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YOUR BALANCE
Something is drastically wrong with your men's basketball
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Something is drastically wrong with your men's basketball


Mar 5, 2020, 12:05 PM

team when during the course of your season you defeat three top ten rated teams and lose to many more than that in bottom feeder teams! Gotta be the entire coaching staff cause the players have shown that they can play with anyone!

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A lot of people post "three top 10" teams. Wasn't it three top


Mar 5, 2020, 12:23 PM

six teams we beat?

Message was edited by: MyfavOrange®


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Re: A lot of people post "three top 10" teams. Wasn't it three top


Mar 5, 2020, 2:07 PM

I said that to someone the other day.

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Re: A lot of people post "three top 10" teams. Wasn't it three top


Mar 5, 2020, 2:07 PM [ in reply to A lot of people post "three top 10" teams. Wasn't it three top ]

I said that to someone the other day.

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Re: Something is drastically wrong with your men's basketball


Mar 5, 2020, 12:27 PM

They can play with anyone on given days. The coaches need to develop a "confidence" serum that can stop the players from clanking every single three point shot on some give days. Maybe they just shoot better when they have nothing to lose.

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You shut your dirty pie hole!


Mar 5, 2020, 12:34 PM

It ain't the great coach Brownell, nor the players' fault EITHER!
Get this. You know whose fault it is??
It's our facilities and our Clemson FANS fault!!!
That's right! Even AWAY games are affected by our $65million dollar remodel and our FANS not traveling to VT!

*MIC DROP*

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Re: Something is drastically wrong with men's basketball.


Mar 5, 2020, 12:41 PM

I fixed your thread title for you.

This is happening all over the entire country in men's basketball this season.

So if something is drastically wrong with the Clemson team, then something must also be drastically wrong with the entire sport because we are a perfect example of what the entire country looks like.

I don't follow the sport in a detailed manner, so I would welcome someone pointing out a team who hasn't done what Clemson has done this season in terms of playing over their head and then falling flat flat on their faces seemingly days later.

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Re: Something is drastically wrong with men's basketball.


Mar 5, 2020, 1:01 PM

I give you Kansas. Only losses are to #4 Baylor, #12 Duke, and #14 Nova...

Just kidding, I get your point. It has been a weird season all around. That said, considering how few teams have 3 wins that match our 3 best wins, our losses are even more perplexing.

If we were losing to some of these teams by 2 and at least being competitive, it would be much better. Losing by double digits to the likes of SC, Minnesota, VT, and Wake (and by 9 to Yale and GT) in the same year that we've beaten 3 top 6 (currently still all top 12) is pretty ridiculous.

It seems like a motivation issue to me. Reminds me of Tommy Bowden's teams playing down to the weaker opponents then playing up to the better opponents.

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Re: Something is drastically wrong with men's basketball.


Mar 5, 2020, 1:19 PM

I had no idea about Kansas.

Last I heard of them this season their coach and administration were trying to rationalize giving short suspensions to two of their players who started a brawl in the crowd during their game with KState.

I get what you are saying about the confusing nature of our team this year.

If you switch to my rationale on Clemson basketball it makes much more sense though.

Clemson basketball plays poorly enough in a few games early for everyone to count them out just so they can go on a hot streak and surprise the entire conference. Then just when everyone is counting them in, they drop a game or two to terrible teams to reset everyone's opinion. Rinse and repeat until the season's final loss.

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Re: Something is drastically wrong with men's basketball.


Mar 5, 2020, 2:03 PM [ in reply to Re: Something is drastically wrong with men's basketball. ]

Your assertion isn’t true though. Clemson has 5 Q3 losses per the RPI (easier to find detailed breakdown than NET rankings). Only 6 teams in the top 60 have more than 2 Q3 losses. None have 5 Q3 losses. We have a better record against the best 3 teams we played than against all of Q1 and Q2 combined. We’re currently ranked 98th in RPI. From 80th-120th only two other teams have 3 Q1 wins. So no, these are not typical results.

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In NET rankings last night counted as a Q2 loss.


Mar 5, 2020, 3:13 PM

VT was 87th going into last night, they're 82 now.

