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Legend [17506]
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Clemson QB Position (long)
Jan 3, 2018, 9:03 PM
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There are many on T-Net who believe if you are not "all in" on KB as the best option for the Tigers at QB, you are some kind of traitor to the program, the team and the fan base. I understand that line of thought, but I am not not in lock step with that regimented belief.
I believe Clemson is the team it is today because of the tireless efforts of Dabo and his staff to recruit these fine young men and talented athletes. Dabo is a tip top recruiter - even more importantly, he is bringing the right high character young men into the university.
As for KB, I believe he was the best starting option for the team through the Louisville game. He did a fine job as an unknown quantity with limited vertical passing ability. He excelled with a limited playbook against Auburn. There is no doubt that KB knew the playbook better than his QB competition, and no doubt the team was happy to get behind their teammate of the past two years. KB used his playbook knowledge to lead the team in practices, and Dabo had found the team chemistry he had been hoping for in 2017. As the season went forward, competing coaches began to pick up on film that KB had limitations, but it mattered little as only SYR and NCSU were competitive due to Clemson's skill sets vastly exceeding the rest of the ACC. And SYR would not have been in the game if KB could walk much less run on his severely sprained ankle. KB's running, his best trait, was never the same after WF and SYR games.
I believe Clemson goes 11-3 or 12-2 this year with any of the QB's on this year's team including Johnson, Cooper and the rest. Our talent level at most positions is exceptional, and to put forth that only KB has the talent to win with this team is to disrespect the rest of the skilled players and young men on the 2017 team. UGA coached up their true frosh Jake Fromm this year (and it worked out), and Clemson coaches have the coaching chops to get any of these highly rated and talented Clemson QB's ready to play.
It was real evident throughout the Bama game, what was well-debated on T-Net all year, that KB could not survive or thrive in a passing game against a Bama defense (that was still a shadow of the 2016 Bama defense that DW & Clemson beat). It was evident that Saban, Pruitt and Bama players had zero respect in Clemson's ability to pass. As for those who say the O-Line could have stepped up more, I agree, but I also remember how many vicious hits DW took last year. This does not delegitimize Bryant's value to the program, or what he accomplished this year. But the playoff game unfortunately confirmed that it takes a Clemson QB that can consistently hit the big vertical passes to win at the highest levels.
IMHO Dabo missed an opportunity to give HJ and ZC (whoever he thought could help) some serious reps in SYR game when KB should not have been on the field and some other games (BC, VaT, WF, FSU, SC, Citadel). It's OK for this topic to be controversial. And it's OK for anyone on T-Net to express their honest opinion and still pull for all our players to win each game. I bring this up because we are not past this issue. It will be there on Day 1 of Spring practice. My preference is to play the QB's with the ability to consistently hit the big passes. Clemson will have at least two or three on the team next year. It was interesting to see the villain Urban Meyer bench starter Braxton Miller in 2015, and win the natl championship with two unknown and better passing QB's (JT Barrett & Cardale Jones). And I respect those who believe KB should be the QB because Dabo believes he should be the QB. Go Tigers!
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Orange Blooded [2479]
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Re: Clemson QB Position (long)
Jan 3, 2018, 9:08 PM
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You don't think Cooper got serious reps in the Syracuse game? Did you watch that game?
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Legend [17506]
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I watched it. He had a rough game,
Jan 3, 2018, 9:11 PM
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He also did not get a lot of practice reps with the 1st team this year. Neither did HJ.
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Legend [18407]
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Re: I watched it. He had a rough game,
Jan 3, 2018, 10:39 PM
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Not many points I can add to this that I haven’t already made before.
I’ll add one note while everyone defends KB. He was running from d most plays but the chance he had to make perhaps two big plays of the night.
1. Have no idea what that was he threw to tee but unfortunately tee had to get hurt turning into a fabulous corner and prevented the int. kB has to make that pass.
2. The play Dabo and cjs says would have been a TD- the bama dL int, KB should have been seasoned enough to slide left and up in the pocket knowing press was coming in order to make that throw.
Don’t think it was that play but it was one where Dabo chewed him and the coach when they got to the sidelines.
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110%er [5912]
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I think
Jan 3, 2018, 9:12 PM
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I agree with Jeff Bridges.
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Orange Blooded [3571]
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I thought Braxton and the backup got hurt that year?
Jan 3, 2018, 9:13 PM
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Cardale only played due to injuries???
