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Clemson Icon [27642]
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Day after the Debacle at Doak thoughts.
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Sep 3, 2024, 10:41 AM
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Bottom line is this: When it comes to predicting FSU 2024 season, you were right and I was wrong. I had no idea how bad FSU would play the first two weeks. DJU was far worse than I anticipated (or as bad as y'all told he would be) but, the entire offense and entire defense was also a disaster.
As fans of a rival, y'all should be overjoyed with the play at FSU. And, if Clemson turns it around (which I think they will) and wins this weekend by a comfortable margin, you can pile on. I know y'all have been awfully nice to me on this board and I appreciate it. But, don't let that temper your joy over the ineptness of FSU. Feel free to blast away. Don't hold back on my account.
Now, to the game at Doak.
I was surprised and disappointed after the loss in Ireland. I was shocked and resigned after last night.
I was expecting a nice rebound. I had accepted the fact that this team wasn't going to be as good as last year. But, I still thought this team was good enough to at least challenge for a trip to Charlotte.
I expected BC to load the box and dare DJ to throw the ball down the field. They did. I also expected Norvell to scheme up a passing game that took advantage of BC defense. I did not expect DJ to be as inaccurate as he was. I wasn't expecting Tom Brady or Aaron Rogers. But, I wasn't expecting Barney Fife either. And, I wasn't expecting an OL that was getting pushed around like an empty wheelbarrow.
On defense I expected FSU to load the box and dare BC to throw the ball. They did. But, BC didn't have to throw the ball. They ran right up the gut against 7 or 8 in the box. Then they threw swing passes to RBs. FSU LBs acted like they had never seen a wheel route in their lives.
FSU is supposed to have the deepest RB group they have ever had. 6 guys are supposed to be good, if not great, RB at the P4 level. FSU was touted to have "the best DL in the country."
Rushing stats:
BC 52/263 5.3 ypc
FSU 16/21 1.3 ypc
I try not to get too high or too low after a win or a loss. I was optimistic after one game. I still believed this was a very good team.
But, after 2 weeks, I think Noles will have to struggle to make a bowl game. I think Norvel is in a real battle to make sure he "doesn't lose the locker room."
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Solid Orange [1380]
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Re: Day after the Debacle at Doak thoughts.
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Sep 3, 2024, 10:44 AM
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You are an excellent fan and deserve no piling on. Thank you for you being you and even though I do not care for FSU, I respect you and your opinions.
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Associate AD [1015]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Re: Day after the Debacle at Doak thoughts.
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Sep 3, 2024, 11:26 AM
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You're a stand up guy but no one here predicted FSU would lose to GT or BC much less both. I don't think you need to make amends for much of anything. Good posters from opposing fan bases are part of the secret sauce of a good message board.
It appears it all came together for Miami and not FSU, but I think the take-away is no one could've predicted either with any certainty.
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110%er [3717]
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Re: Day after the Debacle at Doak thoughts.
Sep 4, 2024, 6:46 AM
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Miami has been predicted to be back for at least 10 years, see 58-0. FSU has been predicted to be back for 2, realistically! We feel like we have been working on it for 5 years but there are about 125 schools that would trade records with us since 2020!
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Clemson Icon [27642]
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You're not piling on me.
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Sep 3, 2024, 11:26 AM
[ in reply to Re: Day after the Debacle at Doak thoughts. ] |
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You're piling on FSU.
I'm just trying to say, don't hold back on anything you want to say about FSU because you think it will hurt my feelings. It won't.
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Dynasty Maker [3495]
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Re: You're not piling on me.
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Sep 3, 2024, 4:35 PM
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I believe this is just an example of live and die by the portal. Last year was great for FSU, but this year could get worse than it already is. I can’t imagine there is a ton of cohesion in a heavy portal-usage team, and there has to be a lot of “me first” egos. After losing 2 in row to inferior talent, Norvell has to be grasping at straws to keep that locker room together. Nothing is impossible and they could win out and possibly make the playoffs.
