feb 13, 2021, 8:07 PM
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NC
I am wary of hearsay as well. I prefer hard evidence. And there is some evidence here. Senator Tuberville said that trump called him at 2;15 and was told about the breach of the capitol and the need to evacuate VP Pence from the chamber. Is that not evidence ?
Representative Beutler said that she was briefed by minority leader McCarthy himself. I understand that meets the technical definition of hearsay, but I am left to wonder why McCarthy has not denounced Rep. Beutler nor denied her account of the phone call. Is it because he is OK with her lying bout it or is it more likely that he doesn't want to get in the crosshairs of trump and his followers ? Is he keeping quiet to increase his chances of being re-elected ? This may be circumstantial evidence but it is evidence nonetheless.
No, we don't have a smoking gun. Trump did not get on national TV and directly tell his followers to storm the Capitol and disrupt democracy in action. But I will ask you again, if he did not seek some kind of disruption of the process, what did he do all of this for ? What WAS his goal for consistently spreading lies about the election ? for inviting all of those discontented people to DC ? for putting on a fiery show for them so close to the capitol ? for saying he would join them there and then backing out ? If insurrection was not his goal - what was ??
While we are pondering that, if insurrection was not his goal, why was he so slow to respond to it once it became apparent ? Why did he tweet about VP Pence while his safety was in danger ? Why not call out the national Guard immediately ? Why not get on twitter and TV and tell the insurrectionists to stop ?
If this was really a friendly rally to show support for Trump, why not react when it got so completely out of hand ???
Finally, I can acknowledge that confirmation bias is a human thing that I am subject to. Can YOU admit that the same is true of you ? Because I find that being conscious of that tendency helps me to combat it.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: If this is accurate would it change your mind about
Feb 13, 2021, 8:10 PM
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: If this is accurate would it change your mind about
Feb 13, 2021, 8:18 PM
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I think his failure to mitigate indicates his intention to incite. I know you want a smoking gun, but I find this relatively convincing.
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110%er [9638]
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At what point did Trump send his "I love you guys, but go
Feb 13, 2021, 3:39 PM
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home" tweet?
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All-In [41898]
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It was actually a speech...
Feb 13, 2021, 7:11 PM
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But it was well after the damage was done.
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All-In [41898]
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Tobias, c'mon man.
Feb 13, 2021, 7:09 PM
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These folks would stand by Trump if he personally ordered an air strike on the Capitol building that day.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Tobias, c'mon man.
Feb 13, 2021, 7:26 PM
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: Tobias, c'mon man.
Feb 13, 2021, 8:16 PM
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Look T3, if we follow your logic, then any lame-duck president has absolute carte blanche in the future to do ANYTHING that they wish between the first week in November and January 21st.
Yes the video was edited. It has to be edited somehow or it is going to be 12 hours long. Did the edit misrepresent the facts of the event ? Die they lie about what happened ?
If you are willing to consider that Trump might have done this horrendous thing - if you think that legal and civil liabilities might be called for - then how can you allow nitpicking and technicalities be the reason that you don't support conviction here ?
I get the sense that you would be very pissedoff if you read about a murderer getting off because of legal technicalities. How is this any different ??
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Tobias, c'mon man.
Feb 13, 2021, 8:27 PM
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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T3 Cmon man
Feb 13, 2021, 8:48 PM
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If Obama had done the things Trump did, you would be howling bloody murder !
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: T3 Cmon man
Feb 13, 2021, 9:20 PM
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: T3 Cmon man
Feb 13, 2021, 10:11 PM
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I have been prepared for an acquittal from the outset, but is HAS been discouraging to see how many Americans are willing to twist themselves into double knots to avoid the reality of Trump's responsibility for these events.
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Rock Defender [53]
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No, would not change my mind or the fact that
Feb 13, 2021, 7:43 PM
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1 cop was murdered.
140 cops were injured.
1 cop has brain trauma.
1 cop crushed cervical disc.
1 cop lost 3 fingers.
1 cop stabbed with metal spike.
1 cop lost an eye.
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