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Replies: 31
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All-In [43992]
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I know it's fashionable to complain about free throws
Jan 22, 2020, 4:03 PM
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and say stuff like "we've never been good at free throws," but that simply isn't true - at least not under Brownell.
Through last night's game, we are shooting .655 from the free throw line this season. This includes the last three games, where we have shot uncharacteristically poorly from the line. As we all know, this needs to improve. So I agree with you that it hasn't been good thus far in the 2019-2020 season (note: we were shooting .690 going into our game against Duke this year).
However, this season's results are an anomaly when compared to the rest of Brownell's tenure:
2018-2019: .732
2017-2018: .755
2016-2017: .731
2015-2016: .723
2014-2015: .682
2013-2014: .744
2012-2013: .654
2011-2012: .670
2010-2011: .701
Aside from the 2012-2013 season, where we shot .654 from the line (nearly identical to our free throw percentage thus far this year), we've shot way better from the line throughout the past 10 years under Brad.
For reference, here was our free throw shooting under Purnell:
2009-2010: .661
2008-2009: .688
2007-2008: .623
2006-2007: .578
2005-2006: .617
2004-2005: .601
2003-2004: .631
Here was our free throw shooting under Larry Shyatt:
2002-2003: .657
2001-2002: .626
2000-2001: .702
1999-2000: .671
1998-1999: .620
Here was our free throw shooting under Rick Barnes:
1997-1998: .614
1996-1997: .680
1995-1996: .659
1994-1995: .696
And under Cliff Ellis:
1993-1994: .648
1992-1993: .666
1991-1992: .597
1990-1991: .626
1989-1990: .609
As you can see, over the past 30 years, we have had some horrendous free throw shooting teams. But to say that it's always been bad isn't correct, because Brad's teams have bucked that trend big time. The six best free throw shooting teams over the past 30 years have come in Brad's tenure.
I have every confidence that this year's team will improve as the season progresses, and that we will soon return to the good free throw shooting we have become accustomed to under Brad.
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110%er [5468]
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Re: I know it's fashionable to complain about free throws
Jan 22, 2020, 4:11 PM
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Now that's sommmme research there. Thanks. Are you related to Tim Bourett?
Message was edited by: lthom022®
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All-In [40736]
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I knew that Brad Brownell was the best coach ever.
Jan 22, 2020, 4:14 PM
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Now I’ve got the stats to prove it. Thanks
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CU Medallion [64517]
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The average FT shooting percentage ...
Jan 22, 2020, 4:14 PM
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at the collegiate level is about .690
Based on the 31 seasons you listed, Clemson has been below average 22 times or more than 70% of the time.
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Legend [17241]
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Clemson FTs followed the economy in 2007 !?!?***
Jan 22, 2020, 4:16 PM
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Orange Blooded [3047]
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You wouldn't possibly have the years from Bobby Roberts***
Jan 22, 2020, 4:24 PM
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CU Guru [1997]
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Re: I know it's fashionable to complain about free throws
Jan 22, 2020, 4:29 PM
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I think it just comes down to guys mentally being prepared and making shots. If we were a high school basketball team you could blame it on coaching, but these are highly skilled D1 basketball players who all have good form for the most part, there is only so much coaching to be done when it comes to free throws.
I agree with you, there has been no difference in coaching and yet you get the array of FT %'s as given. Guys just have to start knocking them down!
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110%er [9670]
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Nice research. But... Purnell, Barnes, and some of Ellis’s teams
1
Jan 22, 2020, 4:29 PM
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were all better and more fun to watch.
And you have better facilities, Brad.
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110%er [6280]
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Re: Nice research. But... Purnell, Barnes, and some of Ellis’s teams
Jan 22, 2020, 7:52 PM
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How were those teams better? Sure Purnell had a couple of good years with Booker but we never could get anywhere in the tourney. I would say BB has done just as good as any other coach at Clemson in my lifetime for certain(27). I would like to see us be better for sure but Clemson basketball had always been mediocre.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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Come on now
Jan 22, 2020, 4:55 PM
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Anything below .700 is horrible
Using past stats on Clemson means nothing.
We have Always been horrible. I don't blame him for continuing this tradition.
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Orange Blooded [2025]
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Re: Come on now
Jan 22, 2020, 5:00 PM
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The NCAA average is 68%
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CU Medallion [73569]
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Avg is now good? If u don't hit .700
Jan 22, 2020, 5:42 PM
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You are just hurting your team.
Avg is top 100 cause bb includes like 200 teams or something crazy like that
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CU Medallion [64989]
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There are currrently 193 teams in the country shooting 0.700
Jan 22, 2020, 7:05 PM
[ in reply to Come on now ] |
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or better from the free throw line.
Interestingly the below teams are all NOT in the top 193:
#198: Va. Tech: Shooting 0.695
#263 Duke: Shooting 0.672
#300 Boston College: Shooting 0.655
#301 Clemson: Shooting 0.655
#311: Ga. Tech: Shooting 0.650
#314: North Carolina: Shooting 0.648
Non ACC, but
#344: SOUTH CAROLINA: Shooting 0.613 (And they beat us.  )
In any past years, I would NEVER have expected to see Dook or the Tarholes approaching the same Black Hole suckage as us from the charity stripe. But, hey, if that's what it took for us to beat them, there ain't no asterisk beside those wins! 
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All-TigerNet [14751]
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Re: I know it's fashionable to complain about free throws
Jan 22, 2020, 4:57 PM
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Actual research and facts rather than a bunch of nonsense, the internet is not place for you my friend.
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Legend [15212]
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WE MADE 6 of the last 8!!
