Replies: 60
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All-In [34054]
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Legend [15174]
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blows my mind that time is being wasted on this...
Feb 9, 2021, 2:26 PM
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actually, no it doesn't. Shows how broken congress has become.
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All-In [34054]
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Re: blows my mind that time is being wasted on this...
Feb 9, 2021, 2:29 PM
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That criticism was just addressed by one of the prosecutors.
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Legend [15174]
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Every single democrat will vote in favor of impeachment.
Feb 9, 2021, 2:33 PM
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Most Republicans will vote against impeachment.
The 2 party system is so ridiculous. Nobody can think for themselves. It is a waste of time.
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Hall of Famer [22351]
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He's already been impeached.
Feb 9, 2021, 2:39 PM
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This is the trial.
The two party system has worked well. It's just that one of the two parties is currently broken. It's a question of how long it stays that way.
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Legend [15174]
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Should've said every single democrat will vote for removal
Feb 9, 2021, 2:57 PM
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and most Repubs will not.
You already know the outcome.
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All-In [40798]
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It's going to be tough to remove him. What if he refuses to
Feb 9, 2021, 3:20 PM
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go?
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All-In [41716]
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All-In [40656]
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I am willing to bet a LARGE sum of money
Feb 9, 2021, 2:41 PM
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That you didn't hold this opinion when Hillary's email deposition was going on.
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All-In [41716]
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Hold what opinion?
Feb 9, 2021, 2:45 PM
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She wasn't president so she couldn't be impeached.
Let me know if you need my Venmo.
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All-In [40656]
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Sir, are you familiar with the constitution?
Feb 9, 2021, 2:49 PM
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Secretary (former, in this case) is a Civil Officer appointed by the president, therefore eligible for impeachment.
Article II, Section 4:
The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.
Not a good look on this one, Catahoula®
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All-In [41716]
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Was there not an investigation?
Feb 9, 2021, 2:54 PM
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Oh, and yeah, I did support that on here. I was actually surprised that nothing more came of it.
So what's your argument? That Hillary should have been impeached but not Trump?
You really are going to compare her email thing to what Trump did?
Sorry, bruh. You're the one about to walk away the hypocrite here.
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All-In [40656]
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I never mentioned Trump
Feb 9, 2021, 2:55 PM
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My comment wasn't ever about Trump, just Hilldawg
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All-In [41716]
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So what are we even debating here?
Feb 9, 2021, 2:58 PM
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Do I think Hillary should have been investigated? I do.
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All-In [40656]
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Just let me enjoy dunking on you
Feb 9, 2021, 2:58 PM
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That felt REALLY nice.
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All-In [41716]
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All-In [40656]
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Tmale indicator is broken, of course
Feb 9, 2021, 3:11 PM
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But it only sends one tag per post, so next time, save some steps and just do it once.
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All-In [41716]
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I'll tag you early and often, like a mail-in vote.***
Feb 9, 2021, 3:15 PM
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Hall of Famer [22351]
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: Sir, are you familiar with the constitution?
Feb 9, 2021, 3:50 PM
[ in reply to Sir, are you familiar with the constitution? ] |
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rulez,
This may be true, but the need is less than obvious. The President can just ask any Cabinet member to resign.
Has a cabinet official (other than Belkamp) ever been impeached ??
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All-In [40656]
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Prior to the last president, there had never been a
Feb 9, 2021, 4:24 PM
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2x impeached president. Just because it hasn't happened doesn't mean it shouldn't happen.
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: Prior to the last president, there had never been a
Feb 9, 2021, 7:26 PM
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Fair enough.
I am just pointing out that if Cabinet members get out of line there is an easier, cleaner process by which to handle that.
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All-In [31784]
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I get that one might not believe Trump is guilty of...
Feb 9, 2021, 2:33 PM
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inciting insurrection. Frankly, I'm not sure it's Constitutional to have a trial for a President that has already left office. I believe it more appropriate to use the 14th Amendment process.
However, from an intellectual perspective, IF...IF you think there is a chance that a sitting President actually did incite insurrection, don't you think it reasonable and important that Congress would take that up as an issue?
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110%er [6388]
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Re: I get that one might not believe Trump is guilty of...
Feb 9, 2021, 2:39 PM
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Trump didn't use any words in his speech that thousands of politicians haven't used before. If he can be found guilty of inciting insurrection, Obama should be found guilty of inciting the murder of police.
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All-In [31784]
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Well, that is complete horse crap...
Feb 9, 2021, 2:42 PM
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he had been sowing distrust and discontent in the election system since before the election.
Jan 6 came on the heels of 2 straight months of him spreading utter lies and disinformation about the election results. He was calling Congress to overturn a legal election. He was threatening state election officials.
To say that what Trump was saying was the same as thousands of politicians have said in the past is total BS.