If they lose another, I wouldn’t be surprised if you see players start holding out for a new team next year.
With a third loss for FSU, I think the season and Norvell’s time as the HC of Florida State are done.
Live by the portal, die by the portal.
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Orange Beast [6489]
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That's a pretty good summary. Bret, i heard this and thougth i would ask...
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Sep 3, 2024, 10:47 AM
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Any truth to the fact that the FSU defensive line all got $100,000 in jewelry and are driving Lambourghini SUV's? If so what a horrible return on investment.
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Clemson Icon [27642]
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No, no truth to that.
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Sep 3, 2024, 11:27 AM
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I'm sure they are getting a nice sum from NIL agreements. But, the part about them driving Lamborghinis is false.
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Game Changer [1878]
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Re: Day after the Debacle at Doak thoughts.
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Sep 3, 2024, 10:47 AM
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The very best thing they could do is to identify who may be QB next year, and go ahead and start giving that guy meaningful playing time. If he struggles, you can always go back to DJ, but playing DJ fulltime will bring 3 or 4 more losses. You will probably real off wins in the next 3 games before we play, but DJ will struggle against a legitimate defense when Clemson arrives. He always has. In fact, I'm not sure he has ever beaten a team with a great defense.
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Rival Killer [2902]
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Re: Day after the Debacle at Doak thoughts.
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Sep 3, 2024, 11:08 AM
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My thoughts as well. Sit DJU and start playing some of the freshmen QBs and if they struggle maybe just maybe bring DJ in as back up. He may play better? Or not. BRETFSU at least we have CFB to watch.
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Clemson Icon [27642]
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A change at QB may be one step needed, but...
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Sep 3, 2024, 11:30 AM
[ in reply to Re: Day after the Debacle at Doak thoughts. ] |
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... it's gonna take a whole lot more than just that one change to stop the leaks in the boat. They are many in number.
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All-Conference [436]
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Game Day Hero [4459]
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Re: Day after the Debacle at Doak thoughts.
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Sep 3, 2024, 10:47 AM
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Clemson fans should keep quiet right now. More or less FSU and Clemson look like the same team right now. I expect Norvell to make changes quicker than Dabo does though. I'd say this year needs to be a year yall play your freshmen and younger guys to get them some expierence.
As for Clemson it's going to look alot like last year. Schematically Clemson has not evolved and wrs are not getting better out of hs. QB play is hard to judge when the wrs are so unreliable but as of now the QB is not being developed the way they should either. Not alot that can be fixed mid-season for Clemson unfortunately.
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Game Day Hero [4408]
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Middle of a season? It's been 1 game. I still think
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Sep 3, 2024, 11:16 AM
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we will have a good year and I predict we win 10 games.
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Game Day Hero [4459]
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Re: Middle of a season? It's been 1 game. I still think
Sep 3, 2024, 4:25 PM
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I'm just saying the only way to fix wr coaching requires firing a coach and replacing them in the middle of an active season. That's not going to happen and isn't feasible.
I think Clemson wins 9 games maybe 10, but is that a good year when this schedule is as soft as it is?
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Head Coach [935]
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Re: Day after the Debacle at Doak thoughts.
Sep 3, 2024, 7:39 PM
[ in reply to Re: Day after the Debacle at Doak thoughts. ] |
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Clemson had plenty to not be happy with on Saturday. There is one huge difference in the two teams so far FSU is not good at the LOS on either side of the ball. They were pushed around on both sides of the ball for the entire 8 quarters by BC and GT:
Clemson lost because UGAs playmakers made play's and Clemson did not when they were available. Williams had a couple of flash plays but that was it. You are not going to get many opportunities against UGA so you better make the most of them. This was not the Notre Dame game of a couple of years ago where Clemson got smashed at the LOS on both sides of the ball.
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Ring of Honor [22847]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Day after the Debacle at Doak thoughts.
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Sep 3, 2024, 10:48 AM
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I'm not going to pile on. I have empathy for you as you now have the DJU experience.