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Legend [17506]
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Braxton was hurt by Clemson (Shuey) in bowl game
Jan 3, 2018, 9:17 PM
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He recovered by start of season but Meyer (accurately) convinced Miller his future in NFL was at WR
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Orange Blooded [3571]
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That’s right. You are correct***
Jan 3, 2018, 9:20 PM
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Orange Blooded [4378]
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Re: Braxton was hurt by Clemson (Shuey) in bowl game
Jan 3, 2018, 9:29 PM
[ in reply to Braxton was hurt by Clemson (Shuey) in bowl game ] |
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Nope. Incorrect. Braxton miller was hurt in the clemson game yes. That was the end of the 2013 season. In fall camp for the 2014 season, Miller reinjured his shoulder and was ruled out for the season. That’s why JT Barrett got his chance. Not because urban benched miller. Miller knew he was not going to be an nfl qb and switched positions his senior year.
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Trainer [48]
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Re: Clemson QB Position (long)
Jan 3, 2018, 9:14 PM
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I dont know why this is such a hot topic. KB will be our qb til he graduates and the best man outta HJ and TL will take over after. Y'all know this is how Dabo rolls.
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Orange Blooded [2273]
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Re: Clemson QB Position (long)
Jan 3, 2018, 9:23 PM
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> I dont know why this is such a hot topic. KB will be
> our qb til he graduates and the best man outta HJ and
> TL will take over after. Y'all know this is how Dabo
> rolls.
I disagree I think we will go with the best qb after the spring and fall practice. Dabo took a lot of crap for not starting DW from day one and I think he learned from it. The thing I see is that our schedule just like this year should make Bryant look good most of the season so if he starts I think he keeps the job for the year.
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Orange Blooded [2663]
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oh for crying out loud would you
Jan 3, 2018, 10:42 PM
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nincompoops give it a rest with the “dabo learned a lot by not starting Deshaun” nonsense. Deshaun broke his shoulder in Spring practice that year. He was not ready to start in the Fall. When Cole had a brain freeze in the FSU game, the staff put Deshaun in and the test was history. I’m so tired of hearing about how obvious it was that Deshaun should have been the starting qb from day one. The coaches were not sitting at practice thinking “wow, Deshaun is so much better than Cole. We know we should start him, but we’re loyal to seniors so that can’t happen.”
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Orange Blooded [3981]
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Re: Clemson QB Position (long)
Jan 3, 2018, 9:17 PM
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I agree. I respect Kelly but we have to decide what we want to be. If we want to win the ACC then KB is solid. If we want to win a National Title and not get embarrassed again by Alabama then he is not the answer. Trevor Lawrence is the best QB on the roster. There is zero question of that in my mind. I am not as positive on next year in that I know we will not win a title with Bryant under center. If we want a chance at the title Lawrence must start.
Let’s be honest Bryant was absolutely pitiful Monday. He was overwhelmed and the lights were a little too bright
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Orange Blooded [4095]
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"Trevor Lawrence is the best QB on the roster" ?
Jan 3, 2018, 9:24 PM
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I don't know about that. Right now, he is just a tall, lanky kid who plays well at the High School level. Lets see how he does once he gets 6-5, 280 lbs Student-Athlete Defensive Lineman coming after him in practice.
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Orange Blooded [3981]
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Re: "Trevor Lawrence is the best QB on the roster" ?
Jan 3, 2018, 9:35 PM
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He’s a freak
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1st Rounder [648]
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Orange Blooded [2403]
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Re: "Trevor Lawrence is the best QB on the roster" ?
Jan 3, 2018, 10:51 PM
[ in reply to "Trevor Lawrence is the best QB on the roster" ? ] |
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I'll say it again . .Trevor needs to WIN the job next spring. I am pulling for him completely, to do so. God I hope he does. But if he isn't our best option . . I hope someone pops up to take the job. Yes take the job, not have to handed to him because of no better choices. Trevor, win the dang job!
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Team Captain [499]
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Re: Clemson QB Position (long)
Jan 3, 2018, 9:31 PM
[ in reply to Re: Clemson QB Position (long) ] |
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KB did not have a real chance against Bama's D thanks to the poor job by our O line and their relentless physical play against our line,RBs and WRs! The loss was a total team loss! That said this season was awesome thanks to the commitment of all our guys to being the best they could be from our great road wins to the dominating win in ACCCG against Miami!
