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Replies: 57
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Letterman [257]
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Congratulations to Clemson.
Oct 5, 2015, 1:43 PM
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I've been hearing in the ND forums that the loss to Clemson is all Kelly's fault, or the O-line, or the receivers, or the defense, or the rain, and on and on it goes. It's all completely not true. The loss is all Clemson's fault.
Congratulations to Clemson for playing a great game under very difficult conditions. You guys wanted the win just a little bit worse than we did. Best of luck for the rest of the season, and I hope we get a rematch in the playoffs.
Bob Rodes
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CU Guru [1211]
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Re: Congratulations to Clemson.
Oct 5, 2015, 1:45 PM
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Great game and best of luck the rest of the season.
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110%er [6610]
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You guys need to join the ACC and we can play more
Oct 5, 2015, 1:47 PM
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This could be a special series
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Orange Blooded [4896]
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Re: You guys need to join the ACC and we can play more
Oct 5, 2015, 1:51 PM
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Exactly. I could easily see a scenario where ND gets left out this year. Whereas is they were playing on the other side of the conference (and Lord knows they need a good team) there could be a re-match and a way for ND to make it (although I think we'd beat them again). The set-up this year may get them to join.
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Oculus Spirit [90772]
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thX ?? BOB...
Oct 5, 2015, 1:54 PM
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Go??TiGERS...keep Rocking!
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Oculus Spirit [93621]
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I don't think they can afford the cut in pay.
Oct 6, 2015, 2:37 AM
[ in reply to Re: You guys need to join the ACC and we can play more ] |
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As long as popular opinion pushed them up in the polls they will never join a conference. They'll take an appearance once every 15 years and laugh every time they get pounded in the game. Money is the same, win or lose.
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Letterman [257]
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Re: I don't think they can afford the cut in pay.
Oct 6, 2015, 3:34 PM
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Cynic.
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Oculus Spirit [93621]
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If I take out the cheap shot will you refute the remainder?***
Oct 6, 2015, 4:42 PM
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Letterman [257]
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Re: If I take out the cheap shot will you refute the remainder?***
Oct 9, 2015, 1:22 AM
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Seems like your statement, when rendered into plain speech, boils down to this: "Notre Dame is high in the polls because of popular opinion, not because of how good a team they are. They don't care about winning or losing either, they only care about money. Since they're not going to make more money joining a conference, they won't do it."
If we remove the cheap shots (emphasis on plural), what's left is the last sentence, which I agree with. Since I agree with it, I'm not inclined to refute it. So, I guess the short answer to your question is no. Perhaps that makes me a cynic too. 
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110%er [6582]
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agreed, I hate its so long until trip to SB
Oct 5, 2015, 1:54 PM
[ in reply to You guys need to join the ACC and we can play more ] |
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Although, I guess we could still try to schedule before then. 2019 I think is just the next time we are obligated by contract to play, nothing says we cant schedule them other years.
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Orange Blooded [2928]
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Re: agreed, I hate its so long until trip to SB
Oct 5, 2015, 2:10 PM
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Would be fun, but not going to happen before 2020. We play Auburn in 2016 and 2017, and A&M in 2018 and 2019. Even if we did decide to play 3 P5 teams out of conference in the same year, our ooc schedule is already full, so we would have to cancel one of the games... very, very unlikely we play them again in a regular season game before 2020.
http://www.fbschedules.com/ncaa/acc/clemson-tigers.php
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All-In [30766]
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Any one who would fault the online in that game doesn't know Jack
Oct 5, 2015, 2:02 PM
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All but one of our sacks were coverage sacks.
That was the best pass blocking I've ever seen. . Even when we brought pressure.
They lived up to thier hype, imo.
Clemson committed to stopping the run which we did.
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Oculus Spirit [80039]
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Thanks Bob. Good luck the rest of the yr.
Oct 5, 2015, 2:03 PM
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nm
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All-TigerNet [14488]
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Thanks bob, hope to see you in the playoffs!***
Oct 5, 2015, 2:09 PM
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Orange Blooded [2680]
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Re: Congratulations to Clemson.
Oct 5, 2015, 2:13 PM
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A Dommer with class. I love it!!
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All-In [25891]
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Re: Congratulations to Clemson.
