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In Article 2, the states choose the presidential electors.
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In Article 2, the states choose the presidential electors.


Jan 4, 2021, 6:11 AM

The states have all done so. We may not like the electors they chose (I know I don't), but that's just tough cookies. *Congress has no say in how states choose their electors, or which electors are chosen*.

The two primary objections to the states' choices are NOT the business of Congress. The only beef Congress could have is whether the electoral votes got to Congress appropriately.

Here are the two primary objections:

1. States did not follow their election laws, and lots of illegitimate votes were cast as a result: *This is NOT the business of Congress* This would be a problem within those states. Who would decide whether this happened or not? It is the job of judges to do exactly this. Many judges were involved in adjudicating cases related to this, and because of the decisions of those judges, the states decided to certify their results and choose their electors accordingly. Don't like it? Tough stuff. In this country, judges decided disputes of law. They did. You can disagree with them, but that's just, like, your opinion, man. You're gonna have to suck it up.

2. Many fraudulent votes were cast, or votes were illegally altered: *Again, this is NOT the business of Congress*. This is a question of criminal activity. Who would decide whether this happened or not? Local, state, and federal law enforcement. At none of those levels has law enforcement uncovered significant criminal activity. Because of what law enforcement found, the states decided to certify their results and choose their electors accordingly. Don't like it? Tough stuff. In this country, law enforcement investigates crimes. They did. You can disagree with them, but that's just, like, your opinion, man. You're gonna have to suck it up.

Now, what can Congress do? If Congress does not like the way states chose their electors, they can pass federal law somehow standardizing or changing how the elections are conducted. Not sure that would be very popular, and might face some Constitutional scrutiny, but they can try. What they CANNOT do is tell a state, "No, you didn't choose your electors right." That sound you hear is the Constitutional buzzer.

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Agree. And it will work out that way.


Jan 4, 2021, 6:49 AM

As you said, Congress can pass a law, but all face Constitutional scrutiny. This or that congressman has said or proposed this or that thing forever. Most of those dont see light for the reason you mention. This one gets a lot of air time because of what it is, but it will work out the same way, dont you think?

IE, if Vegas put odds on Biden taking the oath, it would be less than 100% only due to some chance that he wont live that long. Or be able to recite it.

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I haven't heard any member of Congress


Jan 4, 2021, 7:56 AM

propose passing legislation to modify election laws going forward. What some members of Congress are doing, right now, is objecting to some states choosing presidential electors they don't like.

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Re: In Article 2, the states choose the presidential electors.


Jan 4, 2021, 8:19 AM

How is it that over 100 congressmen/women and a dozen senators are going to reject the electors of particular states on Wed unless the certification is postponed and election/voter fraud is conducted?

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Because it's a free country, and they are allowed


Jan 4, 2021, 8:26 AM

to do and say very misguided and unConstitutional things.

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What they are doing, or threatening to do is not only...


Jan 4, 2021, 8:43 AM

allowed by the constitution, it's demanded. 'Because they can,' is more the reason people climb Mt Everest or why my ex ate an entire cake one weekend.

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They are allowed to do it, in that they are not breaking


Jan 4, 2021, 8:44 AM

a law by making their objection. It's just that they are objecting for very unconstitutional reasons, and for that reason, in my opinion, they are very wrong.

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The scenario in which I think it would be appropriate


Jan 4, 2021, 8:47 AM [ in reply to What they are doing, or threatening to do is not only... ]

to object during the counting of electoral votes would be if the ones that the Vice President read off for a state were not actually the ones that the state certified. It seems like that would be more possible in the days of sending stuff by the Pony Express, of course.

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Re: Because it's a free country, and they are allowed


Jan 4, 2021, 8:56 AM [ in reply to Because it's a free country, and they are allowed ]

Actually they're not allowed to do unconstitutional things.

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I worded badly...see my most recent reply to 88, above this.


Jan 4, 2021, 8:58 AM

Words it better.

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How is it that those same congressmen just voted


Jan 4, 2021, 8:29 AM [ in reply to Re: In Article 2, the states choose the presidential electors. ]

371-2 to seat the house members elected on the same ballots that elected Biden?

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I wonder about that too.


