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Is there no freedom of speech anymore?
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Is there no freedom of speech anymore?


Jun 16, 2020, 9:30 PM

This woman’s message was not racist. Yet she is going to be fired. Is there only freedom of speech if you are speaking for the left movement?

I have things I would say, but I would be fired from my job in a second. And they would be points that make sense, nothing racist.

https://www.wyff4.com/article/vermont-principal-on-paid-leave-following-ignorant-black-lives-matter-post/32885576


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At worst, she had ‘lack of judgement’***


Jun 16, 2020, 9:39 PM



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So no freedom of speech? She should lose her job?***


Jun 16, 2020, 9:49 PM

Is burning a Wendy’s not “lack of judgement “?

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like it or not, leaders should be very selective...


Jun 16, 2020, 9:54 PM

in how they say things, especially when they lead a diverse group. You can say it restricts freedom of speech, I say it is just being wise.

Now on the other hand, leaders should not be FORCED to make statements choosing sides on such an issue.

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Re: like it or not, leaders should be very selective...


Jun 16, 2020, 10:31 PM

But they are being forced to make statements or face loss of jobs. Look at all the college ADs. Freedom of speech is over!

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and I'm saying that should not be...


Jun 16, 2020, 10:33 PM

this principal's choice of words was not wise. But she should not be fired for it.

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I think leaders should lead, not feed hysteria***


Jun 17, 2020, 2:53 PM [ in reply to like it or not, leaders should be very selective... ]



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Re: So no freedom of speech? She should lose her job?***


Jun 16, 2020, 9:58 PM [ in reply to So no freedom of speech? She should lose her job?*** ]

These are such bad faith arguments designed to distract from the main subject. Do you hear anyone saying the woman suspected of the crime shouldn't face consequences?

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"Freedom of speech" and her job status


Jun 17, 2020, 6:16 AM [ in reply to So no freedom of speech? She should lose her job?*** ]

are two different subjects.

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Aren't we supposed to be having honest discussions?


Jun 17, 2020, 8:32 AM [ in reply to So no freedom of speech? She should lose her job?*** ]

Why should we be afraid to lose our jobs over honest discussions?

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You should be honest, and then be fired.***


Jun 17, 2020, 9:20 AM



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If this post was public, should you be fired...


Jun 17, 2020, 10:22 AM

for intolerance?

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Probably.***


Jun 17, 2020, 10:25 AM



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On an unrelated note...where is you work again? :)***


Jun 17, 2020, 10:33 AM



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Tigernet***


Jun 17, 2020, 10:33 AM



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I didn't say any of that


Jun 17, 2020, 10:50 AM [ in reply to So no freedom of speech? She should lose her job?*** ]

At worst, her statement showed lack of judgement. Not something she should lose a job over.

The burning of Wendy's is much much worse. I hope their punishment is much worse than losing a job (assuming they get caught).

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She really didn't say anything wrong


Jun 16, 2020, 10:12 PM



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I was born in Burlington Vermont so I know.


Jun 16, 2020, 10:29 PM

There is about 1 black person you see every day and they drive a Subaru and work at Ben and Jerry’s.

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I'm telling you, the left cheering the alligator...


Jun 16, 2020, 11:18 PM

hoping they will be the last one it eats. Just like the BLM group turned on Honest Abe they will turn on Joe, Nancy and Crying Chuck. It's just a matter of time. They don't want to tear down only confederate monuments they want to teardown America and start from scratch.

It was 'Believe all women,' until they went after Joe.

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Yes, there is freedom of speech.


Jun 17, 2020, 6:17 AM

I wouldn't advocate for firing her for this.

Sometimes I wonder...what's the point of her making the statement she made? What's the good that would come of it? This doesn't just apply to this specific social media post, of course. I see things every day, and I think, what is motivating this person to say this? Is it really necessary?

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What an odd question to ask on a board. Was it necessary?


Jun 17, 2020, 9:32 AM

Of course not. We could all just put our heads down, refrain from offering our thoughts and be told where to go.

The point of the comment was to express her thoughts on one of the most pressing issues of the day. If we are afraid to say, at the very least "Of course black lives matter, but I also think we need to think about the life and safety of law enforcement" then that should give everyone a LOT of concern.

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null


I'll be honest...if anyone I knew


Jun 17, 2020, 9:41 AM

posted here, I would stop posting what I post immediately. My personal relationships are more important than the "venting" of political opinions I do here. So, to me, there is a difference between posting on a message board like this, and posting something designed to be seen by friends, acquaintances, and co-workers.

