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All-TigerNet [10871]
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I understand some are disappointed in the LJ project
Feb 9, 2015, 11:18 PM
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Many feel that there is going to be little to no change for the fans. While that may be somewhat true, I think the whole idea is to give the players THEMSELVES more rather than the fans. The stadium upgrades focus on the player's experience behind the scenes and what recruits will experience rather than the bells and whistles only fans will get to experience.
I'm a firm believer in the 'if you bring the players, the fans will come' mentality. I really don't believe it is the other way around but some may beg to differ...almost like the chicken or the egg argument. I believe if Clemson would have won against Miami, the ND game would have been a packed house. If we bring in the talent => winning => butts in the seats so who can really be disappointed with that outcome?
Some may feel it is a lot for such renovations, but do we really know what all the construction entails? I mean, maybe there some real structural concerns that require quite a bit of labor and technical know-how that none of us are simply privy to. I know all too often 'small things' (I use that term loosely here) wind up costing a fortune....car engine may run funny, winds up being a blown head gasket. Girlfriend no longer texts you midday....having an affair with coworker and subsequent divorce. You get my point 
At least you can say we're trying! If it works as far as bringing in some big time talent, I believe it'll be money well spent...
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All-TigerNet [14488]
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Good post
Feb 9, 2015, 11:22 PM
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At the end of the day, a stadium "upgrade" is still an upgrade nonetheless. The new LJ will be better for fans and players alike. Win win!
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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how much is the LJ reno estimated to be?***
Feb 9, 2015, 11:26 PM
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CU Guru [1725]
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$60 million
Feb 9, 2015, 11:34 PM
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Back in 2003 we could a built a brand new one for $80 million, but now we are going to spend $100 million in renovations in the last 13 years. The exterior is still going to be ugly as hell too. Not a good first impression for recruits.
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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I think if we throw an Oculus on it, everyone would be happy***
Feb 9, 2015, 11:37 PM
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CU Guru [1725]
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I would be happy if the admin would decide if they are
Feb 9, 2015, 11:41 PM
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in all the way on basketball or not. If you going to do it, do it right and try to be the best. For what we will have spent the last 13 years on all the renovations we could have built a new arena. It seems like nobody can make a good decision on Littlejohn. I suspect in 5-10 years we will have to do another stop gap renovation to Littlejohn just to keep it feasible.
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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I should have been in charge of this....I would have had you
Feb 9, 2015, 11:45 PM
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guys set up with a retractable roof (would that be a first?), ribbon lights, and Hooters catering for everyone. Nothing a few more mill wouldn't cover...I guess some weren't meant to handle the reins though...
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CU Guru [1725]
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I'm just disapointed
Feb 9, 2015, 11:50 PM
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with what it was originally going to be to what it's going to turn out to be. There is no exterior redesign, no club seats, no ribbons, and no open concourses. Completely different than the original plan and we're only saving 7 or 8 million. I thought we were going to have a top flight rebuilt coliseum, now it seems like its just a run of the mill renovation. If we aren't going to do the original stuff, why don't we save the money and just rebuild the locker rooms and practice facilities.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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thanks, i knew how much, but was hoping our friend
Feb 9, 2015, 11:49 PM
[ in reply to $60 million ] |
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Tall_Tiger_Two would write it down and look at the number.
$60,000,000.00...
and all the WOW & "POP" i saw in the original presentation appears gone.
If as T_T_T said there are unseen structural issues, then I can make a few calls to Philly or NJ/NY and get some guys who know some guys that can make the problem go away.
This i could do.
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CU Guru [1725]
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There has always been structural issues with LJ
Feb 9, 2015, 11:53 PM
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Which is why I'm surprised we didn't build a new one.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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not sure which structural issues you're referring to other
Feb 10, 2015, 12:01 AM
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than site lines and the big reason for the 2003 roof.
i was referring to hidden or unseen issues of integrity or at least that's what i took from TTT's post.
i agree with you that a "half to 2/3rds" mentality or approach would be disappointing. hopefully a lot of this is much ado about nothing.
i guess we'll see.
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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Re: not sure which structural issues you're referring to other
Feb 10, 2015, 12:06 AM
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"I mean, maybe there some real structural concerns that require quite a bit of labor and technical know-how that none of us are simply privy to."
I never said for sure there was...just saying who knows exactly were the expense is going. It could be going towards a lifetime supply of Jack Black hand soap for all I know. Until someone presents the details, it's kinda hard to know if we're getting monetarily robbed like some are suggesting.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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i know you never said for sure, neither did i.***
Feb 10, 2015, 12:10 AM
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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Good...I never want to be know for knowing anything for sure
Feb 10, 2015, 12:11 AM
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That's too much responsibility for one to handle....
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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we can always blame someone else...
Feb 10, 2015, 12:13 AM
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cause we're kewl like that.
alright guys, i'm out. have a great nite.
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Commissioner [942]
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CU Guru [1725]
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Re: not sure which structural issues you're referring to other
Feb 10, 2015, 12:09 AM
[ in reply to not sure which structural issues you're referring to other ] |
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Yes, I was referring to past problems with the roof and site lines. Take a look at this picture though.
We had everything stripped down bare, and we still managed to mess up the renovations. This is like spending $10k on a new engine and transmission on a 1990 Ford Explorer and thinking it's a great deal because you are saving a few thousand instead of buying a new car.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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i agree 100% if things are as you and others fear...
Feb 10, 2015, 12:12 AM
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i hope they aren't.
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CU Guru [1725]
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Re: i agree 100% if things are as you and others fear...