Jan 4, 2021, 8:40 AM

I also know that hundreds of thousand, if not millions of ballots bore a vote for Biden with no downvote.

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You don’t know that...


Jan 4, 2021, 8:51 AM

You heard a rumor about that which you have chosen to adopt as your reality.

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There were 5 million ballots like that in 2016,


Jan 4, 2021, 8:56 AM [ in reply to I wonder about that too. ]

a little over 4 million in 2012, 7.5 million in 2008, and 8 million in 2004.

What’s your point?

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Help me understand this...


Jan 4, 2021, 9:45 AM [ in reply to Re: In Article 2, the states choose the presidential electors. ]

How comes those 100+ GOP Congressmen aren't objecting or raising issues with their own elections, which were done with the same voting system and the same ballots?

Why are their elections legitimate but Biden's isn't?

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[Catahoula] used to be almost solely a PnR rascal, but now has adopted shidpoasting with a passion. -bengaline

You are the meme master. - RPMcMurphy®

Trump is not a phony. - RememberTheDanny


Same reason they aren't objecting to electoral votes


Jan 4, 2021, 10:01 AM

from other states whose execution of election laws was modified by governors/judges, if those states were won by President Trump. It's not about fraud...it's about not liking the result.

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I know...


Jan 4, 2021, 10:09 AM

I just want to see 88 spin this in circles while trying not to admit that it's just about not liking the result.

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[Catahoula] used to be almost solely a PnR rascal, but now has adopted shidpoasting with a passion. -bengaline

You are the meme master. - RPMcMurphy®

Trump is not a phony. - RememberTheDanny


Here's a challenge: find the word "certify"


Jan 4, 2021, 8:57 AM

In Article 2 of the Constitution, 3 U.S. Code § 15 for Congress counting Electoral Votes, and 3 U.S. Code § 6 for elector credentials. I'm copying them below.

Next, each time you see the word "certify," note who it is that is the subject of the clause (who is certifying?). You'll find that it's not Congress. Every time you hear a Congressman say they won't vote to "certify" the electoral votes, make note of their ignorance of the law.

Article 2 (the paragraphs about the election)

Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector.

The Electors shall meet in their respective States, and vote by Ballot for two Persons, of whom one at least shall not be an Inhabitant of the same State with themselves. And they shall make a List of all the Persons voted for, and of the Number of Votes for each; which List they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the Seat of the Government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate. The President of the Senate shall, in the Presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the Certificates, and the Votes shall then be counted. The Person having the greatest Number of Votes shall be the President, if such Number be a Majority of the whole Number of Electors appointed; and if there be more than one who have such Majority, and have an equal Number of Votes, then the House of Representatives shall immediately chuse by Ballot one of them for President; and if no Person have a Majority, then from the five highest on the List the said House shall in like Manner chuse the President. But in chusing the President, the Votes shall be taken by States, the Representation from each State having one Vote; A quorum for this Purpose shall consist of a Member or Members from two thirds of the States, and a Majority of all the States shall be necessary to a Choice. In every Case, after the Choice of the President, the Person having the greatest Number of Votes of the Electors shall be the Vice President. But if there should remain two or more who have equal Votes, the Senate shall chuse from them by Ballot the Vice President.

The Congress may determine the Time of chusing the Electors, and the Day on which they shall give their Votes; which Day shall be the same throughout the United States.


