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Legend [17605]
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Coach Barnes vs. Coach Brownell
Feb 10, 2013, 4:28 PM
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This post will not be popular, but I believe it's accurate. Coach Rick Barnes left for Texas and his legacy at Clemson has always been debatable.
That said, Barnes did not take $hit. Not from the refs, not from Coach K, not from Dean Smith and certainly not from his players. Coach Brownell is purported to be an "x's and o's" guru and that could be true. And most x's and o's savants make great asst coaches.
Coach Brownell could benefit from watching some Barnes' video on how not to be a wall flower. Barnes' Tiger teams were not talented. They were tough. They were physical. They were over achievers. They played all out as they were all in. The team feared Coach Barnes and as a result they were disciplined.
This 2013 team has some lemons. It's 100% up to Brownell to find the lemonade recipe.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Could not agree more
Feb 10, 2013, 4:29 PM
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Brownell did get his first "tech" EVER a few weeks ago.
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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So why is Barnes on the hot seat at Texas
Feb 10, 2013, 4:40 PM
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they have sucked the last few years since Durant left
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Rock Defender [53]
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You are mistaken
Feb 10, 2013, 4:48 PM
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This will be the FIRST year Texas does not make the NCAAs, while Barnes' has been the head coach. He is not on the hot seat.
Brownell would not be on the hot seat if he had gone to the NCAAs the past 3 years.
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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All-In [32653]
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One of those links is like linking to here to a post by
Feb 10, 2013, 9:11 PM
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Razzmagoof or amandadale.
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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Also show me a Buckner and Boogie on this team***
Feb 10, 2013, 4:42 PM
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Rock Defender [53]
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Brownell is charge of recruiting, tell him to find them***
Feb 10, 2013, 4:49 PM
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CU Medallion [58414]
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^ This is, and always has been Brownell's challenge; not
Feb 10, 2013, 5:00 PM
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poor discipline, leadership, game-prep, or x's and o's. Pretty much true for every coach we've ever had.
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Orange Blooded [2746]
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You get it.***
Feb 10, 2013, 9:39 PM
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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Legend [19352]
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Rock Defender [53]
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Which is it guards or big men?***
Feb 10, 2013, 8:54 PM
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Legend [19352]
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Re: Which is it guards or big men?***
Feb 10, 2013, 9:09 PM
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Hey look another example of this stupid ####### not knowing a #### thing about our team.
Coleman and Blossgame are guards. You should learn ### you are talking about before criticizing.
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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CU Guru [1878]
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Re: Coach Barnes vs. Coach Brownell
Feb 10, 2013, 4:48 PM
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I agree with most of what you said. Barnes was probably a better basketball coach than Brownell at this point in his career.
However, Barnes had more talent. Greg Buckner played 10 years in the NBA. Terrel Mcintyre played pro overseas for 10 years after Clemson.
I'm willing to give Brownell 1 more year like this one before I'm willing to look at other coaches. He has 2 very talented players sitting on the bench out for the season with injuries. I think once those guys get back, this team will be a tournament team.
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Legend [16907]
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Re: Coach Barnes vs. Coach Brownell
Feb 10, 2013, 5:01 PM
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Barnes was also the huge beneficiary of perception versus reality. His first season one newspaper article debated whether Clemson would simply be the worst team in the ACC that year or the worst team in the history of the ACC. Obviously, in hindsight, he lucked out with a reasonably talented group of ballers.
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Legend [17605]
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CU Medallion [58414]
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I think it's easy to fall into that trap. First of all, I
Feb 10, 2013, 4:56 PM
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don't see a lack of discipline under Brownell; I do see a lot of young, inexperienced players who make a lot of mistakes. Jennings is a senior, but he is what he is. No amount of threatening, screaming, or suspending would change it; and he is still here and still playing because he is one of the best players on the team. besides, I get the impression that Brownell is pretty strict and doesn't hesitate to reprimand or discipline his players. He commented before the season that patience was not one of his virtues, and that this year was going to be challenge for him in that regard. He knows what he's dealing with. It's kind of funny too because earlier this year, when Sapp left, there were threads about Brownell running so many players off.
There is a definite difference in the personalities of Barnes and Brownell, but there are many successful coaches who possess both types. I loved Rick Barnes when he was here too, but I don't think you have to stomp around and put on a big show in order to be a good coach, gain respect, or discipline players effectively.
