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Replies: 44
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110%er [6403]
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All-In [38422]
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Re: Deccootment Again????
Jul 12, 2018, 9:32 AM
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Re-Decoot
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Legend [17786]
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lol, 9 Lives look at these "Linebackers"
Jul 12, 2018, 9:35 AM
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All-In [40100]
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if they were wearing orange I’d believe if I was told pic of our wimminz clinic***
Jul 12, 2018, 9:42 AM
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Orange Blooded [3982]
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Orange Blooded [2332]
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Re: Deccootment Again????
Jul 12, 2018, 10:15 AM
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Sounds like Davis apparently felt he would be alpha-dog where he went and now is reluctantly learning he has to earn his place. Wish him luck in figuring out that life isn't fair and that circumstances change.
Go Tigers!
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Orange Blooded [2926]
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Re: Deccootment Again????
Jul 12, 2018, 10:36 AM
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More to come
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Heisman Winner [133801]
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check bounce?***
Jul 12, 2018, 11:01 AM
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Hall of Famer [22965]
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If this is indeed the "final" time Davis, jr is
Jul 12, 2018, 11:26 AM
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off the updated roster as the article states, it'll be because the usuck staff already has somebody they consider a better talent....otherwise, he'd have Stephen Garcia carte blanche to do what he liked and always be welcomed back
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Letterman [276]
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Re: Deccootment Again????
Jul 12, 2018, 12:02 PM
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He was a walk-on. Personally I am happy when a player decides to transfer, it usually means that they have been passed on the depth chart by someone better.
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CU Guru [1845]
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Re: Deccootment Again????
Jul 12, 2018, 12:44 PM
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Yeah that's what SCar fans said about our guys that transferred lol
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Letterman [276]
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Re: Deccootment Again????
Jul 12, 2018, 1:41 PM
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I don't follow you guys that closely but I would think that besides Belk that would be the case. For example you bring in TL and after Spring the writing was on the wall so you get QB transfers. Now QB is the toughest position to have depth at since normally only one guy gets to play but it's still the same at every position. Transfers means you are bringing in better players and the guys who want to play but find themselves falling on the depth chart transfer to somewhere they can see the field.
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Hall of Famer [20520]
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Re: Deccootment Again????
Jul 12, 2018, 2:20 PM
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I don't follow you guys that closely but I would think that besides Belk that would be the case. For example you bring in TL and after Spring the writing was on the wall so you get QB transfers. Now QB is the toughest position to have depth at since normally only one guy gets to play but it's still the same at every position. Transfers means you are bringing in better players and the guys who want to play but find themselves falling on the depth chart transfer to somewhere they can see the field.
That is not necessarily what transfers mean. Transfers indicate disillusion.
You guys basically tried to play Clemson the last couple of years with 30-35 guys, with a couple more seeing a few snaps on ST's.
Clemson rolled 60-70 guys back at you - we go 3-deep at most positions, and we play them - and I think the results pretty much speak for themselves.
Jake Bentley is the only QB, for instance, who completed a pass for Carolina last year. God help you guys if something happens to him.
Clemson, on the other hand, has three guys at QB we legitimately feel we can win with - Bryant, Lawrence, Brice - and this is even after former 5-star Hunter Johnson transferred to Northwestern.
We had 4 RB's who saw extensive time last year - Etienne, Feaster, Choice, Fuller - and all of them got 50+ carries for 200+ yards, all got at least 3 TD's, and all appeared in virtually every game.
We had 9 receivers who played regularly, and got 10+ catches on the year...well, you get the idea.
Clemson plays its guys. Carolina under Muschamp doesn't. He's almost as bad as Bobby Petrino at Louisville at that. The Champ just does not believe in playing his bench guys so he has 30 guys or so who pretty much play every snap, and the rest sort of...sit. All year. Which results in massive transfers.
I don't remember if it was this past offseason or the one prior, but between new signings, transfers in, and walk-ons, Muschamp brought in 39 new guys in one offseason. That's some serious attrition, there.
Clemson, on the other hand, has signed fewer players than any school in FBS over the last five years - including even Stanford. Losing guys like Belk is rare as heck for us and quite frankly he just plain didn't fit here. Carolina will likely discover why soon.
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Letterman [276]
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Re: Deccootment Again????
Jul 12, 2018, 4:27 PM
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No doubt that Dabo has built a team with quality depth. Muschamp inherited a team with only a handful of decent players which resulted in little to no depth. And yes, you can see the results when we played you and other quality teams. The reason Muschamp didn't play as many players is because there wasn't anyone good enough to play. The only way out of that hole is through recruiting and as you recruit quality players others transfer when they realize they are getting passed up by, in our case, incoming freshman.