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Game Changer [1984]
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Re: Day after the Debacle at Doak thoughts.
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Sep 3, 2024, 10:50 AM
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Losing the locker room is a much bigger deal when the locker room is full of mercenary players that may already be thinking about their next transfer
That is one topic not discussed enough around Portal/NIL
In a way it is uncharted water still for college coaches.
Not a good way to start a season for sure.
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CU Medallion [20633]
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Re: Day after the Debacle at Doak thoughts.
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Sep 3, 2024, 10:53 AM
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If you are going to sell out to the portal then you better have the coaching that can assimilate a team quickly and get everyone on the same page. Norvell took the easy way out and tried to manufacture a team without any idea how to do a proper integration. I've seen this happen many times in my business career. Companies make a great acquisition upfront, and then fail miserable to integrate the business and it brings down the whole division. And when you use portal as much as he does, it means you have to keep repeating it every year because of the high turnover you have induced into your program. CO is another example of this.
This is why I advocate for what most of the elite programs do. Use the portal to selectively address gaps and depth. It isn't a wholesale change and you don't have significant integration issues (put another way, it doesn't change your culture like some want to believe).
It takes great coaching to meld the two and make it work. The more successful programs have figured this out and are better off for it.
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Clemson Icon [27642]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Norvell appeared to have it fugrued out...
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Sep 3, 2024, 11:32 AM
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... for the past two years. The team chemistry was great by all indications.
But, this year, it may not be so.
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CU Medallion [18975]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Part of the chemistry success in Norvell's prior seasons with such
Sep 3, 2024, 1:05 PM
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massive turnover was the leadership the team had in the locker room and on the field still. Jordan Travis was much more than just an excellent QB - he was FSU's unquestioned leader who had spent years in the program. You saw this when he was injured and the impact he continued to have in their sticking together and success, up until the bowl game when so many simply up and bolted. With that presence out of the program it's more of a mercenary mindset. Until that leadership rises up again within the ranks, it's going to be tough sledding ahead.
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National Champion [7521]
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Re: Part of the chemistry success in Norvell's prior seasons with such
Sep 4, 2024, 7:26 AM
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Jordan Travis was a difference maker at QB, much like Clemson had in Watson and Lawrence. Without that type of QB, your only hope to win a championship is to “out-Georgia” teams like Georgia. Problem is only one team can be Georgia.
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Orange Blooded [2835]
TigerPulse: 100%
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FSU playing the long game here?
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Sep 3, 2024, 10:54 AM
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Tank the football program and maybe the ACC will let them go.
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National Champion [7684]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Day after the Debacle at Doak thoughts.
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Sep 3, 2024, 10:56 AM
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Nothing but respect for you sir. I’m sure not gonna pile on. As Clemson fans, we suffered under the DJU project ourselves. He has no business in Div 1 football. And until we score our first offensive touchdown, I’m not dogging any other fan base (except the coots).
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Legend [6790]
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Re: Day after the Debacle at Doak thoughts.
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Sep 3, 2024, 10:58 AM
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The portal can be good and the portal can be bad.
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Legend [6907]
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Shocking that Norvell assessed that DJU was good***
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Sep 3, 2024, 11:02 AM
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Legend [6720]
TigerPulse: 100%
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whats up with the defense?
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Sep 3, 2024, 11:06 AM
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poor defense and bad coaching (not punting prior to BC going up 20-6) compounded problems DJ was having
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Clemson Icon [27642]
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Great question. I am at least as shocked at the poor play of ..
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Sep 3, 2024, 11:34 AM
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.... the defense as I am the offense.
I posted this last night during the game:
The DL is soft.
The LB are lost.
the DB are confused.
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National Champion [7887]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Strange time to see both FSU & Clemson struggle so mightily
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Sep 3, 2024, 11:10 AM
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at the same time.