I believe, whenever we speak, we should evaluate what we are about to say, for whether or not it would be edifying to whomever reads it. I'm not saying her post specifically is not edifying...that's a matter of opinion. I just wonder if she evaluated the pros/cons of making a post like that.

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The point to me is not whether her post was imprudent.


Jun 17, 2020, 10:34 AM

Clearly it was. The point is that her post shouldn't be imprudent. She attacks no one. She recognizes the value of black lives while simultaneously bringing up the value of the lives of police officers as well. Unquestionably, it should be an opportunity for counterarguments and clarifications. It should NOT be grounds for employment ramifications, shaming or hate.

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null


I share your opinion on this specific post.


Jun 17, 2020, 10:41 AM

But ultimately, all that matters is the opinion of her employers, and she answers to them, and is responsible for her posts.

If she's good at her job, she will land on her feet somewhere, and her previous employer may suffer consequences with an inferior replacement. So they'll bear that responsibility.

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Yes...ha ha...if a quality Principal is fired from her


Jun 17, 2020, 10:51 AM

school for a benign tweet due to a toxic political culture, the School Board profits will fall!

Oh no, wait...just the kiddos suffer when this decision is based on politics.

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null


Yes.***


Jun 17, 2020, 10:58 AM



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Right, leaders are being pressed to state something


Jun 17, 2020, 2:55 PM [ in reply to What an odd question to ask on a board. Was it necessary? ]

But, apparently, it's only acceptable to state something that's 100% on board with a certain ideology, and only if you use the right terminology (see Swinney, Dabo).

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Re: Is there no freedom of speech anymore?


Jun 17, 2020, 6:20 AM

She has the same freedom of speech she has always had. The government didn't infringe upon that. That said, I agree that she said nothing wrong. I thought her comment was completely innocuous.

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Employers are not required to allow freedom of speech...


Jun 17, 2020, 7:46 AM

expression or behavior.

NFL owners can drop players for behavior and even speech. Seems some folks support that repercussion for a player kneeling during the National Anthem.

The cliche “that knife cuts both ways” is appropriate.

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Well, unless said behavior involves


Jun 17, 2020, 7:54 AM

275 pound Gerald in accounting starting to wear halter tops and heels.

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Thanks -That visual will give me nightmares! LBOD preferred***


Jun 17, 2020, 8:11 AM



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Thanks -That visual will give me nightmares! LBOD preferred***


Jun 17, 2020, 8:11 AM [ in reply to Well, unless said behavior involves ]



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Glad she got fired.


Jun 17, 2020, 7:50 AM

The persecution of a-holes has begun.

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Are you Sirius Clark?***


Jun 17, 2020, 8:26 AM



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100%


Jun 17, 2020, 8:37 AM

The pendulum must swing.

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Well I think that is utter BS...


Jun 17, 2020, 8:51 AM

you want the pendulum to swing from what SHE said? Come on man.

I'll tell you this...that kind of thinking is what actually keeps real change from happening. If people feel like they can't express any reasonable opinion that doesn't toe the line of what the most aggressively liberal deems as "acceptable" then there will not be any meaningful conversation/dialogue. People of opposing views will simply shut-up and harbor resentment. There will be no changing of minds or softening of hearts on either side.

There's no way that can lead to anything positive.

People are actually overtly villainizing all police/law enforcement now...just for being law enforcement. That's not going to end well, for anyone.

The movement now has the chance to either improve racial justice or make it worse. I fear that the censoring of any and all opinions that don't line up exactly with woke doctorine is going to lead to more divisiveness and not less.

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Keep that attitude.


Jun 17, 2020, 9:18 AM

When the pendulum reached its zenith in this direction, we'll need you to help it not swing back too far in the other direction.

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You just made a VERY valid point


Jun 17, 2020, 11:28 AM [ in reply to Well I think that is utter BS... ]



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Spooneye apparently wants you fired for that post***


Jun 17, 2020, 3:19 PM [ in reply to Well I think that is utter BS... ]



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Re: Glad she got fired.


Jun 17, 2020, 9:04 AM [ in reply to Glad she got fired. ]

What did she say that was so awful? It was very mild and overall was positive.

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Re: Glad she got fired.


Jun 17, 2020, 9:19 AM

It was a long-winded "all lives matter," and I'm glad she got fired.

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Re: Glad she got fired.


Jun 17, 2020, 9:45 AM

Dabo said that as well basically initially. We know his heart is good. It seems harsh to fire a person for something so mild. JMO

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Major yikes***


Jun 17, 2020, 2:58 PM [ in reply to Glad she got fired. ]



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They teach us all the time at work...


Jun 17, 2020, 8:40 AM

to be careful what you post to social media, because reflecting negatively on the company to the public is very much a fireable offense.