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All-In [41716]
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Hall of Famer [22351]
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Heisman Winner [137201]
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Here's what you're missing, and it's important:
Feb 9, 2021, 2:45 PM
[ in reply to Re: I get that one might not believe Trump is guilty of... ] |
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the article of impeachment doesn't focus only on his speech that day. If that were the case, you're probably right. Candace Owens, misguided as she always is, wrote a piece about how it's been proven that the Capitol riot was pre-planned, and as such, everybody owes Trump an apology. It certainly was planned, and that planning happened for a reason. Quite simply, a full year of setting the table for fictional election fraud, and then 2 months of claiming it actually happened with no evidence whatsoever. Millions of people believe the election was fraudulent as a result. Some small percentage of those people are either unstable enough or dumb enough (or both) to actually try to overthrow the government.
None of this happens without all of the bullshit Trump tweeted for a YEAR about the election. THAT is your incitement.
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110%er [6388]
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Re: Here's what you're missing, and it's important:
Feb 9, 2021, 3:02 PM
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I disagree with that. With all the mail in voting, drop boxes, no matching signatures required, states changing voting rules at the last minute, ballot counts suspiciously and inexplicably stopped in swing states, etc., people didn't need to be convinced by Trump that voter fraud was in the works. They were already convinced of it themselves.
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All-In [31784]
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You realize half the stuff you just listed is false...
Feb 9, 2021, 3:06 PM
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and some of the other things (like states changing voting rules at the last minute - assume you mean PA) didn't have an impact on the result....right?
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All-In [40798]
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changing the voting rules changed the vote
Feb 9, 2021, 3:18 PM
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if it didn't there would be no need to change the rules
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All-In [31784]
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If he's referring to PA SC allowing late ballots...
Feb 10, 2021, 7:26 AM
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to be counted...no it didn't change the outcome (winner).
The votes were kept separated and the total number of "late" votes were less than the margin of victory for Biden.
And FWIW, I thought the decision by the PA Supreme Court was a wrong one.
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110%er [6388]
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Re: You realize half the stuff you just listed is false...
Feb 9, 2021, 3:22 PM
[ in reply to You realize half the stuff you just listed is false... ] |
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I don't know which half you're saying is false, but I do know that while it can't be proven there was enough vote fraud the flip the race to Biden, it can't be proven that there wasn't either.
"But there were recounts!" you might say.
Maybe. But if the recounts were just counting the same batches of already counted votes, including fraudulent ones, what good does that do?
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Hall of Famer [22351]
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This is a testament to the power of Trump to convince
Feb 9, 2021, 3:30 PM
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his minions of things that are not true and the willingness of his minions to believe them. Basically proving the point.
It's also a testament to your lack of logic.
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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All-In [41716]
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Re: You realize half the stuff you just listed is false...
Feb 9, 2021, 3:58 PM
[ in reply to Re: You realize half the stuff you just listed is false... ] |
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...but I do know that while it can't be proven there was enough vote fraud the flip the race to Biden, it can't be proven that there wasn't either.
Yeah, that's how the burden of proof works. It's up to you and all the others claiming fraud to prove that there was fraud that changed the election.
So far, no one has done it.
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All-In [31784]
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CU Medallion [57910]
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I think that Trump bears some responsibility for
Feb 9, 2021, 3:33 PM
[ in reply to I get that one might not believe Trump is guilty of... ] |
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irresponsibly perpetuating the nonsense about the election being stolen, which certainly inspired certain people to storm the capitol (his speech on that day did not direct them to do so). I do think he should be held accountable in some way, but I don't think impeachment is that way. I think it's nothing more than petty, childish, partisan revenge that has zero chance of succeeding, and will do more harm than good to the country.
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: I think that Trump bears some responsibility for
Feb 9, 2021, 3:54 PM
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smiling,
Then what do you suggest ?
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CU Medallion [57910]
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I don't know - a public flogging, 30 days in the hole, some
Feb 9, 2021, 4:22 PM
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sort of public rebuke. Punish him, scold him, then move on. Impeachment is wrong on every level in this case.
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Hall of Famer [22351]
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No. It's not.***
Feb 9, 2021, 4:25 PM
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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All-In [47707]
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one nuance I don't see talked about...
Feb 9, 2021, 2:35 PM
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Democrats don't have to persuade 17 senators to their side. They merely need to persuade some GOP members to stay home.
Article I says "And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present."
Democrats with their GOP brethren so inclined apparently have 55 votes to convict. So, they really need like 18 members to stay home or not show up when the vote is held so that 55 is 2/3.
I bet Mitch can find 18 to stay away as a middle ground.....
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Heisman Winner [137201]
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There's a credible risk that being a no-show for the vote
Feb 9, 2021, 2:42 PM
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gets painted with the same brush as a Yes vote by the OANs and Newsmax's of the world (and the Gaetzes and Jordans and Ghomerts and the rest of the Trump lunatics in Congress), with the net result of not getting reelected being the same. But maybe it's worth a roll of the dice. The Business Republicans are pretty desperate to make Trumpism disappear.
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All-In [31784]
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Better yet, pursue the options in the 14th amendment...