Any Clemson fan piling on FSU is simply covering for our own Tigers inefficient play. Bland offense, yet again, with a very good defense that gets worn down trying to keep their team in the game. 4th year in a row now, and after only 1 game I see no improvement in schemes, in techniques, in moving the football down the field with regularity.
FSU looked bad against BC, but BC looked pretty darn good and for their first game they could really be a strong team this year. Who knows what can happen but the season is just getting started in a very poor way for both of our teams.
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Orange Immortal [62908]
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We will see more of this in the NIL/portal era. Teams going from great to meh.
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Sep 3, 2024, 11:11 AM
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One year a random team like GT may catch fire with portal players and a down conference, get a bye in the 12-team playoff and maybe even win it all. Then fall back to mediocrity after the portal players leave.
The above scenario could have been FSU if your QB wasn't hurt last year.
We all just have to get used to it. Doesn't mean we will like it though.
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Tiger Spirit [9495]
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Re: Day after the Debacle at Doak thoughts.
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Sep 3, 2024, 11:12 AM
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You're a good sport Bret, even when things aren't working out in your favor. Very admirable quality
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All-American [592]
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BC's RB's
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Sep 3, 2024, 11:13 AM
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BC's running backs ran violently! They were well coached.
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Ring of Honor [21924]
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Spot on for the most part, but as one of DJ's harshest critics since
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Sep 3, 2024, 11:14 AM
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his time at Clemson, he got ZERO help last night from receivers. Overall, he was still the same old DJ, but he threw a few decent balls that were dropped.
The TE was absolutely awful. He needs to see the bench right beside DJ.
Message was edited by: tmitchell27®
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Clemson Icon [27642]
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TE drops were shocking.
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Sep 3, 2024, 11:37 AM
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He has been the #1 TE for FSU because of his pass catching ability. His weakness has been in run blocking.
Maybe he spent too much time working on run blocking during the off season. 🤦♂️
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Paw Warrior [4742]
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Glenn will get his first start against Clemson
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Sep 3, 2024, 11:15 AM
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There is no way DJU lasts as the starter for three more games. And, with how poor he has played, throwing him on the field against his former team that practiced against him for two years is not a good idea.
Message was edited by: TigerNick76®
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National Champion [7199]
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Re: Day after the Debacle at Doak thoughts.
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Sep 3, 2024, 11:17 AM
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I think the FSU locker room may be shaky. That would be understandable. As the game wore on and the offense failed to score, the defense seemed to weaken. I know it was a hot humid night, but the level of "want to" and execution did not match BC, especially in the fourth quarter.
Clemson fans should take care not to feel too smug. We'll get our first glimpse of how "all in" we are this weekend. Sure hope our Tigers have recovered and slap the snot out of App St.
Message was edited by: 7Tiger7®
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National Champion [7887]
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Re: Day after the Debacle at Doak thoughts.
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Sep 3, 2024, 11:31 AM
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Same thing with Clemson. Defense battled tough for 1st half, quite admirably.
However, adjustments made by Georgia and Clemson offense continued to struggle...defense gets worn down and at some point just break down and cannot stop them any longer.
What a start to college football. Being 0-1 is one thing, but being 0-1 and not feeling too great about the season to come is another. Hoping for drastic improvements and that this team can rally around each other, go Tigers!!
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Clemson Icon [27642]
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That is my concern about Clemson.
Sep 3, 2024, 11:39 AM
[ in reply to Re: Day after the Debacle at Doak thoughts. ] |
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I expect Clemson to rebound and win the game against Appy State (who I think is better than BC) handidly.
But, I expected an easy win for FSU last night.
Sure hope I'm not wrong about both teams.
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All-American [589]
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Re: Day after the Debacle at Doak thoughts.
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Sep 3, 2024, 11:27 AM
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Brett,
Appreciate your thoughts.
I have no idea how many share this opinion, but I have no desire to take joy in anyone else’s misery, but more importantly, I believe it is in Clemson’s best interest to have a highly ranked FSU. I have never understood those who wish ill of their rivals. I want everyone on our schedule to be undefeated until they lose to us. That is what is best for Clemson. As it stands right now, we may very well go all season without another ranked opponent. That is not good for us and further supports the narrative that the ACC is weak.