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It should be stressed that she was not fired for


Jun 17, 2020, 8:43 AM

having an opinion, or having a thought, but for the action of the public post.

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A couple of points... (1) does she not work for the...


Jun 17, 2020, 8:53 AM

government and (2) is a post on Facebook (assuming she has privacy controls set in some manner) public?

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If it's public enough for her employer to know about


Jun 17, 2020, 8:55 AM

it, then it's public.

I don't see why it matters who her employer is, personally.

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If she works for the government then she should....


Jun 17, 2020, 9:44 AM

be protected from actions related to her private speech.

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That's a valid and well-reasoned opinion.


Jun 17, 2020, 9:45 AM

I tend to be a little more strict in my Constitutional interpretation, in that I think "freedom of speech" is about "Congress not making any laws"....legal ramifications.

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Love you Prod, but if your posts were a movie character


Jun 17, 2020, 9:06 AM [ in reply to They teach us all the time at work... ]

https://youtu.be/NSbfFsB_Jpg

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Re: Is there no freedom of speech anymore?


Jun 17, 2020, 9:20 AM

Anyone who thinks that woman should be fired doesn't deserve a voice anywhere. That statement is completely fine and there's nothing wrong with it.

Come on you fcking liberal a-holes, why don't you just go ahead and post that you want more cops killed. Is 5 or 6 killed recently due to G Floyd not enough? Should this woman be put to death? If she wrote what she wrote, she surely must have been thinking worse.

You people are pathetic and stupid. I hope the illegal immigrant bus from the border parks in front of your house to unload and your house is fcking burned to the ground, with your dog in it. As the last flame is extinguished you can just take solace in the fact that you've had white privilege so long, you finally got what you deserved.

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Ironic sentence here


Jun 17, 2020, 9:21 AM

"Anyone who thinks that woman should be fired doesn't deserve a voice anywhere. "

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Re: Is there no freedom of speech anymore?


Jun 17, 2020, 10:05 AM [ in reply to Re: Is there no freedom of speech anymore? ]

Did I black out the last couple of days or is the 5 or 6 cops thing still complete bs?

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Two more cops killed


Jun 17, 2020, 10:53 AM [ in reply to Re: Is there no freedom of speech anymore? ]

Where's your outrage?

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-06-16/suspects-charged-killing-santa-cruz-cop-and-oakland-federal-officer

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This kid is quickly climbing the ranks...


Jun 17, 2020, 11:23 AM [ in reply to Re: Is there no freedom of speech anymore? ]

Of P&R's most mental poster. Watch out, Crash and Chesty, wherever you are.

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[Catahoula] used to be almost solely a PnR rascal, but now has adopted shidpoasting with a passion. -bengaline

You are the meme master. - RPMcMurphy®

Trump is not a phony. - RememberTheDanny


A First Amendment reminder


Jun 17, 2020, 10:37 AM

The First Amendment protects you from the government prosecuting you or censoring your speech. It doesn't protect you from an employer deciding to punish you for your speech.

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[Catahoula] used to be almost solely a PnR rascal, but now has adopted shidpoasting with a passion. -bengaline

You are the meme master. - RPMcMurphy®

Trump is not a phony. - RememberTheDanny


But the govenment was/is her employer.***


Jun 17, 2020, 11:14 AM



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https://as1.ftcdn.net/v2/jpg/00/81/16/28/1000_F_81162810_8TlZDomtVuVGlyqWL2I4HA7Wlqw7cr5a.jpg


Re: But the govenment was/is her employer.***


Jun 17, 2020, 11:22 AM

But she wasn't prosecuted or faced legal recourse. She wasn't censored. And I would wager her employer has language in her contract that she agrees to that covers these bases.

Do I agree with her punishment? No. But it's not a First Amendment violation.

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[Catahoula] used to be almost solely a PnR rascal, but now has adopted shidpoasting with a passion. -bengaline

You are the meme master. - RPMcMurphy®

Trump is not a phony. - RememberTheDanny


She may actually have a suit, then


Jun 17, 2020, 3:12 PM

Unless there's some sort of clause in her contract like you mentioned.

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It's not a freedom of speech issue, but it's a problem


Jun 17, 2020, 2:52 PM

Too many people now seem to believe that taking any exception to something going on in the "anti-racist" movement will derail the movement, therefore no exceptions can be allowed. That kind of mindset is self-defeating because it either engenders a backlash or leads to bad policy because nobody is thinking seriously about what to do out of fear they'll be ostracized. It also has potential to unleash a backlash that might be equally as unreasonable, because people see that being reasonable will get you fired, too.

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