The home loss to VT is a Q3 loss as of today's rankings. Miami was a Q3 loss. Those are the only 2 Q3 losses we have this year.

If you look at our team sheet it's really easy to find the breakdown of quadrant wins/losses:

Q1: 3-7
Q2: 5-5
Q3: 3-2
Q4: 4-0

Using the following link, Clemson is on page 82 of the pdf:

https://extra.ncaa.org/solutions/rpi/Stats%20Library/NET%20Team%20Sheets%20-%20March%204,%202020.pdf

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"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


Re: In NET rankings last night counted as a Q2 loss.


Mar 5, 2020, 3:40 PM

There is an element claiming that winning big upsets and losing to lower echelon teams is the new normal in college basketball to dismiss complaints about Brownell’s inconsistency. Of the Top 25 NET teams only 4 have even a single Q3 loss. Of the 40 teams immediately above and below us only 9 have 3 or more Q1 wins. The top 10 in NET is 131-3 combined against Q3&4. College basketball isn’t as topsy turvy as some might suggest.

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I don't disagree, I was just providing you with the data


Mar 5, 2020, 3:57 PM

I did count 5 in the top 25 NET teams that had at least 1 Q3 loss, but the point still stands.

Anyone suggesting that the inconsistency shown by our team this year is normal is flat out wrong. Yes, upsets happen. We all know that. But the inconsistency we have experienced this year is pretty crazy.

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"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


Every team is 1 game above .500?***


Mar 5, 2020, 8:54 PM [ in reply to Re: Something is drastically wrong with men's basketball. ]



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So You’re giving the credit to players for beating those good teams


Mar 5, 2020, 4:13 PM

And blaming coaches for losing games. Seems a tad bit convenient doesn’t it? This way coaching will never get ahead. We’ll be changing coaches every 3 years with that logic

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I would settle for changing coaches every 10 years.


Mar 5, 2020, 4:33 PM

Starting at the end of this season.

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Re: So You’re giving the credit to players for beating those good teams


Mar 5, 2020, 4:40 PM [ in reply to So You’re giving the credit to players for beating those good teams ]

I agree with this. I am not saying Brownell is the best coach ever but winning the games against the good teams shows Brownell knows how to coach. If you know anything about basketball, you would know that. Too many casual basketball fans think our basketball program should be like the football program. It NEVER will be. Just like Duke’s football team will never be like their basketball team. Does Brownell make mistakes? Of course. He’s not infallible. But he’s probably a top 20-25 type coach, coaching a program that is maybe a top 50 type program. The team was crushed with injuries and he has gotten the most out of this team. The losses to mediocre teams are disappointing but we are just a decent team. Expecting to win 20 games under this season’s circumstances is silly. If we fired Brownell, there is about a 5-10% chance at best that we would end up with someone better. He has outperformed the historical average of the program by a fair amount. He took the team to a sweet 16 two years ago and has had us in the conversation For the tournament the last two years. Losers want to fire coaches every other year. If he doesn’t take next year’s team to the dance, I would be willing to open up a search but you better make sure there is someone pretty darn good to replace him or we’ll be an 8-12 win team rather than a 15-18 win type program that is in the mix and can make the tourney every 3-5 years. People that complain on this site probably wanted Wade or Smart. Dirty and underachieving in a much better program. Have realistic expectations, learn the game and enjoy beating some great teams and being competitive and in the mix for postseason almost every year.

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Re: So You’re giving the credit to players for beating those good teams


Mar 5, 2020, 8:15 PM

I like your sentiment but I will disagree about us settling that we will never have a top BB program. It can absolutely happen. Odds are against it, sure....but not impossible.

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Brownell is not even CLOSE to a Top 25 coach...


Mar 5, 2020, 9:01 PM [ in reply to Re: So You’re giving the credit to players for beating those good teams ]

Where do you guys get this stuff?

There isn't a power five team out there that would hire Brownell as a head coach if he was fired tomorrow.

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Re: Brownell is not even CLOSE to a Top 25 coach...


Mar 7, 2020, 8:17 AM

^^^^^This is so true^^^^^

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How many years does it take to make a basketball program...


