Tiger Board Logo

Donor's Den General Leaderboards TNET coins™ POTD Hall of Fame Map FAQ
GIVE AN AWARD
Use your TNET coins™ to grant this post a special award!

W
50
Big Brain
90
Love it!
100
Cheers
100
Helpful
100
Made Me Smile
100
Great Idea!
150
Mind Blown
150
Caring
200
Flammable
200
Hear ye, hear ye
200
Bravo
250
Nom Nom Nom
250
Take My Coins
500
Ooo, Shiny!
700
Treasured Post!
1000

YOUR BALANCE
Are our WR's miscast somewhat at the moment?
storage This topic has been archived - replies are not allowed.
Archives - Tiger Boards Archive
add New Topic
Replies: 26
| visibility 1

Are our WR's miscast somewhat at the moment?


Oct 2, 2019, 12:33 PM

The only WR who's really having a good season at the moment is Tee Higgins...and not coincidentally, the only WR who really seems to be playing his natural position is Tee Higgins. I think injuries, numbers, and seniority are playing a role in the rest...but I think the rest of ours guys have also been out of position the first month.

First off, we've been playing Justyn Ross as a 2. He really isn't one; your 2-man is usually in the mold of Nuk Hopkins, Artavis Scott, Ray Ray McCloud, or Amari Rogers...they're either slippery as eels (like Nuk) or they're RB's with really good hands like Scott, McCloud, or Rogers, just deal it to them short and then watch DB's struggle to get them on the ground. The 2 does his damage, usually, mostly after the catch. Ross is far more of a 9-man - your big classic jump-ball-winning vertical threat - than a 2, but Rogers came into the season hurt and conventional wisdom says you want to get your best players on the field, so we switched Ross to the 2. And he's been relatively quiet there.

The other problem's the slot. We're playing outside receivers there as well. There's a lot to like about Diondre Overton...he doesn't have the speed of Higgins or Ross but he's a big, physical, jump-ball winning receiver who's particularly good in the Red Zone, and he's a devastating blocker for a WR as well, which is a big part of the slot guy's role. The problem is he's another natural 9 and you just don't see him getting the automatic separation you want from a slot. And Rogers has been fairly invisible as a slot guy as well. Keep in mind the 5-man slot has been Clemson's "money" position for years under Dabo, starting with Curtis "Mr. Third Down" Baham, and then onto Tyler Grisham, Adam Humphries, and Hunter Renfrow; we've moved the chains pretty much at will over the years because of that.

Not this year. Third and automatic hasn't been there this year. Again, you understand the coaches wanting to get a quality senior like Overton who's patiently waited his turn on the field, and because of Amari Rogers' past production you can see him getting a crack at the 5 as well. Again, you can understand - I'd have probably tried it too, since having Higgins, Ross, and Rogers on the field all on the same time sounds wonderful.

The problem is, we aren't getting the production we need out of either the 2 or 5 spots. The answer would seem obvious - to move Rogers, a natural 2 who I think is a faster version of Artavis Scott, back to his natural position...and to start a natural slot receiver in the slot.

So what's the answer at slot? Well, TJ Chase is the guy who would seem to be the natural answer there...he backed up Renfrow for the past two years and looked solid; his first two years he caught 18 balls for 3 TD's and looked like a typical Clemson slot guy - elusive, sure-handed...and almost always open. But he seems to have been pushed to the back in all this WR shuffling. He's only caught 2 balls for 12 yards thus far through five games.

Obviously, this creates a seeming logjam at the 9-spot again, since Higgins, Ross, Overton, Ngata, and Ladson are all seemingly natural (and all extremely talented!) 9-men, and you can certainly understand why the coaches shuffled, especially since we would seem to be far shorter on numbers at the 2 and 5, especially with Rogers coming back from ACL surgery. But it appears like we've got too many guys playing out of their natural positions at the moment too.

Be interesting to see if the coaches make those tweaks after the break. Because what we're doing now isn't working overly well. There is clearly massive talent at both QB and WR but the whole isn't nearly equaling the sum of its parts at the moment...which I think the coaches probably see better than any of us.

Not a criticism of the coaches, by the way. Again, injuries, roster numbers, and a desire to get the best 11 on the field caused this shuffling, but it doesn't look like we've found the right balance quite yet either.

FWIW.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up


Re: Are our WR's miscast somewhat at the moment?


Oct 2, 2019, 12:40 PM

Going into last weeks game Clemson’s offensive #s we’re at historical highs.
Literally record highs.
How can you say we are not getting the production needed?
Now if FSU game shows 21 points and no yardage then maybe .

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

It looks like our only options for the slot are


Oct 2, 2019, 12:58 PM

Rodgers, Overton and Chase. I don’t sense that we have enough confidence in Chalk or any of the other TEs over the middle... no Jordan Leggetts on the roster at this point.