Jan 22, 2020, 5:04 PM
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We're currently on a HOT STREAK!
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CU Guru [1437]
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Re: I know it's fashionable to complain about free throws
Jan 22, 2020, 5:04 PM
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OK you got me, I'll bite.
You're logic is flawed in comparing this season with our own prior seasons to argue "we've never been good at free throws." You would have to look at other teams that were considered good in the 2010-2020 basketball seasons and compare Brownell against them. I won't take the time to look up each of the past years free throw rankings and instead place where each of his teams would rank if they were playing this year.
2019-2020: .655 - 302nd
2018-2019: .732 - 86th
2017-2018: .755 - 46th
2016-2017: .731 - 87th
2015-2016: .723 - 107th
2014-2015: .682 - 233rd
2013-2014: .744 - 64th
2012-2013: .654 - 305th
2011-2012: .670 - 271st
2010-2011: .701 - 183rd
Is having an average ranking of 168th considered good to you?
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Legend [15212]
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I think, in general, we have had poor shooters.
Jan 22, 2020, 5:10 PM
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We've never been a team under Brownell, Purnell, even Barnes who would just light it up offensively.
All of those coaches have been defensive minded first. So, when you don't have good shooters, then you generally don't shoot very well from the free throw line.
That's just my opinion.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: I know it's fashionable to complain about free throws
Jan 22, 2020, 5:17 PM
[ in reply to Re: I know it's fashionable to complain about free throws ] |
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Nobody is saying we don't have an issue w/ free throws this year. It needs to improve.
The point of the post IMO is that Brownell significantly improved FT shooting over our prior coaches. That is a fact.
FT% ranking is kind of misleading as well. As in the difference between us being in the 300's and 190 is only making 1 extra free throw each game. That's not really game changing. The best team in the ACC isn't even in the top 25.
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Orange Blooded [3612]
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: I know it's fashionable to complain about free throws
Jan 22, 2020, 6:05 PM
[ in reply to Re: I know it's fashionable to complain about free throws ] |
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Oh yeah, I can spin stats too....
Our average FT % for the last 5 years would be good for 5th in the ACC this year. Simply put, over the last 5 years our FT % has been above average when comparing to other ACC schools. This year is an outlier.
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Orange Blooded [2531]
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Uh, the complete "goal" is to score
Jan 22, 2020, 5:04 PM
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those who can't put the ball through the ring are apt to fall short in this sport.
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Orange Blooded [3612]
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Re: I know it's fashionable to complain about free throws
Jan 22, 2020, 5:12 PM
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Thanks for the numbers.
Put differently, out of our Top 10 years of the last 30, Brownell is responsible for 7.
This is an old-fashioned skill. It has nothing to do with cell phones, video games, computer simulations, stipends, cars, nutrition plans or even facilities. It MAY only have to do with team managers being available to fetch balls. Brownell 's players make more FTs in games because they make more in practice. Period.
Clyde Trapp isn't missing FTs due to a failure to practice them.
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CU Medallion [58376]
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Those are the facts.
Jan 22, 2020, 5:15 PM
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We have been much better under Brownell from the FT line. It's been bad as of late, however, and we're currently 12th in the conference. Current frustrations and concerns are legitimate.
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All-In [43992]
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I never said that concern over our free throw shooting the last few games isn’t warranted.
Jan 22, 2020, 7:47 PM
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In fact, I said that it needs to improve.
As stated in my original post, it is INACCCURATE to say that we’re always bad at free throws. As the data show, we’ve been pretty good for most of the last 10 years under our current coach.
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Orange Blooded [2584]
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Re: I know it's fashionable to complain about free throws
Jan 22, 2020, 5:33 PM
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If div 1 power 5 bb player ... free throws should be automatic!
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Legend [15730]
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I didn’t watch but followed on ESPN and see our starting line is 4 Gs, 1 F.
Jan 22, 2020, 5:38 PM
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Should we expect better free-throw shooting from a lineup like that? I haven’t really followed basketball lately, but I always thought that the centers, the big men, were the ones that were known to be bad free-throw shooters.
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Rock Defender [53]
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I think we’ve gotten better under Brad
Jan 22, 2020, 5:53 PM
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Scout Team [193]
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Re: I think we’ve gotten better under Brad
Jan 22, 2020, 6:44 PM
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I guess it would be too much to see our FT percentage in the last 5 minutes of games and pull just that.
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Legend [16226]
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Tommy Bowden led us to 8 bowls in 9 years with the 9th
Jan 22, 2020, 6:19 PM
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year an eligible 'decline.' That's pretty impressive - a better percentage than Danny Ford even.
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All-In [43992]
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That’s true, although there were fewer bowls when Ford was our coach.
Jan 22, 2020, 8:58 PM
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In contrast, a free throw is still 15 feet from the basket. Truly an apples to apples comparison.
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All-In [27366]
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Ridiculous to say "fashionable," but under Brad we have
Jan 22, 2020, 6:50 PM
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definitely been better than most other coaches I remember. And I've been following Clemson BB since Tree Rollins came to town.
I can hardly ever remember a season before BB that we ever were competent with free throws. In fact, back then, it was a big story when a team actually had a good showing on the line. And usually meant we won.
The fact that this team has done poorly is more interesting because under him we made a distinct move toward becoming respectable at the charity stripe.
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All-In [43992]
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It isn’t ridiculous to say "fashionable”
Jan 22, 2020, 9:17 PM
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because I’ve seen dozens of posts here recently acting like we are always bad at free throws. The facts don’t bear that out, hence the reason for my post.
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Replies: 31
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