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National Champion [7887]
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Feel same way, exception of the Coots & Woofies
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Sep 3, 2024, 11:32 AM
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them losing helps cheer up any day I have ever had lol
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Recruit [66]
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Re: Feel same way, exception of the Coots & Woofies
Sep 3, 2024, 12:02 PM
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How bout that Portal!! Not so good for FSU...Sweeney will be proven right and Clemson will be the beneficiary....portal players are chasing money. Clemson players are chasing titles AND a degree from Clemson. This board is massively underestimating the value of a Clemson degree....and the opportunity to play in the playoffs. It's the sweetest deal on College ball. Bar none
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TigerNet Elite [74444]
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Re: Day after the Debacle at Doak thoughts.
Sep 3, 2024, 12:39 PM
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I have been surprised how well people have run right at you. I only saw GT replay and I thought they would be better last night. For the most part last night BC blocked you and ran well too. Passing was certainly some on DJ but I also saw several drops of balls too. I think his lack of accuracy real hampers you. You never know even if the play yields an easy throw whether he can get it here.
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Rock Defender [50]
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Re: Day after the Debacle at Doak thoughts.
Sep 3, 2024, 8:52 PM
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There seemed to be numerous dropped passes when DJ was at Clemson. It’s as if he puts some strange spin on the ball or the receiver is shocked it got to them.
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All-In [10770]
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I think he's already lost the locker room. The debacle in the bowl to end last
Sep 3, 2024, 12:47 PM
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season put the every-man-for-himself (with a bit of take-my-ball-and-go-home pouting) attitude on full display.
UGA showed up to prove they should have been in the playoff. FSU quit, rather than prove they deserved to be in the playoff.
I think that has spilled over into this season...
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Paw Warrior [4816]
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Always love reading your opinions buddy.
Sep 3, 2024, 1:12 PM
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Weather the storm
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Freshman [-95]
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Re: Day after the Debacle at Doak thoughts.
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Sep 3, 2024, 2:13 PM
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Clemson is an 8 & 4 football team with a highly overpaid 2 star coaching staff. They will struggle mightily in road games as teams like that often do. Don't be so sure that FSU loses to them.
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National Champion [8096]
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Re: Day after the Debacle at Doak thoughts.
Sep 3, 2024, 4:27 PM
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Not to get too political here, but Norvell looked like Hillary on election night in 2016.
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MVP [541]
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Re: Day after the Debacle at Doak thoughts.
Sep 3, 2024, 5:05 PM
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I am actually appalled at FSU’s “performance” (?). I expected a pretty salty Dline but they haven’t been able to stop the run for 2 weeks in a row. I did not expect this much the same as I didn’t expect our men to get manhandled by GA. I could take a loss to the Dawgs as long as we were in it until the end. We weren’t. The difference between my Tigers and your Noles right now is remaining schedules. We don’t have to play Miami, Ga Tech or BC at least until ACC championship game. You guys have some tough challenges ahead! DJ is who we thought he was. I’ll be surprised if he is the starter when we meet up in a few weeks unless your HC is as hardheaded as ours!
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Orange Immortal [66484]
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Re: Day after the Debacle at Doak thoughts.
Sep 3, 2024, 8:31 PM
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Never blast you for a post or brag about outcomes of games but am pleased when any team that is predicted to be favorites over us falters early to prove those “experts” wrong. That helps our chances to make it to the ACC championship game.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [98388]
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I'm not rubbin it in no more.***
Sep 4, 2024, 12:59 AM
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Heisman Winner [80724]
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BC has always been one of those strange schools that seems to be able to run the
Sep 4, 2024, 8:09 AM
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ball, year in and year out, regardless of who the coach is. They certainly did a number up the middle on FSU. That will not be the only time they have success toting the rock this year, I think.
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Replies: 50
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