Oct 5, 2015, 2:15 PM
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Many thanks Bob. Another matchup would be the game of the year. Much luck to the Irish.
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Orange Blooded [2565]
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Thanks for the congratulations to Clemson.
Oct 5, 2015, 2:50 PM
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To Mr. Bob Rodes and other fair-minded ND fans.
Thanks for the ++ comments and realize that with the classic comeback your Irish team created--this one could have ended differently, it was a great crowd pleaser. For the weather conditions, it was a great college game.
We know ND has multiple longtime rivals on the national stage but I believe that were you playing a full ACC schedule, you would generate some very good rivalries in football--just as you are doing in the other sports. You would still have space for 4 of the national rivalry games each year which your fan base demands.
Our next two games in regular season with the Irish are to be played in South Bend, as I remember. Hoping we both can play on a dry field.
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Letterman [257]
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Re: Thanks for the congratulations to Clemson.
Oct 6, 2015, 1:56 AM
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That might happen someday, but there are reasons that get in the way. Playing Navy every year is a debt of honor from the WWII days. That won't go away unless Navy cancels it. Then there are USC and Stanford who we play every year. Then, we'd like to renew the oldest rivalry in college football outside of the Ivy League, which is Michigan. That's four, and we would still like to have an open game or two we can schedule in various areas of the country, like Texas, to help our recruiting efforts there. Not to mention traditional rivalries like MSU and Purdue. If we commit to eight games with the ACC, we'd have to give something up.
Notre Dame became independent out of necessity, when the Big 10 wouldn't let them in. This was largely due to the efforts of Fielding Yost, who didn't get along with Knute Rockne. Rockne went out and put together a season with teams from all over the country, and the program thrived. It's still thriving today, as you know.
So, while any independent team--including Notre Dame--has plenty to gain from joining a conference, Notre Dame has a lot more to lose. As it stands with the present arrangement, the ACC is guaranteed five non-conference games with a marquee opponent, which (usually) improves their SoS and brings in additional revenue and guaranteed national TV coverage of away games. Notre Dame gets an avenue into the New Year's Six bowl games and gets to participate in a conference with their other sports. I'd say that the other sports get a bit of a bump in quality from Notre Dame's participation as well. They're pretty competitive in basketball, and one of the best in lacrosse, soccer and fencing.
It's true that we would generate--and in some cases renew--some very good rivalries. It would be great to play you guys more often. But again, we'd have to give up some very good rivalries (as we have already: Michigan, MSU and Purdue went by the wayside) and start them over again. Perhaps that will happen, but there's a certain feeling of reinventing the wheel in it.
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Letterman [257]
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Re: Thanks for the congratulations to Clemson.
Oct 6, 2015, 2:05 AM
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No idea why the word "marquee" came out ####### in this post.
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Letterman [257]
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Re: Thanks for the congratulations to Clemson.
Oct 6, 2015, 2:06 AM
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Wow. Suppose I spell it markee. Will that work?
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Letterman [257]
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Re: Thanks for the congratulations to Clemson.
Oct 6, 2015, 2:07 AM
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Guess so. Must be on the dirty word list for some reason.
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Letterman [257]
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Yay! We can say "marquee" now...fixed by the webmaster
Oct 9, 2015, 11:58 AM
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I forgot that "marquee" is an HTML tag that you can use to send < marquee> annoying streams of information across a part of your webpage. We fixed it so that the blocker makes a distinction between the tag and the word.
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Orange Blooded [2683]
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Way to get things done Bob***
Oct 9, 2015, 1:26 PM
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Letterman [257]
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Re: Way to get things done Bob***
Oct 9, 2015, 1:59 PM
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I've made an entire IT career out of fussing over this sort of thing.
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Orange Blooded [2351]
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Re: Thanks for the congratulations to Clemson.
Oct 6, 2015, 4:55 PM
[ in reply to Re: Thanks for the congratulations to Clemson. ] |
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Thanks for that, Bob. I agree there are many complications for ND football joining the ACC, including geography and traditional rivalries and commitments and contracts.
Still, if we were to ever get FSU back from the beating we're about to give them, and maybe Miami and VT get back to form, ND/Clemson would be a nice rivalry in a pretty good conference.
Anyway, I thought it was a good game in bad conditions. Thanks for the sportsmanship. Good luck going forward!