Mar 5, 2020, 9:00 PM [ in reply to So You’re giving the credit to players for beating those good teams ]

better?

12? 14? 20?

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Re: How many years does it take to make a basketball program...


Mar 6, 2020, 11:06 PM

You guys are so short sighted and your expectations for Clemson basketball are completely unrealistic. Brownell is a career 60% winner at 3 different schools. He won the conference titles at the other two schools. He is a 3 time coach of the year in the those conferences. He is a high 50%s winner at Clemson, in the toughest basketball conf BY FAR in the country. He has made two NCAA tourneys including a sweet 16 in 10 years, and 3 NITs including one deep run. There were 2 other years where they were right on the cusp of ncaas. They were decimated by injuries this year and they were still on the bubble, beat 3 top 6 teams and beat Unc for the the first time in over half a century. He has had one, count em one, bad year at Clemson. He averages 16-19 wins. What other coach in Clemson history has done that?? Next year they are set up perfectly for another tourney which will make it 3 in 11 years. If you don’t recognize that, you pure and simple don’t understand basketball at all. Might as well be a mother at one of my son’s middle school games or one of the ignorant other entitled fans that think every program should automatically make the playoffs/final four every year. That’s a you problem. Not a Brownell problem. There are 50-75 schools minimum that would hire Brownell if we fired him. And give me one reasonable hire that would be better than him. You can’t do it. guaranteed you can’t. Waiting. Either they aren’t nearly as good or they are one of the 10-15 that are maybe better but won’t come to clemson and have to put up with the likes of you. Terrible fairweather unknowlegable “fans,” that will jump on the bandwagon when things work and jump off when they don’t meet your totally unrealistic expectations. It’s not that we can’t be a more consistent even more competitive program. I think we will be starting next year. But it’s still going to be 2-3 years of 15-17 wins and nits followed by a year or two of possible trips to the ncaas every 5-6 years. We are a tiny South Carolina football school. Get over it and stop whining. Brownell is excellent. He’ll probably leave due to the likes of crap fans like you.

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Re: How many years does it take to make a basketball program...


Mar 6, 2020, 11:06 PM [ in reply to How many years does it take to make a basketball program... ]

You guys are so short sighted and your expectations for Clemson basketball are completely unrealistic. Brownell is a career 60% winner at 3 different schools. He won the conference titles at the other two schools. He is a 3 time coach of the year in the those conferences. He is a high 50%s winner at Clemson, in the toughest basketball conf BY FAR in the country. He has made two NCAA tourneys including a sweet 16 in 10 years, and 3 NITs including one deep run. There were 2 other years where they were right on the cusp of ncaas. They were decimated by injuries this year and they were still on the bubble, beat 3 top 6 teams and beat Unc for the the first time in over half a century. He has had one, count em one, bad year at Clemson. He averages 16-19 wins. What other coach in Clemson history has done that?? Next year they are set up perfectly for another tourney which will make it 3 in 11 years. If you don’t recognize that, you pure and simple don’t understand basketball at all. Might as well be a mother at one of my son’s middle school games or one of the ignorant other entitled fans that think every program should automatically make the playoffs/final four every year. That’s a you problem. Not a Brownell problem. There are 50-75 schools minimum that would hire Brownell if we fired him. And give me one reasonable hire that would be better than him. You can’t do it. guaranteed you can’t. Waiting. Either they aren’t nearly as good or they are one of the 10-15 that are maybe better but won’t come to clemson and have to put up with the likes of you. Terrible fairweather unknowlegable “fans,” that will jump on the bandwagon when things work and jump off when they don’t meet your totally unrealistic expectations. It’s not that we can’t be a more consistent even more competitive program. I think we will be starting next year. But it’s still going to be 2-3 years of 15-17 wins and nits followed by a year or two of possible trips to the ncaas every 5-6 years. We are a tiny South Carolina football school. Get over it and stop whining. Brownell is excellent. He’ll probably leave due to the likes of crap fans like you.

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Re: How many years does it take to make a basketball program...


Mar 7, 2020, 7:51 AM

Hope he does leave. I’d really like to watch basketball again. Haven’t watched his #### show in years

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