There are similarities to Dabo and Muschamp. Both are relentless recruiters, both started out while our respective conference divisions were down (you guys had Fla St we have Georgia but nothing else). Of course now your division is stronger with Louisville and NC State playing well while with us Florida and Tennessee are still (like us) rebuilding. And both are good coaches though until Muschamp gets a OC worth the time of day Dabo definitely has the upper hand (I'm not saying that Muschamp is as good as Dabo but I do think that he has the potential to be).
Anyways I hope you get my point.
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Hall of Famer [20520]
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Re: Deccootment Again????
Jul 12, 2018, 4:58 PM
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They aren't the same. They're almost polar opposites. Trust me, I coach.
There are two main approaches when it comes to developing players...actually, when it comes to leadership in general. Approach #1 is the "brotherhood" approach...basically, the rising tide must lift all boats and everybody's in those boats together. You make it a point to play a lot more younger, rawer players and while there's a depth chart you try to erase the idea of the "haves" and "have-nots" and really place an emphasis on the older guys mentoring the younger ones...even if he's competing for your job.
The obvious weakness of this approach, obviously, is you're going to have younger or less experienced players taking the snaps the older or better players could have taken. You're going to have to live with their mistakes. You're also going to have to work hard. You have to have an open-door approach. You have to have an eye constantly peeled on the attitude and well-being of your players...if a guy is getting the Big Head and being a jerk towards his teammates, you've gotta reign him in. If a guy is drooping, you've gotta give him extra attention and pick him up. And especially you've got to care about your players enough to notice.
Approach #2 is pretty much fear-based. Cull all weakness. If the horse can't shoot the hurdle, shoot the horse, and get a better one. Therefore, it follows with relentless logic that to avoid being treated like the horse that couldn't make the metaphorical jump, all players will bust their tails to avoid being one of the ones that gets capped...and the weak and unworthy will fall.
In football, this plays out with there being starters - the guys who matter - and non-starters, those being the ones who don't and the ones the coach would rather be rid of, and there is a clear hierarchy. On teams like this the unwanted guys usually quickly get the message in a variety of ways and quit. Opening the door for still more horses.
Approach #2 is also a lot easier. You don't have to spend your time holding every kid's hand. Just pure and simple business.
Dabo is the obvious poster boy for Approach #1. Walk around Clemson's football complex sometime and you'll get the idea. There's kids running around, players hanging around, playing ping-pong or watching film or just hanging. Everybody's friendly and relaxed almost to the point you wonder if anyone actually works there. There's so much positive energy around it's almost disgusting, actually.
Sorry, Muschamp is a glaring example of Approach #2. He's a Saban-tree guy, like almost of the SEC. He's all business, all the time. He's not even remotely afraid to run a kid off. If a kid fails, great, that's one more spot for the next guy.
I will leave it to you to determine if this approach is really what Carolina needs. Are there really an infinite supply of quality football players available to Carolina?
Just between you and me and a fencepost, the guy I would really fear at Carolina is Charlie Strong. Who is another adherent of Approach #1...
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Letterman [276]
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Re: Deccootment Again????
Jul 12, 2018, 6:02 PM
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You make some very good points and are spot on with most of them. But you have to keep in mind that Muschamp inherited a 3 win team that lost to the #!$%ing Citadel. The team was depleted of quality talent when he took over so being a coach with approach #2 was purely out of necessity. Now if the same thing is going on 2-3 years down the road then I will agree with your assessment 100%. But for now Muschamp is still in rebuilding mode where Dabo has been recruiting at a high level for going on 10 years now so he has the luxury of playing more players because he simply has more talent to work with.
Thanks for a great conversation on our football teams. I really enjoy when I can come here now and then and actually talk football in a civil manor. Now I may be way off on my assessment of Muschamp, I am a little bias, but seeing what he has done here in a short time with what he inherited does give me confidence that he has us moving in the right direction. Hopefully one day soon we can play ya'll on the field and actually make a game of it.
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CU Guru [1852]
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Re: Deccootment Again????
Jul 12, 2018, 6:36 PM
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Great posts from both sides actually. What makes me feel good about the Muschamp approach is not only the need for recruitment but also development and motivation.