Feb 9, 2021, 2:46 PM
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and that only takes a simple majority of both houses. It then is a little more drawn out in the courts, but there is plenty of time for that prior to the 2024 election.
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All-In [47707]
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I like that as well.***
Feb 9, 2021, 2:46 PM
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All-In [41716]
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That's the key
Feb 9, 2021, 2:57 PM
[ in reply to Better yet, pursue the options in the 14th amendment... ] |
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The biggest thing that needs to happen here is barring Trump from ever running for office again. I think that's where we are ultimately heading.
And this is the one Trumpies really need as their own punishment.
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Legend [15174]
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I could get on board with Trump not being allowed to run
Feb 9, 2021, 3:02 PM
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for office.
But having all this mess to formally remove a president from office who has already been voted out of office 4 months ago makes no sense.
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All-In [41716]
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I disagree
Feb 9, 2021, 3:04 PM
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For one, Trump risks losing several benefits if convicted, which means there are still punitive measures that can be levied upon him.
Of course, we already mentioned not being allowed to run.
But ultimately, a message has to be sent to all future presidents going forward. Try something like this again and you will be punished in some way, shape, or form. Voting against it will be a dark stain on our democracy and history.
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Legend [15174]
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I think you're crazy to think that some dumb little fake
Feb 9, 2021, 3:10 PM
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trial would actually dissuade a maniac (yes Trump is probably a mild maniac) from being an idiot.
The American people voted him out of office. If the American people voted him back in office, then absolutely... Go ahead and kick him out of office.
And maybe I'm totally wrong, but you know what the outcome is going to be. There may be a few who cross over, but our 2 party system is just gonna vote like it always does.
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All-In [41716]
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Maybe...
Feb 9, 2021, 3:14 PM
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Maybe I am crazy to think this:
...some dumb little fake trial would actually dissuade a maniac (yes Trump is probably a mild maniac) from being an idiot.
But I also know a sociopath will only commit crimes to the extent where he thinks he won't get caught. Perhaps this will be enough to persuade a future one to not take this specific route.
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Lot o points [154452]
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This is getting pretty far out.
Feb 9, 2021, 3:16 PM
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Do we have an outbreak of sociopaths trying and successfully getting elected to the highest office in the land?
It seems like a really difficult, low percentage plan for world domination.
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All-In [41716]
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Re: This is getting pretty far out.
Feb 9, 2021, 3:22 PM
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I mean, most likely. Sociopaths crave power and control in several arenas. Politics makes sense for that. And they don't need world domination. Just domination of their domain (cue Seinfeld).
I highly recommend reading the book The Sociopath Next Door to really see how they work, and you'll see Trump leaping off the pages (and it was written well before he ever ran for office).
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Lot o points [154452]
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Hopefully you've heard me say for a while now that
Feb 9, 2021, 3:29 PM
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I think a disturbingly high percentage of congresspeople are sociopaths, because it's the only logical explanation to what they put themselves through for seats of power.
Just saying, pre-Trump I don't think it's been a major problem---at worst we just had the more garden variety liars and narcissists with a few redeeming traits thrown in.
Trump just seems like a one off to me.
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All-In [41716]
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There's different degrees of them
Feb 9, 2021, 3:40 PM
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And I agree with you on Congress. Why don't they go all Trump on us? Their vision is smaller. They can get their abuse/control on a satisfying smaller scale.
Trump was too grand of one with a ton of narcissism to boot. He was enabled too much by the wrong people. He felt he could get away with just about anything. He wanted for more than your garden variety Congressional sociopath.
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All-In [47707]
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All-In [40330]
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Being a no show is the easy way out
Feb 10, 2021, 8:18 AM
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As an official elected to represent your state, you should vote, period.
I’d rather my senators vote in a way that I disagreed with than to not vote at all.
All of the lemmings, party over country, etc will be up to the voters to make their own opinions
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Hall of Famer [20482]
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Re: There's a credible risk that being a no-show for the vote
Feb 9, 2021, 4:33 PM
[ in reply to There's a credible risk that being a no-show for the vote ] |
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A no-show would be very Mitch McConnell. I can totally see that happening. If the vote's about to be called and about a dozen of Mitch's coalition are inexplicably not there, I would not be terribly surprised.
I would literally pay money to watch the look on Trump's face.
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All-In [49020]
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actually that would solve Senator's other problem, voting
Feb 9, 2021, 4:58 PM
[ in reply to one nuance I don't see talked about... ] |
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not guilty. Then they look like lemmings willing to jump off the cliff to follow Trump. They just don't want to vote on this at all.
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Heisman Winner [110282]
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Repubican Senators are a bunch of
Feb 9, 2021, 8:48 PM
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Pus>sies that will vote for their party over their country. The battle for the stupidest political party ever has finally been won.
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110%er [8631]
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Re: Impeachment trial here
Feb 10, 2021, 9:04 AM
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not an impeachment trial if SCOTUS is not involved
fake news
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