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All-TigerNet [10427]
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Re: Clemson QB Position (long)
Jan 3, 2018, 9:19 PM
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>IMHO Dabo missed an opportunity to give HJ and ZC (whoever he thought could help) some serious reps in SYR game when KB should not have been on the field and some other games (BC, VaT, WF, FSU, SC, Citadel).
Zerrick Cooper played the entire second half of the Syracuse with the game on the line. That's not serious reps? I believe that game illustrated how we needed Kelly Bryant to win.
In addition, Hunter Johnson did not look all that sharp after his second half appearance in the Wake Forest game (ignoring The Citadel which was a glorified scrimmage). His later appearances were all marred by poor decision making. In particular, he didn't look good at all when he came into the game against Miami.
Kelly Bryant (even with his limitations) gave us the best chance to win in my opinion, and I don't think it was even close.
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Legend [17506]
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IMHO you are completely ignoring KB getting all reps
Jan 3, 2018, 9:23 PM
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all year with first team Offense. It made life easier for the coaches. KB knew the playbook and the team backed him.
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All-TigerNet [10427]
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Re: IMHO you are completely ignoring KB getting all reps
Jan 3, 2018, 9:30 PM
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According to the coaches, Zerrick Cooper got 50% of the first team reps before the Syracuse game due to Bryant's ankle injury. In addition, both Zerrick Cooper and Hunter Johnson got first team reps while Kelly Bryant was recovering from the concussion suffered in the Syracuse game.
Furthermore, I disagree with your claim that we would have had the same record with ZC or HJ as the starter. I don't think HJ would have survived the shots that KB took during the Auburn game. We would probably have dropped 2 of our first 5 games without KB as the starter.
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Varsity [243]
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Re: IMHO you are completely ignoring KB getting all reps
Jan 3, 2018, 11:38 PM
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And that is just your opinion, other opinions differ. We will never know because he wasn’t given the chance.
Bottom line is you don’t out Bama Bama without an elite OL. We didn’t have one last year or this year nor will we have one next year. 4/5 starting OL are the daft same Omes we had last year only they had another year in the weight room and experience. They pretty much shut down our run game the last two years as well. The difference last year was an elite passing QB.
IF KB starts next year, you can take it to the bank we will win the ACC and make it to the CFP again. When we meet Bama there, we will be shut down again. Why? because KB isn’t an elite passing QB, he is a run first QB and we will not have the OL to run the ball effectively on them.
Our goal every year should be to put together a team that can beat Bama and until we get that elite OL, it takes an elite passing QB. That simply wasn’t and will no be KB.
Oh PS to your other point, getting 1st team reps one week is a far cry from the coaching staff making the decision early on that HJ would be the starter because he would be the best chance to beat Bama in the CFP and working him all year as the starter. We may have lost to Auburn as you stated in that situation but I doubt we would have lost to Syracuse and a L Auburn wouldn’t have stopped us on making the CFP.
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Team Captain [499]
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Re: Clemson QB Position (long)
Jan 3, 2018, 9:19 PM
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I don't know many QBs in the entire nation this year that could have excelled against Bama the way their D played. We could not run the ball consistently because our O line was whipped by the Tide Dline and there was not enough time to throw short and intermediate passes on a regular basis MUCH LESS for deep balls! Give KB a break-he was our BEST option this entire year!
As for next year that is not necessarily the case-may the best man win the job next year!
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Orange Blooded [2584]
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Re: Clemson QB Position (long)
Jan 3, 2018, 9:22 PM
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especially when they can take meduim and long passes off the table. OLine digressed from last year.
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Orange Blooded [2584]
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Re: Clemson QB Position (long)
Jan 3, 2018, 9:20 PM
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Dabo was going to let KB go as far as he could. Not playing HJ much at all was to TL and HJ a even match during spring ball. I just do not seeing KB starting over them. We will see after springball is complete.
Dabo going to have to make some hard changes on the offensive side not players. Offensive simple, very vanilla, and predicable.
Dabo and crew were just elated to make it to playoffs as is.
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1st Rounder [632]
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well,
Jan 3, 2018, 9:22 PM
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KB was running for his life most of the game. Had Deon caught that pass and we not have the two turnovers and penalty back to back like that, would have been a different game. Deshaun lost to bama the year before last. So I don’t think it would have mattered who was in there from our present team. Hard to pass well when all you are doing is running from talented defense all night and your guys are covered well too.