3 U.S. Code § 15
Congress shall be in session on the sixth day of January succeeding every meeting of the electors. The Senate and House of Representatives shall meet in the Hall of the House of Representatives at the hour of 1 o’clock in the afternoon on that day, and the President of the Senate shall be their presiding officer. Two tellers shall be previously appointed on the part of the Senate and two on the part of the House of Representatives, to whom shall be handed, as they are opened by the President of the Senate, all the certificates and papers purporting to be certificates of the electoral votes, which certificates and papers shall be opened, presented, and acted upon in the alphabetical order of the States, beginning with the letter A; and said tellers, having then read the same in the presence and hearing of the two Houses, shall make a list of the votes as they shall appear from the said certificates; and the votes having been ascertained and counted according to the rules in this subchapter provided, the result of the same shall be delivered to the President of the Senate, who shall thereupon announce the state of the vote, which announcement shall be deemed a sufficient declaration of the persons, if any, elected President and Vice President of the United States, and, together with a list of the votes, be entered on the Journals of the two Houses. Upon such reading of any such certificate or paper, the President of the Senate shall call for objections, if any. Every objection shall be made in writing, and shall state clearly and concisely, and without argument, the ground thereof, and shall be signed by at least one Senator and one Member of the House of Representatives before the same shall be received. When all objections so made to any vote or paper from a State shall have been received and read, the Senate shall thereupon withdraw, and such objections shall be submitted to the Senate for its decision; and the Speaker of the House of Representatives shall, in like manner, submit such objections to the House of Representatives for its decision; and no electoral vote or votes from any State which shall have been regularly given by electors whose appointment has been lawfully certified to according to section 6 of this title from which but one return has been received shall be rejected, but the two Houses concurrently may reject the vote or votes when they agree that such vote or votes have not been so regularly given by electors whose appointment has been so certified. If more than one return or paper purporting to be a return from a State shall have been received by the President of the Senate, those votes, and those only, shall be counted which shall have been regularly given by the electors who are shown by the determination mentioned in section 5 of this title to have been appointed, if the determination in said section provided for shall have been made, or by such successors or substitutes, in case of a vacancy in the board of electors so ascertained, as have been appointed to fill such vacancy in the mode provided by the laws of the State; but in case there shall arise the question which of two or more of such State authorities determining what electors have been appointed, as mentioned in section 5 of this title, is the lawful tribunal of such State, the votes regularly given of those electors, and those only, of such State shall be counted whose title as electors the two Houses, acting separately, shall concurrently decide is supported by the decision of such State so authorized by its law; and in such case of more than one return or paper purporting to be a return from a State, if there shall have been no such determination of the question in the State aforesaid, then those votes, and those only, shall be counted which the two Houses shall concurrently decide were cast by lawful electors appointed in accordance with the laws of the State, unless the two Houses, acting separately, shall concurrently decide such votes not to be the lawful votes of the legally appointed electors of such State. But if the two Houses shall disagree in respect of the counting of such votes, then, and in that case, the votes of the electors whose appointment shall have been certified by the executive of the State, under the seal thereof, shall be counted. When the two Houses have voted, they shall immediately again meet, and the presiding officer shall then announce the decision of the questions submitted. No votes or papers from any other State shall be acted upon until the objections previously made to the votes or papers from any State shall have been finally disposed of.


3 U.S. Code § 6
It shall be the duty of the executive of each State, as soon as practicable after the conclusion of the appointment of the electors in such State by the final ascertainment, under and in pursuance of the laws of such State providing for such ascertainment, to communicate by registered mail under the seal of the State to the Archivist of the United States a certificate of such ascertainment of the electors appointed, setting forth the names of such electors and the canvass or other ascertainment under the laws of such State of the number of votes given or cast for each person for whose appointment any and all votes have been given or cast; and it shall also thereupon be the duty of the executive of each State to deliver to the electors of such State, on or before the day on which they are required by section 7 of this title to meet, six duplicate-originals of the same certificate under the seal of the State; and if there shall have been any final determination in a State in the manner provided for by law of a controversy or contest concerning the appointment of all or any of the electors of such State, it shall be the duty of the executive of such State, as soon as practicable after such determination, to communicate under the seal of the State to the Archivist of the United States a certificate of such determination in form and manner as the same shall have been made; and the certificate or certificates so received by the Archivist of the United States shall be preserved by him for one year and shall be a part of the public records of his office and shall be open to public inspection; and the Archivist of the United States at the first meeting of Congress thereafter shall transmit to the two Houses of Congress copies in full of each and every such certificate so received at the National Archives and Records Administration.

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Congress does not vote to certify...


Jan 4, 2021, 9:08 AM

If and when the houses break to vote about the electors, they will be voting on whether they have *already been certified*, by the state executive. Read it.

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Re: Congress does not vote to certify...


Jan 4, 2021, 11:50 AM

Prod,

I think you have been right on for this whole thread.

This vote WILL, however, help us identify some members of Congress who are willing to throw democracy and the rule of law under the bus to please Trumpers and get re-elected.

I think that is something worth knowing and I hope Americans will remember it on upcoming election days.

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