No doubt Muschamp works hard at recruiting, selling South Carolina was and in a way still is a tough recruiting pitch. Despite that, he is getting some depth. However, look at his coaching background. He can recruit, even develop players into NFL quality guys who get drafted. However, I think his short comings are motivation on Gameday. He allows his guys to act foolish (see the racist accusations, the antics in Columbia last year allowing late hits, flopping, etc...). No debating his approach doesn’t translate to wins and personally I believe it’s due to the Workman approach Dabo takes on gameday. We all know Dabo is a players coach but come gameday, he expects a certain behavior that better translates to wins.
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Hall of Famer [22965]
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110%er [5093]
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Re: Deccootment Again????
Jul 12, 2018, 8:33 PM
[ in reply to Re: Deccootment Again???? ] |
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Quozzel, your orange glasses are showing.
You're making a faulty assumption that Muschamp is just choosing not to play guys. Instead of accepting that maybe Muschamp can't rely on some of the players on our roster. He's currently in the process of turning over a roster that was void of talent when he took over the job.
Jake Bentley threw all the passes because we literally don't have anyone else. That isn't Muschamp's fault the previous staff didn't leave him with a competent signal caller. You're also being biased when you include Brice. Brice hasn't thrown a pass yet, you're basing it merely on recruiting rankings.
You're also wrong about the RBs. You claim you guys have 4 that had at least 50 carries. We had 4 that had at least 40. You also played an extra game than us and had a better offense that led to more opportunities.
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Hall of Famer [20520]
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Re: Deccootment Again????
Jul 12, 2018, 11:13 PM
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'09 is just a contrarian Gamecock troll here to needle us...and I really wish Crump would zap him. The other guy is fine.
Whatever, '09 is wrong...as pretty much always.
Brice is legit. He won the 7A Georgia title...which is a higher level than a 2A college. Best comparison is Charlie Whitehurst. Remember him?
Also...Carolina played 4 RB's because Rico Dowdle went down during the Tennessee game and AJ Turner had some dings, including a high ankle sprain that took him off in the first half against Clemson. It wasn't about any sort of developmental philosophy. And "appearances" is another thing entirely, as he probably already well knows. I'd parse that one but I already can guess how scattershot the appearances of guys 3 and 4 was.
Coaches with the win-or-die approach just plain treat their starters differently, and they punish the guys who don't come out on top. In their minds, it's justified, because the non-starters failed to win their jobs. I've seen it time and time again - even with coaches who are coaching kids.
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CU Guru [1344]
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Re: Deccootment Again????
Jul 13, 2018, 6:28 AM
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'09 is just a contrarian Gamecock troll here to needle us...and I really wish Crump would zap him. The other guy is fine.
Whatever, '09 is wrong...as pretty much always.
Brice is legit. He won the 7A Georgia title...which is a higher level than a 2A college. Best comparison is Charlie Whitehurst. Remember him?
Also...Carolina played 4 RB's because Rico Dowdle went down during the Tennessee game and AJ Turner had some dings, including a high ankle sprain that took him off in the first half against Clemson. It wasn't about any sort of developmental philosophy. And "appearances" is another thing entirely, as he probably already well knows. I'd parse that one but I already can guess how scattershot the appearances of guys 3 and 4 was.
Coaches with the win-or-die approach just plain treat their starters differently, and they punish the guys who don't come out on top. In their minds, it's justified, because the non-starters failed to win their jobs. I've seen it time and time again - even with coaches who are coaching kids.
I am batting 100% in request to have coots ban. I have not requested coot69 to be banned because he seems to be just special.
Message was edited by: reynolds®
Message was edited by: reynolds®
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110%er [5093]
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Re: Deccootment Again????
Jul 13, 2018, 8:06 AM
[ in reply to Re: Deccootment Again???? ] |
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I’m not surprised you wouldn’t like posters that are smart enough to poke the holes in your argument.
Again, you’re basing your opinion on high school. If you feel those accomplishments make your argument valid, then you must believe Joyner can win games for us this year if called upon.
Now you’re changing your argument. You were arguing Muschamp was just unwilling to play backups. Now he only plays backups because he has to? Even though he could have done what you were arguing and got by without Mon Denson?
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110%er [6662]
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Re: Deccootment Again????
Jul 13, 2018, 8:09 AM
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Gee, what are you not UNDERSTANDING!! Muscoot does NOT like to play kids to get them experience UNLESS FORCED by injury. You coots are definitely a different breed of dumb. Surely, you chickens can beat Coastal Carolina this year. Reckon any quarterback other than Bent will throw at least ONE pass? And for the record, Joyner will not see down 1 at QB. Clemson knew it. Everyone knew it. Good job of lieing by Muscoot to get him there on the premise.