Amari Rodgers seems the obvious first choice here. If the reason why we’ve been avoiding the middle of the field is that we’re trying not show too much, well... that philosophy led to a lot of three and outs and a near loss to a team that got beat by App State. Could our coaches be that foolish? No, it’s clear to me that our OCs have little faith in this offense to execute right now... and they know that our OL cannot effectively block for the run. The OL is the root of the problem IMO. If were worth half a ### we could run the ball better than App State did against UNC. That would make the middle of the field wide open, even more so than it has been heretofore.

Up until last Saturday evening we’ve been hearing about how great, how dominant this OL is. I haven’t seen it... and now that has clearly been horseshyatt. That unit has to get a LOT better between now and Oct. 12 or we’re going to lose to one of these ACC teams.

badge-donor-10yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: It looks like our only options for the slot are


Oct 2, 2019, 1:35 PM

Amari needs to stay in the 5. He seems to be the only one right now who can create separation on 5 yard routes and consistently pick up first downs a la Renfrow. My preference which doesn’t matter is more 10 personnel with a combination of Ross/Ngata running the middle of field. At this point, give me Chase or maybe Spector at the 2. Would be nice to have 2 Amaris but we don’t and Amari needs to play the reliable 3rd down role.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Are our WR's miscast somewhat at the moment?


Oct 2, 2019, 12:59 PM

Very well stated as usual.

The only thing I can find where we may differ in opinion is that I can see Ngata being that natural 2 instead of a 9.

If I'm right, then I think he and Ross and then he and Ladson will compliment each other well in the next couple of years.

The contradiction to this line of thinking however is the success we had late last season with Ross and Higgins on the field at the same time. The only difference from that time would be having a quality 5 to create more space down the field for the bigger guys.

Honestly, it would hurt Higgins production from where he has started the season, I think Higgins could handle the 2 better than Ross. Making a switch there help the offense be more diverse.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

So it's a recruiting issue? Sounds like we have a group of


Oct 2, 2019, 1:40 PM

guys who all play the same position, seems like this would have addressed during the recruiting process.

2024 white level member flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up


It sounds like we are doing on a much smaller scale what


Oct 2, 2019, 1:46 PM

the Texas, Alabamas, Nebraskas and Oklahomas of the world were doing in the days before scholarship limits. We are signing a slew of blue chip wideouts, and stockpiling them just to keep other teams from having them. We have only one football, and we will sooner or later lose one or more of these type guys to transfer because they want a full time gig.

Referring to the OP, it is hard to believe that as talented as these guys are, they cannot successfully adapt their games to play ANY WR position on the field. The slot is obviously not as easy as Hunter Renfrow made it look for 4 years.

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up


Re: It sounds like we are doing on a much smaller scale what


Oct 2, 2019, 3:54 PM

Hunter was expert at winding his way through traffic, turning on a dime and making really tough catches. Hard to find guys who have all three of those skills.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Especially as walk-ons. We hit the lottery there, much in


Oct 3, 2019, 11:05 AM

the same way we did with our Interim Coach selection a few years back. :)

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up


Re: Are our WR's miscast somewhat at the moment?


Oct 2, 2019, 1:43 PM

Our inability to recruit Ouality Tight
Ends has killed us in
My Opinion!

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Are our WR's miscast somewhat at the moment?


Oct 2, 2019, 6:34 PM


Our inability to recruit Ouality Tight
Ends has killed us in
My Opinion!



We had one opt for the military and another one suspended. I think Lay will be a monster and Galloway should be very good as well, while giving us little different type of body. Though I think we will end up on the outside looking in, we are in the running for the number 1 TE for 2019 and certainly in the mix for the number 1 TE for 2020. Some bad breaks but, I don't things should be blamed on the recruiting.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Are our WR's miscast somewhat at the moment?


Oct 2, 2019, 1:48 PM

We do not need to go deep in the bench to have productive WR.
Use Higgins , Ross and Rogers more.
Bring in Ladson and Ngata along too. I’m good with Overton as well.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up


Something seems a little off for sure with all but Higgins.


Oct 2, 2019, 2:03 PM

We seem to be in a quandary when in 11 personnel. Higgins, Ross, and Rodgers seem to be the starters, but where do they go? I personally think Rodgers fits at more than 1 position, including the slot. His quicks seem like they would work there. I also don't see why Chase and Spector don't fit well in the slot. This package will work better when one of the TEs emerges as a threat in the middle.

When we are in 10 personnel, it should not be an issue. Stick Overton/ Chase/ Ngata/ Powell/ Ladson/ Spector out there with the other 3 guys. I especially like Higgins and Ross on the same side of the field. We really seem to kill it when they are stacked. Whether it's two long routes or one running a medium in route or fully crossing the field. Seems to work well.