Feb 10, 2015, 12:16 AM
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I'm hoping the AD will put out more info or maybe give an interview soon so we can put this to rest. I would be in favor of pushing this back another year to get it right.
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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putin will mock us now
Feb 10, 2015, 12:02 AM
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and not just because of obama.
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CU Medallion [64579]
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You can't really compare Death Valley to Littlejohn....
Feb 10, 2015, 7:49 AM
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Prior to all of the additions to Death Valley, it was already one of the best stadiums in the Country. The addition of all the player ammenities and the WEZ just made it even better. That is certainly not the case with Littlejohn.
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All-TigerNet [14468]
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Re: I understand some are disappointed in the LJ project
Feb 10, 2015, 8:21 AM
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i will try this one more time. the renovations that will be done are mostly for the student athlete. not much more needs to be said about that. last time i checked in most arenas the court is a rectangular shape with seats surrounding that rectangle. they go from the floor to the ceiling in most arenas. what will be different for out fans in this arena will be larger seats with more leg room, hence the reduction in the total number of seats. social media availability will be much improved. concessions and bathrooms will be much improved. a new video board will be in place. just a few things that will be different and greatly improved for our so called "fans" whom if you read this board are the most important. heck with the student athlete. but hey, it will still be the same old square building on the outdide, no matter how much better it looks and that is just not acceptable to some. i am guessing the same people that complain about dabo wearing a sweatshirt at the games.
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CU Medallion [64579]
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You have to admit though.....
Feb 10, 2015, 8:24 AM
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the exterior of Littlejohn really could use some serious attention.
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Legend [19352]
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Re: You have to admit though.....
Feb 10, 2015, 8:27 AM
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deroberts refuses to admit that anything could be improved at Clemson. Everything is perfect sunshine and butterflies.
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All-TigerNet [14468]
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Re: You have to admit though.....
Feb 10, 2015, 8:31 AM
[ in reply to You have to admit though..... ] |
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well it will look different. the fascination with the beams is a little puzzling. i can see keeping them because they are part of the foundation but at least we could paint them. prez barker was adamant about keeping them the same on the last redo, but he is gone now.
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CU Medallion [64579]
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I've heard varying accounts....
Feb 10, 2015, 8:44 AM
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whether the beams are structural or simply aesthetic.
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All-TigerNet [14468]
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Re: I've heard varying accounts....
Feb 10, 2015, 8:59 AM
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oh they are structural because they sure as hell aint aesthetic.
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Legend [19352]
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Re: I understand some are disappointed in the LJ project
Feb 10, 2015, 8:23 AM
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"The stadium upgrades focus on the player's experience behind the scenes and what recruits will experience rather than the bells and whistles only fans will get to experience."
Then dont waste money on the actual arena part until you are able to afford to do it right.
Right now what we are doing to the actual arena itself is a gigantic waste of money and a half assing of it. Same way we half assed it in the early 2000s.
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Head Coach [751]
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Re: I understand some are disappointed in the LJ project
Feb 10, 2015, 8:33 AM
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As much as I hate to criticize and face the wrath of some here, you're exactly right Clemtiger117. If all you want to fix is the stuff behind the scenes then by all means do it but don't halfass LJ again.....2003 renovation was a flop and now this one appears to have the makings of the same outcome!
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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don't ever let the ######## get you down...***
Feb 10, 2015, 8:35 AM
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Legend [19352]
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CU Medallion [60225]
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they have spent millions on Death Valley in the last decade
Feb 10, 2015, 8:35 AM
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yet 99% of the stadium seats are exactly the same as they were 40 years ago. I sit in the end zone and my seats are the same as they were in the 70's. Same aluminum slat with no backrest. Even if you sit on the 50 yard line, nothing has changed. A new scoreboard is about the only improvement to my game viewing experience.
The large majority of that money was spent for the players' benefit, and the aesthetic appearance of the stadium.
Why do you expect Littlejohn be any different?
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Legend [19352]
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Re: they have spent millions on Death Valley in the last decade
Feb 10, 2015, 8:40 AM
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Ribbon boards, bathrooms, concourses, new sound system all were for your benefit.
Exterior improvements as well to make the place look nice were also for your benefit.
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CU Medallion [60225]
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yeah the old troughs were pulled out, forgot about that
Feb 10, 2015, 8:48 AM
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thanks for reinforcing my point of comparison......those same things will be done in Littejohn too.
Not sure what the naysayers are expecting.
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Legend [19352]
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Re: yeah the old troughs were pulled out, forgot about that
Feb 10, 2015, 8:50 AM
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Didnt reinforce anything buddy I simply showed that your line about only video board being done was bs.
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CU Medallion [60225]
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but you did....
Feb 10, 2015, 9:09 AM
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most improvements are for players and overall aesthetics, as I stated. This will be the case with Littlejohn also.
and my quote was "A new scoreboard is about the only improvement to my game viewing experience.". Concourses and bathrooms have nothing to do with my game viewing experience. Ribbon boards and speakers are more distracting from the game than an improvement to me.
If they ever improve the seating in Death Valley, it will be very expensive and cost many seats, as it would have to be brought up to modern codes, with handrails, handicap seating overhaul, etc. Don't look for that to happen any time soon.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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well, good thing you weren't the deciding vote, because i
Feb 10, 2015, 9:16 AM
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love the new video & sound systems, plus the westzone has become the aesthetic icing, whether it's what you see driving up or the back drop from the hill.
it's an impressive first impression; littlejohn not so much.
tiger baseball has it backwards. beautiful tiger field with 1950's cinderblock on the inside.
they're finally getting the baseball amenities right, they've dressed up DV, but littlejohn?
still ugly & the aesthetic left on the editing floor?
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