Message was edited by: fencebusters®
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CU Guru [1040]
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CU Guru [1344]
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Legend [17786]
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.......................................................BOOM!***
Jul 13, 2018, 9:05 AM
[ in reply to Re: Deccootment Again???? ] |
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Hall of Famer [22965]
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lmao.....you're right...normally when a player leaves
Jul 12, 2018, 4:44 PM
[ in reply to Re: Deccootment Again???? ] |
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usuck (assuming its not arrest related) its because the chicken staff has recruited someone they think has a higher upside than the person being "run off". I don't want to engage a chickenfan on the ethics of "running off" players who've kept their noses clean, showed up for practice everyday and maintained sufficient academics to retain their athletic scholarship because regardless of your true opinion of that despicable practice, you'd be forced to defend the action just because its your favorite team......and I hope and pray the powers that be at Clemson never adopt the usuck/SEC norm. Sure, Clemson has players transfer, but its almost always because of playing time---not because they've been informed their athletic scholarship won't be renewed
Message was edited by: tigrjm76®
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Letterman [276]
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Re: lmao.....you're right...normally when a player leaves
Jul 12, 2018, 6:08 PM
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Well again, when you take over a dumpster fire of a program that is depleted of talent you either do whatever it takes to win or you won't be around for very long. Now I'm sure there were players who were told that if they ever wanted to see the field that they would be better off somewhere else but in all reality it's the truth. Spurrier let this program go to Hell and walked away mid season. Muschamp has the job of bringing back to a winning program. You simply can't do that without talent.
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CU Guru [1286]
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Walk-on?
Jul 12, 2018, 8:54 PM
[ in reply to Re: Deccootment Again???? ] |
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Am I missing something?
The kid was highly recruited
You guys considered him to be a recruiting victory
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Letterman [276]
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Re: Walk-on?
Jul 13, 2018, 6:25 AM
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Am I missing something?
The kid was highly recruited
You guys considered him to be a recruiting victory
Yes, walk-on. He originally committed to Auburn and left after one year. He then walked on at USC with the possibility of a scholarship in the future. He quit the team after a short stint and asked to come back a few months later which Muschamp again let him walk on. Now he has quit football again. I just don't think his heart was ever in it at any program.
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CU Guru [1286]
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Letter of the law vs. the spirit of it
Jul 13, 2018, 2:04 PM
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Stephen Davis, Jr. had a standing offer.
I understand your word use now, but your post, if read without context, makes it sound like he was less than a highly desired recruit for your team.
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Letterman [276]
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Re: Letter of the law vs. the spirit of it
Jul 13, 2018, 2:23 PM
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The kid has natural born talent but it seems that he doesn't have the desire to play at this level. Unlike High School where you play on talent alone in college it takes a lot more than that to succeed and there is a lot more expected from you. On talent alone he was well worth a walk-on spot with the chance of a scholarship and even a second chance. Hopefully the young man finds what he is looking for in life away from football.
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CU Guru [1286]
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Hmm
Jul 13, 2018, 7:53 PM
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I didn’t realize he was a bust at Auburn before transferring
Wasted talent is a sad thing
Maybe he’ll find his vocation yet
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All-In [27366]
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That's a re-de-cootment***
Jul 12, 2018, 12:10 PM
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Orange Blooded [4101]
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Re: Deccootment Again????
Jul 12, 2018, 4:53 PM
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That kid clearly never had his Dads work ethic and drive. S. DAVIS was a beast that i hate played for the wrong Tigers. Watched him dismantle a pretty good Sumter team at State Championship and had a monster final year for Aubie, def Heisman worthy imo. Still, I doubt he had quite the same struggle and grind as his dad.
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Hall of Famer [22127]
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Re: Deccootment Again????
Jul 12, 2018, 9:08 PM
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Shocking, just shocking !!!! There are some excellent posts in this thread. It's good to see a topic discussed in a civil manner with supporting facts.
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110%er [6662]
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Re: Deccootment Again????
Jul 13, 2018, 5:34 AM
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What's lost in this "good conversation between coots and tigers" is the overall attitude of the program and the school itself. Muschamp does not promote respect for other players or teach how to play the game right. Examples: flopping Bentley. There is NOTHING honorable about the fake flops, and when asked about it, he blew it off as Bentley "doing what he could to help the team win". He has a lot of loose cannons on his team that just simply can't keep their mouths shut and play ball. You can bet that there is more to the story about Belk leaving Clemson and going to usuck. Don't think for a minute that muscoot wasn't involved somehow. Just seen too many instances of coot player behavior to think he will ever reach Dabo's consistency and success.