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Letterman [257]
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Re: Thanks for the congratulations to Clemson.
Oct 9, 2015, 1:24 AM
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I think it would be great if we played each other more often. From the good things the fans say about each other, one has the feeling that the admins will want to as well.
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Heisman Winner [133801]
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Re: Congratulations to Clemson.
Oct 5, 2015, 2:14 PM
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Well stated.
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CU Medallion [61628]
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Were you able to come to the game?
Oct 5, 2015, 2:18 PM
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If so, I hope you had a safe trip back and were treated well by the Clemson fans. We do our best to be hospitable.
Take care, and thanks for the kind words.
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Letterman [257]
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Re: Were you able to come to the game?
Oct 6, 2015, 1:57 AM
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Thank you, so do we. I wasn't able to attend the game (I have less pull than Jesus, after all). Perhaps I'll make it to the return match.
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CU Medallion [51528]
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ND's oline is the best college oline I've ever seen.***
Oct 5, 2015, 2:18 PM
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CU Medallion [64519]
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Alot of other OL's would look great too.....
Oct 5, 2015, 2:50 PM
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if the officials would completely ignore blatent holding.
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110%er [6692]
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Re: Alot of other OL's would look great too.....
Oct 5, 2015, 9:59 PM
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There was a lot of holding, but their o-line was actually the real deal.
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Letterman [257]
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Letterman [298]
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Well, only one...
Oct 6, 2015, 3:51 PM
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And that might've been one of the more blatant holds I've ever seen...that was a flat out tackle.
Can't say it was a bad play by the LT and LG--10 yard penalty, but get to repeat down instead of what was very likely a 7-8 yard sack + QB getting hit hard + potential for fumble, etc...
I wouldn't necessarily give the zebras too much credit for throwing the hanky on that one...
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Letterman [298]
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Sorry--there was a 2nd hold
Oct 6, 2015, 3:52 PM
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but believe we declined it because it was a sack...
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Letterman [257]
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Re: Well, only one...
Oct 9, 2015, 11:43 AM
[ in reply to Well, only one... ] |
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Of course you are right. I was giving the other poster a hard time for cheapshotting the ND OL, and by extension his own team. (Which is the better team: a Clemson team that beat one of the best offensive lines in the country straight up, or a Clemson team that beat an overrated OL that only was able to hang with them because the refs ignored a bunch of holding?)
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Legend [19889]
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Let's hope both teams win the rest of them from here...
Oct 5, 2015, 2:55 PM
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...and we'd sure like to have y'all join the ACC as full members too.
GO TIGERS!!!
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Commissioner [957]
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Re: Let's hope both teams win the rest of them from here...
Oct 5, 2015, 4:31 PM
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YEP!
Win Out, ND.
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Orange Blooded [3220]
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. . . Gracious in defeat!
Oct 5, 2015, 3:51 PM
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Thank you, sir!
You could be a Tiger!
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Letterman [257]
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Re: . . . Gracious in defeat!
Oct 6, 2015, 1:59 AM
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Why, you could be a Domer too.
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Orange Blooded [3220]
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hey, someone who gets it!***
Oct 5, 2015, 4:10 PM
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Orange Blooded [3710]
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Class! Just plan class! Nice post!
Oct 5, 2015, 4:11 PM
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Take care of Stanford and USC for us!
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Letterman [257]
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Re: Class! Just plan class! Nice post!
Oct 6, 2015, 3:35 PM
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That's the plan.
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CU Guru [1806]
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You sir, are a class act. I wish continued success to your
Oct 5, 2015, 9:42 PM
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Irish as your success will continue to bolster our resume. Best of luck for the rest of the season and we hope to see you again in the playoffs!
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Letterman [257]
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Re: You sir, are a class act. I wish continued success to your
Oct 6, 2015, 2:01 AM
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Same to you all. I hope you stomp Georgia Tech in particular. They were pretty mad when we beat them, had people accusing us of lying about the type of turf we had in the stadium so they would bring the wrong shoes fer cryin out loud.
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CU Guru [1898]
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Don't worry. We "owe" GT this year and they are getting
Oct 6, 2015, 5:37 PM
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ready to be paid in full.