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Legend [17605]
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Smiling Tiger ... Respectfully Disagree with 1 point
Feb 10, 2013, 5:56 PM
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I enjoy your posts ... in this case, I think the Rick Barnes' "stomping around" bravado and showtime personality benefitted Clemson because it put us on the ESPN Sports Center map when he raised #### and took on Coack K and Dean Smith. The potential recruits took notice. Even the Duke players that loved to take charges hesitated when Wideman and Harold Jamison drove to the basket. They could lose all their teeth. Clemson Basketball had a brand. A tough guy brand.
Anyway, I think Barnes having the brash tough guy image put Clemson Hoops on the map in the mid 90's. And brought Clemson Hoops some hard-to-get media attention. You are right Brownell has to do it his way. But even great coaches gave to adapt to prosper. Coach Brownell needs to establish and sell his brand - right now I'm not sure what it is. That's a problem.
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CU Medallion [58414]
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I don't disagree with that, except I think it's obvious what
Feb 10, 2013, 6:52 PM
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Brownell's brand is: Disciplined half-court offense, tough half-court defense, and looking for opportunities in transition. He simply hasn't had the players yet to make it totally effective.
I agree that Barnes did an excellent job establishing his brand and getting Clemson basketball on the map, and I hated to see him go. I just know that's not the only way to skin the cat, and not necessarily one I expect Brownell or any other Clemson coach to emulate.
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Legend [17605]
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Thumbs-up ... Agreed.***
Feb 10, 2013, 7:13 PM
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Orange Blooded [2760]
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Re: Coach Barnes vs. Coach Brownell
Feb 10, 2013, 4:58 PM
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Here's a major difference. We have ONE inside player and two seniors. Milt is Milt and no need to elaborate on his short-comings. Booker gets double teamed and sealed off because we can't get our freshmen and sophomores to make enough plays. BB knew this was going to be a rough year when he spoke at the Prowl & Growl last year. He is trying to get these guys skills to a level that will make us much better in future years.
Barnes had more talent and a better blend of positions/experience. When you don't have elite talent, you have to develop these guys, which takes time.
If you think getting elite talent at Clemson is something Barnes or others could do in today's environment, you're nuts. He has two likely starting quality players out on RS this year that are probably the lacking pieces to be .500 in the league, which is good considering our youth.
NCSU has MUCH more talent AND experience than we do - yet we should have won the game. Think coaching and player development has anything to do with it???
I freaking HATE losing but take a breath and realize what we have to work with this year. Better days are ahead.
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Athletic Dir [861]
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Thanks for the intelligent insight. Good to know that
Feb 10, 2013, 5:04 PM
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someone has it on this board. I hate it when the idiots come out of the cracks.
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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Also Barnes was 18-14 and 7-9 in ACC his last year
Feb 10, 2013, 5:07 PM
[ in reply to Re: Coach Barnes vs. Coach Brownell ] |
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not exactly lighting it up. He had one really good year at 23-10, the others were, 15-13, 18-11 and 18-14
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Legend [17605]
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What you are leaving out ... TIm Duncan, Stackhouse,
Feb 10, 2013, 6:18 PM
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Joe Smith, Rasheed Wallace, Randolph Childress, Matt Hapring, Stephone Marbury, Antawn Jamison and other studs roamed the ACC courts. UNC was best team in country in that span. Three final fours and Barnes & Buckner beat them in ACC tourney one year.
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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Barnes team only overachieved in his first 2 seasons...
Feb 10, 2013, 6:52 PM
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Barnes brought in some pretty good players.
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Team Captain [494]
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Re: Barnes team only overachieved in his first 2 seasons...
Feb 10, 2013, 9:07 PM
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Barnes won with the likes of a Raefield Ragland and a Bryan Harder. Forgive me on the poor spelling of their names.
Wish he was still coaching at Clemson.
His last year, he missed out on some really excellent recruits. One sharp shooter form Kentucky and then a top point guard who stayed home at Rutgers. I think he realized he just wasn't going to be able to get talent to ever come to Clemson. He did as good as he was going to do at Clemson.
I still feel that if we had gotten past Minnesota that we would had won that next matchup and made it to the Final Four.
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Orange Blooded [2481]
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Ruff, Ruff.....GOOD JOB!***
Feb 10, 2013, 9:31 PM
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110%er [6981]
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...and no one had to make excuses for Barnes
Feb 10, 2013, 10:33 PM
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and resort to insulting other Tnets for any realistic comment about a coach.
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Rock Defender [53]
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^^^^^Well said!***
Feb 11, 2013, 9:23 AM
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