Message was edited by: fencebusters®
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Letterman [276]
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Re: Deccootment Again????
Jul 13, 2018, 6:34 AM
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Not sure what you would expect him to say publicly about Bentley's flopping but I'm sure something was said in private. I'm not going to get into a ethics argument here because that would only ruin what has been a great conversation. All I will say is Muschamp is doing what he can to win with a dumpster fire of a team that he inherited. If there was ever any doubt of how much all his players love him take a look at the post game of last years game against Florida, every player that either played for him or he recruited came to him with a hug. Resentful players don't do that.
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110%er [6662]
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Re: Deccootment Again????
Jul 13, 2018, 8:03 AM
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What was he supposed to say? It should have been stopped after the FIRST time, not the 3rd and 4th time. What would Dabo have said? Nothing, it would only have happened once. When you have to get a last second FG to beat Louisiana Tech AT HOME, and your players and fans react like they just won a playoff game, then your program clearly has a long way to go. Two years ago, Clemson squeezed out a win against NCST at home. Walking out of the stadium, there were no high fives. You'd have thought everyone just left a funeral. That is the difference between the fanbases and the coaching philosophy. Your team is still a dumpster fire three years into his coaching. You guys don't see it for the garnet glasses. Here, this sums it up. Coot trash talking is just talking. Another example: a basketball school as owned you four straight years, yet EVERYONE in your fan base calls them an easy win.....every year. You guys just need to be quiet until you do something relevant.
Since the last time SCar beat Kentucky:
Clemson has:
2 Orange Bowl wins
1 Fiesta Bowl win
3 College Football Playoff appearances
3 Conference Championships
1 NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP
4 straight wins against their "rival"
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Letterman [276]
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Re: Deccootment Again????
Jul 13, 2018, 9:00 AM
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So out of everything I have said in this thread all you got out of it was Bentley and his flopping? I don't like the flopping either, to be honest it's pretty embarrassing. And I never said that we were back to where we were, I said that I believe that Muschamp is going to get us there. Yes, the team celebrated a come back win over a team that they should have beat handily but it's not like we were playing for championships the prior years. And no one hates the losses to Kentucky more than me but I don't make excuses, it is what it is.
I did not come here to talk trash or bash your program. I do not ignore reality or try to blow smoke up anyone's @$$. I just saw a thread about my team and joined the conversation in a respectful manor. It was a great conversation and I really enjoyed talking with quozzel, he is very knowledgeable and made some great points. Football season is almost here so I thought I would visit and talk a little football with ya'll.
Hope you have a great day.
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110%er [6662]
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Re: Deccootment Again????
Jul 13, 2018, 9:10 AM
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You talk about "inheriting a dumpster fire", I'm just making sure you know it's STILL a dumpster fire, and will be for a while in many ways. The Bentley incidents (I.e. Never again, they aren't really that much better than us, the flopping, the so-called "racial slurs before the game", etc etc is a product of Muschamp coaching mentoring. Basically, most of the stuff you said is just smoke. Reality hits and I know it's hard for you guys to handle. Muscoot is a piece of crap. Just the way I see it.
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110%er [6662]
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Posts: 9535
Joined: 1/16/99
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Re: Deccootment Again????
Jul 13, 2018, 9:18 AM
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Nevermind, southern. I'll leave you alone. I know it's tough waking up every morning and realizing your rival owns you in all the sports that count. Be happy with beating the Coastal Carolina and Louisiana Techs of the world. Word of warning, Kentucky is on your schedule again this year.
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Letterman [276]
TigerPulse: 66%
Posts: 366
Joined: 3/9/11
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Re: Deccootment Again????
Jul 13, 2018, 9:21 AM
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Nevermind, southern. I'll leave you alone. I know it's tough waking up every morning and realizing your rival owns you in all the sports that count. Be happy with beating the Coastal Carolina and Louisiana Techs of the world. Word of warning, Kentucky is on your schedule again this year.
I'll tell you what. If we lose to Kentucky I will come here and let ya'll have at it. Of course it will probably be after a week long drunk.
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Letterman [276]
TigerPulse: 66%
Posts: 366
Joined: 3/9/11
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Re: Deccootment Again????
Jul 13, 2018, 9:19 AM
[ in reply to Re: Deccootment Again???? ] |
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Fair enough. We are all entitled to our opinion and I will leave it at that.
Again, have a great day and enjoy your weekend.
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110%er [5222]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4631
Joined: 10/28/02
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I mean honestly...
Jul 14, 2018, 9:22 AM
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would you want to stay in that h3ll hole?
Go Tigers!
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