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1st Rounder [632]
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well,
Jan 3, 2018, 9:22 PM
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KB was running for his life most of the game. Had Deon caught that pass and we not have the two turnovers and penalty back to back like that, would have been a different game. Deshaun lost to bama the year before last. So I don’t think it would have mattered who was in there from our present team. Hard to pass well when all you are doing is running from talented defense all night and your guys are covered well too.
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110%er [7104]
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Good points
Jan 3, 2018, 9:23 PM
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By the NC State game it was too late for any change at QB. Win or lose, Bryant was going to be the man down the stretch. All things considered I would say this team surpassed expectations... including Bryant at QB.
Next spring we start over. Knowledge and understanding of the playbook shouldn’t be an issue for any QB currently on the roster; and Johnson should get enough reps with the 1s to give him a real shot at proving he’s the best choice. It’s probably a moot point anyway... We’ve got a QB coming in with skills comparable to what DW4 had as a true freshman.
In my opinion the chances of Bryant being the starter next season are pretty slim.
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1st Rounder [648]
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Re: Good points
Jan 3, 2018, 9:42 PM
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I agree if we run the offense of Watson not the one designed for Bryant.
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CU Guru [1736]
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Re: Clemson QB Position (long)
Jan 3, 2018, 9:32 PM
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I believe KB will start next year and he should. While I don't think he played well Monday night, he was a sitting duck in the second half and we couldn't block Bama. I think he's a pretty good passer and will only be better next year. Would love to see Hyatt come back and get action Jackson over at the other tackle spot, RT killed us Monday night.
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Orange Blooded [2848]
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Re: Clemson QB Position (long)
Jan 3, 2018, 10:32 PM
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I do not believe anyone on the team should start if they get beat out.
If a tackle comes in and beats out Big Dex so be it. Not gonna happen but you get my point.
No one is given a starting position and this goes for the QB as well. TL will not have enough knowledge of the offense to come out of spring as the starter. But it could happen late in fall camp. Now if KB somehow improves his decision making and intermediate to deep throws in the offseason he will get the nod. Personally I am excited to see what TL or Hunter could do, but I would be more excited to see KB somehow make the necessary improvements for this to be a true dual threat offense. We got time with the other guys. This is KBs last hurrah.
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Starter [361]
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Re: Clemson QB Position (long)
Jan 3, 2018, 9:40 PM
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The way Dabo SAYS he rolls is "there are no lifetime contracts." Let's take him at (and hold him to) his stated position. When HJ finished Wake with strongest backup performance of the year, while KB was walking around with a boot, it was the perfect opportunity to give HJ main practice reps and get behind him for start at Syracuse. KB could've been the backup if HJ could not perform. Would have good opportunity to get attention of D and everyone else as well. Instead, we spend the whole second half TRYING to get Z's confidence up to where Hunter's was the previous week. Big missed opportunity, but Mickey and others have gone out of way to suggest we are not entitled to have such an opinion since we didn't play in college, chose employment other than coaching and have only spent 40 plus years watching "games" rather than every practice. It only takes a few minutes watching warmups to see that Hunter has best arm on team, has fairly good confidence, and had better "body language" when on field (and especially going into Syracuse) than Z. A healthy KB was our easiest option given how great our D was, but we can't go another year getting so LITTLE out of vast array of offensive weapons. KB CAN make all the throws. Perhaps Trevor's arrival will up his game and he WILL maintain the starting role he has earned, but let's hope the staff truly DOES ensure the best QB is always on the field - no reason not to give others a shot when the starter's efforts are not successful. Unsure why Cain dropped so many balls and who knows how conversions of those could've changed things the other night and throughout the year, but if another guy's balls seem to be caught more (Hunter definitely had a couple of the nicest deep balls, in limited action), then make sure that opportunity is given and the successes rewarded. Perhaps we won't have to be so impressed by Renfrow's unbelievable grabs or silly drops if passes were just a BIT better. I hope all of the QBs stay and ensure we have proper competition and security in case of injury. May the best QB win (which should ensure we ALL win). Go Tigers!
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CU Medallion [50635]
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you are absolutely correct
Jan 3, 2018, 9:41 PM
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that was long
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Tiger Cub [14]
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Dilly Dilly.
Jan 3, 2018, 10:53 PM
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Great points made by all.
KB was the best choice this year, and yes the stage was way too big for him to Handle. Running for his life didn't help any.
KB get the start.... TL takes over..
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