I look forward to seeing what they work on over the next few weeks and unleash on FSU. Amari had a big game long last year. Hope to see the deep game again this year!

2024 white level member flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Are our WR's miscast somewhat at the moment?


Oct 2, 2019, 2:13 PM

Powell, Chase and to a lesser extent Overton are all busts. Tee is balling. Ross isn’t fully healthy and playing out of position. The freshman have looked just ok but they freshman. Sean Pollard hasn’t been great at center. No threat with tight ends in the passing game unless Davis Allen comes along. Etienne is trying to hit the homer too much and not taking what’s there, and now fumble issues. Not really sold Rodgers can play the slot either. A lot of issues

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Are our WR's miscast somewhat at the moment?


Oct 2, 2019, 2:17 PM

I wish we could've had Trevion Thompson back for another year just for this reason. He was a very solid backup to Hunter and had the flexibility and experience to play all the positions. Think he could've stepped up and had quite a nice year in the slot if he had an extra year of eligibility.

Tough draw being the same year and position as Hunter all those years.

Will Swinney, anyone?

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

I somewhat agree - particularly that what we're doing isn't


Oct 2, 2019, 2:41 PM

working and some WRs are playing out of their natural position, but I think I'd try a different scheme.

I'd use either 2 or 3 TEs. If 2, one on the line and the other an H-Back. This should give us some strength in run blocking when they're both on the same side - and some measure of a short passing threat when needed.

If 3 TEs, either one on each side and one as an H-Back (or slot) or all 3 on the same side with 2 H-Backs either in side-by-side or I-formation from just outside the tackle. 3 on the same side would definitely help in the run scheme and would be a devastating threat in the passing game.

The WRs might grouse a bit since they wouldn't see as much action, but the action they did get might be more effective and the run help would make for more WR opportunities on the deep balls.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Here's an article on the 3 TE offense


Oct 2, 2019, 2:46 PM

It explains the particular advantage against Cover 2 defenses. Our biggest issue in trying to use this is the lack of receiver skills in our TEs, but we need to do something and this might work:

http://www.footballtimes.org/three-tight-ends-offensive-formation/

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Oh Good Lord no***


Oct 2, 2019, 5:20 PM



2024 white level member flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up


Why Not?***


Oct 2, 2019, 5:46 PM



flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

CM, I'll take this one. Say you have a car. Your V-6 engine


Oct 3, 2019, 11:08 AM

is underperforming. Do you yank it out, and put in an even smaller, untested four cylinder, and expect better performance?
I didn't think so.

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up


Re: Are our WR's miscast somewhat at the moment?


Oct 2, 2019, 3:06 PM

If it were my decision Powell and Overton would not see the field much more this season as both have proven to be about 50% on a catch or a drop. Ngata and Ladson should play more going forward as they are younger and more talented overall.

Would love to see Amari get some action in the slot and slide into that Hunter Renfrow role we seem to be missing so much at the moment.

This is all very "nit-picky" as the offensive statistics are practically identical to the past few years overall.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Are our WR's miscast somewhat at the moment?


Oct 2, 2019, 5:55 PM

I agree


flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Are our WR's miscast somewhat at the moment?


Oct 2, 2019, 7:34 PM

A few need to step their play up over the next seven games

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

agree esp with amari


Oct 2, 2019, 6:46 PM

hes surprisingly not someone who creates separation out of breaks well, and seems faster with the ball than without

in retrospect, this screams of a potential landing spot for tavien feaster in the slot

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Nice analysis not only best athletes on the field but best athletes for given


Oct 2, 2019, 7:21 PM

Positions in the field. I’m hoping Rodgers gets Into that position. Scott was money and agree I think Rodgers is a faster, better athlete with the same work ethic

military_donation.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

I don't understand why we aren't running 3 or 4 jet sweeps


Oct 2, 2019, 10:50 PM

with Rodgers, every game!

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Are our WR's miscast somewhat at the moment?


Oct 2, 2019, 10:48 PM

"So what's the answer at slot? Well, TJ Chase is the guy who would seem to be the natural answer there...he backed up Renfrow for the past two years and looked solid; his first two years he caught 18 balls for 3 TD's and looked like a typical Clemson slot guy - elusive, sure-handed...and almost always open. But he seems to have been pushed to the back in all this WR shuffling. He's only caught 2 balls for 12 yards thus far through five games."

Dang - somebody actually thinks highly of T J Chase like I have for a long time. He gets separation, catches the ball (if anywhere close), and seems to move the chains. Not sure why he never really gets the chance to show everyone.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Replies: 26
| visibility 1
Archives - Tiger Boards Archive
add New Topic