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110%er [6662]
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Re: You sir, are a class act. I wish continued success to your
Oct 9, 2015, 6:45 AM
[ in reply to Re: You sir, are a class act. I wish continued success to your ] |
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Whether you choose to admit it or not, the reason the ND football team is NOT in the ACC is simply....money. Cynic or not, the rest of your sports are in the ACC. Its the tv contract that is holding yall back. That and the fact that E$ecPN continually bashes the ACC as being weak. ND COULD make it stronger by joining in football, but, as I said, its money and a bit of arrogance.
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Letterman [257]
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Re: You sir, are a class act. I wish continued success to your
Oct 9, 2015, 1:50 PM
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"but, as I said, its [sic] money and a bit of arrogance." Well, no you didn't say that. You said it "is simply....money." Not the same thing.
It's a business decision, and as you say business decisions are ultimately about money. There isn't anything to "admit" unless one should be ashamed of running a business to make money. A profit motive isn't inherently shameful. Business is a tool, and like any tool, it can be used either morally or immorally. Of course, a business's controllers can be motivated by greed and use the money a business makes for immoral and dishonest purposes. But that isn't the fault of the business per se, any more than it's a chain saw's fault if it is used to cut up bodies instead of wood.
So the underlying issue in your post is whether Notre Dame is running its business honestly or not, and in particular whether they are acting honestly or not by avoiding fully joining the ACC because they stand to make more money by not doing so. I can't, personally, see any dishonesty or immorality in the present arrangement, indeed, it seems to me that the arrangement brings business advantages both to Notre Dame and the ACC as I have detailed elsewhere.
So of course money plays the main part in the decision, but there's also the ability to call their own shots. If you spend a hundred years building one of the most successful brands in a business, you're not going to alter that brand in any way except very carefully. And you're going to be even more careful handing over control of that brand to a different business entity. Suppose Notre Dame joins the ACC, and Swofford retires and Brandon takes over, and tries to get all the member schools to sell ad space at the games? Is it arrogant to be concerned about losing control of your brand? No. You lose control of your brand and you risk losing money. It's only good business.
Notre Dame might be arrogant, and they might not be. Whether or not, they aren't going to let arrogance have a role in how their business is run, because doing so would lose money. Arrogance has nothing to do with whether or not they join the ACC. That being so, they couldn't care less whether or not ESPN bashes the ACC, either. Now ND is better than the average ACC team (call me arrogant to say so if you will, but facts are facts), and when they come into town the gate receipts are higher than average too. So yes, if they play eight games with the ACC every year instead of five that would further strengthen the ACC.
But business is built on compromise. Notre Dame keeps control of their football brand and TV contracts, and gets three extra games and access to the ACC's bowl spot. They give up the ability to play for a championship and the freedom to schedule five games any way they want. The ACC gets quality additions to basketball, baseball, lacrosse, soccer and fencing and five better-than-average football games, as well as a guarantee that ND won't join any other conference for 25 years. They add one more team to the bowl mix and give up three games. Sounds like a good compromise to me, and from a business standpoint, it works well for both sides.
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110%er [6662]
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Re: You sir, are a class act. I wish continued success to your
Oct 9, 2015, 1:55 PM
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Actually, Bob, you proved my point. The only reason that keeps ND from joining the conference in football IS money. If I were the ACC Id boot the rest of the sports out, but then again, they didnt ask me.
I dont know if you are the exception or the rule with ND fans, but the 6 ND fans that sat in front of me Saturday were six of the biggest a-holes Ive encounted at a Clemson game.
In any case, see you in 2020. I can promise you I wont walk into your stadium drunk, continue to drink through the whole game, and disrespect your team or your coach. 
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Letterman [257]
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Re: You sir, are a class act. I wish continued success to your
Oct 9, 2015, 2:17 PM
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If your point is ONLY that Notre Dame won't join the conference in football because of money, then I agree with you. But that doesn't mean that Notre Dame only cares about money. Now, why would you boot the rest of the sports out? Seems to me that ND teams improve the overall quality.
As for drunken fans, I'm sorry to say that there are idiots in every fanbase, and drunkenness makes idiots out of most of us. if you see anyone drunk at Notre Dame, mention it to one of the hats and they'll boot them out. They had a serious liability issue back in the early 70's with an injury where alcohol was found to be contributory. They adopted a strict no-alcohol policy, and they quit letting people leave the stadium and come back in. I doubt there's been a game in the last 40 years where nobody has been refused entry and nobody has gotten thrown out for being hammered. So, I can pretty well promise you that as well.
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110%er [6662]
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Re: You sir, are a class act. I wish continued success to your
Oct 9, 2015, 2:33 PM
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Take the TV contract away, ND joins in football. Thats not going to happen. Its the "we control the shots with our football team, but thanks for letting the rest of our teams in the ACC" that is a little irritating. To me, it should be all or nothing. Repeating what i said, they didnt ask me what they should do. LOL
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Letterman [257]
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Re: You sir, are a class act. I wish continued success to your
Oct 9, 2015, 3:29 PM
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Ok, now I get it. I understand why that would be irritating when you look at it that way. But perhaps you could look at it a little differently. First, we gave up control of roughly half the shots with our football team. Five games out of eight is a significant commitment.
Next, Notre Dame's other teams are contributing significantly to the quality of the conference as a whole. They've done very well in basketball, lacrosse, baseball and soccer. The Notre Dame fencing team is consistently one of the best in the world, recently including an Olympic Gold Medalist, Junior and Senior World Cup winners, and Junior and Senior World Championship team members and finalists. They have won a number of NCAA championships, most recently in 2011, and in the last five years they have won more individual championships than any other school (eight; the only other ACC school to win one in that time period is Duke).
I can understand the sort of who the hell do they think they are feeling, but an all-or-nothing proposition doesn't really fit the business needs of either organization. I'd love to see us play Clemson every year, but reducing national exposure by giving up Stanford or USC or games in other big recruiting markets like Texas and Louisiana dilutes the brand and so doesn't serve either party. Diluting the brand loses money, after all. So, the reason that they aren't in all the way is risk. There's a lot of money at stake. If ND joined the ACC all the way, lost national exposure, lost recruiting opportunities in the back yards of other conferences because of that, weakened the team because of that, and wound up every year as an also-ran in the ACC, and attendance fell off, TV exposure went down, and all that, that would cost the ACC a lot of money too. As it is, the partial ACC commitment strengthens both the ND and ACC brands. ND has a clearer path to the championship, and the ACC gets a SoS bump. We're both reducing the risk that an all-or-nothing proposition would entail.
One final point. As you've said, they didn't ask you what they should do. Well, they didn't ask me either! The point is that if this is really a better deal for ND than for the ACC, then we're saying that ND out-negotiated the ACC. I doubt that. There are lots of very smart people on both sides, and my feeling is that both wanted to put a win-win scenario together. From the looks of how the ND-Clemson game went, they might very well have pulled it off. Suppose we give them the benefit of the doubt, assume that any irritation we might feel is due to a lack of acquaintance with the underlying facts of the transaction, and see what develops over the next five years. How does that sound?
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Associate AD [800]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 1944
Joined: 10/28/01
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Re: Congratulations to Clemson.
Oct 5, 2015, 9:48 PM
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Thank you for the kind words. As much as I would like to wish you good luck for the remainder of the season....I just can't because I sure don't want to have to meet the Irish again in a playoff! Have a good rest of the season!
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Oculus Spirit [93621]
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Posts: 95395
Joined: 12/25/09
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You are one of a kind, sir!***
Oct 6, 2015, 2:38 AM
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Legend [16900]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 10763
Joined: 1/25/07
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Re: Congratulations to Clemson.
Oct 6, 2015, 4:53 PM
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I've had the return trip to Notre Dame circled as a bucket list trip as soon as it was announced. See you in 2020 (knock on wood)! At least as gauged by comments on this forum, I'm one of the few Clemson fans who sees the present arrangement as a complete win-win.
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Orange Blooded [3507]
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Posts: 4149
Joined: 9/27/14
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Thanks Bob. Very classy post!
Oct 9, 2015, 11:54 AM
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I really do not see the Irish losing again this year. You guys have the best O-line I've seen in a long time.
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Letterman [257]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Thanks Bob. Very classy post!
Oct 9, 2015, 2:42 PM
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I don't think we'll lose again either. We sort of had to, to learn how not to. Better now than later. Hope you guys make it through too.
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Athletic Dir [894]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 801
Joined: 11/30/98
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Class post. Best of luck in your remaining games!
Oct 9, 2015, 4:45 PM
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I wish we played more often.
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